Lionel 3413 Mercury Capsule railings..? >!!

Your question made me curious, so I looked at the 3413 Mercury cars on Ebay, and around on the web a bit.

I did see some cars with square railings.

IMH, they do not have original Postwar Lionel launch platforms.

Sometimes Modern era Lionel does make improvements to Postwar parts. An example would be beefing up the window struts on #51 style switchers.
My modern era 3413 style mercury cars are packed away, so I cannot check mine right now. And I have not found a really clear picture of the recent offerings. It's my guess that the cars with the square railings have had their platforms replaced.

{update} I checked my LRRC reissue of the 3413, the railings do not appear to have been altered to me. Have they made the car again since then? {end}

As far as I know, those platforms have not been reproduced, nor have railing repair kits been made.

 Hello.. Here is a picture of a recent sale! I found three others this way? ..DANiel

In addition to my comments above, the grey seems to be too dark to me (in the picture posted by Dan)

I saw some 3413 style flats on the bay that had blue flatcars, and a darker grey launch platform. Maybe the platform is from one of them.

I agree! so far they all seemed to be darker ! BUT take a look at this you can magnify  using the tool  really looks flat and lighter!?  

I think the platform should be about the same grey as the missile cradle. The one in the lot you referenced looks darker to me.

I agree that the railings look square.

I think we need to see good photos of some of the recent issue blue based cars.

  I read before that their was two versions BUT no mention of square railings...DANiel

Just a thought. This car was reissued as part of the Conventional Classics Orbitor Set a few years ago. I've got one that's still in the box. Wonder if they changed the missle launch car for that set? I'll have to take a look. 

quote:

I read before that their was two versions BUT no mention of square railings...DANiel

I see that Tandem has it listed that way. Don't think I've ever seen a dark grey one.

I would be very surprised to learn that these platforms with the square railing are original postwar Lionel.

quote:

Just a thought. This car was reissued as part of the Conventional Classics Orbitor Set a few years ago. I've got one that's still in the box. Wonder if they changed the missle launch car for that set? I'll have to take a look. 

That would be appreciated.
They have reissued the car several times. IF Lionel (LLC) made the change, it could have been for any of them. As I poster earlier, the platform on my LRRC version seems to be the same as the original postwar car.

The orbiter set was the first remake of this car.  The rails on mine are the same as the PW.  Lionel had a limited number of replacement parts when this set came out and the sold out in a day or two.

The latest remakes seem to be the LRRC and Lionel Blue one.  Could some one just have made a railing assembly from plastic structure and painted it?  G

I would say maybe on the cutting and repainting ..but I already seen 3  in @ 30 days of looking... one guy said he had one with no LIONEL letters on the bay and says its from MADISON HARDWARE (maybe they did them)  I think its still on the bay or from complete one just don't type in the car # when looking...DAniel

I saw an unlettered 3413 car on the bay. The guy listing it has lots of parts that probably came from the Madison Hardware auction.

Madison Hardware certainly did have parts made.

IMHO, if they had those platforms made, they would have been listed in their ads, and there would probably be a lot of them around.

Found a picture of the 81723 car.

Yes I agree and the fact someone might of cut and glued though .. I do not see any, any glue makes or cuts and honestly guys with repainted railings can't hide a crack .. and to think everyone can glue for this car perfectly is hard to understand.. I really think as stated Lionel might of improved some! I think this might be a revised description of this car .. Unless found to be repo..   form someone.. DAniel

Also it makes sense for  someone  (dishonest)to find a original broken 3413 for say $20.00  and then  buy a china one spend the $80.00 and try to sale it for $350.00 or less but to have it and ask for the same amount of money is ? able..

Also I just emailed tranz they have one with two other cars on the bay now and hopefully they might confirm if they got this from a original owner or not...  It has the solid flat railings also.. 

It might be some work, but to rebuild the railings with plastic and the current glue would not be that hard, followed by a paint job.

I guess buyer beware, but I also find it hard to believe all of a sudden a bunch of new variants show up.

I have a light blue satellite car that was a fake the TCA went after.  Bought it from a member that was tasked with investigating it.  G

Just compared my original PW with orbiter and they are the same.  The more I look at this, that looks like square plastic stock assembled as a railing with a repaint.  Look at the 3rd post from the left, it is misaligned.  G

Interesting topic, as is with all PW and the remakes, reproductions, etc.

This is a pic of my original PW Mercury launch car, for comparison.

Jesse

However, the railings on the 175 Missile Launch tower did have smooth railings.

I am going to check further and see whether Lionel may have made the car platform

using the railings as utilized on the 175 tower.

Better picture, taken tonight, of the 175 tower railings.

That is the answer.  They cut the rails off flat.  If you look at the bottom of the rail it has the correct look/rivets.  But they glued a square rail in place.  A couple of the rails show signs of a joint.  This is a kit bash platform being sold.  G 

Well I got a answer from the guy selling on the bay I did not want to show his name but you guys can email with your ? with  him he seems to think its  orginal  you diecide what hes saying..

Thank you for your question. I went and grabbed this car to take a closer look an you're right, the hand railing doesn't look like normal one you see with the stanchion joints. The super structure piece doesn't appear to be a reproduction. My book makes no mention of any variation for the hand railings; however one of the web resources we use states that this car was available with a light grey super structure and a dark grey superstructure. There could be different tooling with each color. Here is a link to the information I found. http://www.tandem-associates.c...ns_3413_flat_car.htm  inz.com :::500_[#d3b9b2b36a1b4abcaa9924b88a8c3b0c#]

Yes they did, and I just so happen to know who bought them all (3) :-)

He doesn't say the railing are original, does he?
I think the seller is avoiding giving you a straight answer.

Look an Jesse's (texastrain), pictured above.
I think that is a dark one, has the normal railings.

If legitimate, why hasn't the variation been reported before?
Its only been 50 plus years since those cars were made.

IMHO, when making an Ebay purchase, if things don't turn out well, its what the seller wrote that counts, not what the buyer thinks he meant.

Yes the Jerk that didn't need them all and would not share....  Just teasing.  I really needed one of the rockets!   G

 If legitimate, why hasn't the variation been reported before?

Well I saw a 616 Santa Fe diesel with a Philips screw and a late frame stamped metal I called TCA and  Pretty sure Roger Carp back in the day they all said NO WAY today its in the book

1964 was soon to be the end of LIONEL  maybe some maintenance man for equipment found a way to squeeze a few more cars down the line while the machine was being repaired who knows.. but As much as I love theses LIONEL's sometimes love is blind and second looks are in order...

The rockets were reproduced by Chicago Line / Parts for Collectors. I am fairly certain that the molds and such to make them are now owned by Smitty. At any rate, they are available. I think they are fairly good reproductions. I have a couple of the older Chicago line ones.

The repro rockets and nose cones with chutes work better then the recently made Lionel ones!

NEW UPDATE!!!!!!!!!! 

As  quoted...

  IMHO, when making an Ebay purchase, if things don't turn out well, its what the seller wrote that counts, not what the buyer thinks he meant.

Well here what I  the Seller said! could not be any clearer by  him or her... 

quote:

 Yes, the car is Lionel postwar. K***in ***ainz.c*m :::500_[#79392f61a8734b22bab8e0098a648b35#]

Earlier you posted that he wrote "The super structure piece doesn't appear to be a reproduction."

He didn't write that the super structure appears to be original, and unrepaired.

I have to concede that every variation is not listed in the price guides. And the guides do have errors. I ran into that when I picked up a 633 diesel switcher.

However, as far as these 3413 cars go with the odd railings, I am of the opinion that the railing were repaired / replaced post-factory. I see some of the flaws that GGG mentions in an earlier post.

LOL I guess I cold email him and ask him that .

.But what I was hoping for was someone to have a dark gray one like this and SAY they bought it new! I 'm afraid we are loosing our  original train   guys that would of bought this back in the day.. Who know tomorrow at the Monroeville Greenberg show I might see another! possibly talk to some "OLD" guys...

thanks for all the input!

Till the next adventure ...DANiel

I see splices too. My bet it is rail sections cut from a damaged 197 radar platform. Someone did go through a lot of work to repair and repaint the launch platform though.

quote:

But what I was hoping for was someone to have a dark gray one like this and SAY they bought it new!  I 'm afraid we are loosing our  original train   guys that would of bought this back in the day

LOL, how do you define an original train guy? I've been doing this since 1969, and had a mint 3413, purchased new, old stock from a local hobby shop. One of those pieces I wish I'd kept.

LO I meant no disrespect ss If it helps  I'll think of you as "OLD" ..LOL

Anyways you help me figure out the 69 mainitance platform ? remember in your notes you wrote

"By the way, in the first half of the 1970's someone was making a reproduction of that platform in metal. I purchased one, and still have it around somewhere. Boy was it heavy!"

remember maybe this guy made them? just a thought  .. its does seem hared to believe someone would repro apart all that trouble and not make it look original though... Thanks again for all our input ...DAniel

quote:

remember maybe this guy made them? just a thought  .. its does seem hared to believe someone would repro apart all that trouble and not make it look original though... Thanks again for all our input ...DAniel

I was off on the date.
I purchased my metal reproduction 69 platform in July '79 through the mail from "Wagner".

I don't have any other details.

Anybody know who this was?

I assume that he made it in the material with which he was able. I have not seen another. I wonder how many he actually made.

I remember a guy in the 1970's that made repo parts in metal. He made you buy a parts catalog before he would fill any order, even if you knew already what you wanted. And he wasn't cheap even back then. From New York. I have forgot the guys name now. Seems like his first name was Chris?

quote:

I remember a guy in the 1970's that made repo parts in metal. He made you buy a parts catalog before he would fill any order, even if you knew already what you wanted. And he wasn't cheap even back then. From New York. I have forgot the guys name now. Seems like his first name was Chris?

Do you mean Chris Rossbach from Gloversville, NY? He calls his business "Restoration Train Parts". 

I was purchasing parts directly from Chris at the time. It's possible that he made them, but I didn't purchase the platform from him.

Gloversville isn't far from the Capital district, and he would often do local train shows. I don't recall whether he set up at the 2014 Empire State Plaza show. He also has some original Lionel parts, and reproduction parts made by others. I think he has stuff for all brands, not just Lionel.