Lionel 736

It sounds like there is something wrong with the E-unit.  Possibly one of the brass fingers that contacts the rotating drum, may be missing.

Try using the bypass lever and manipulating the e-unit drum to get it to go forward. That's not a permanent fix, but you should be able to run forward. 

For the permanent fix, The second neutral is not supposed to be neutral, so that is where the finger isn't contacting the drum properly.

George

A good clinic on repairing 'E' units can be seen here and here.

Larry

Just for ***** and giggles, shoot just a tiny bit of WD40 down at drum in the bottom of the E unit. ......just a tiny bit....let that sit for a moment, then cycle that pup a bunch of times and see if she’ll take off forward again....if not, take the screw out of the side of the e unit and maneuver the e unit so you can snap a pic of it down at the drum so we all can see what’s going on........Pat

I  wouldn't use WD40. You are looking at a rebuild. Tried it once. The little tabs that hold the drum in shrank into the drum and then the drum fell out of place. If the drum is really dirty you can clean it using a fiber wheel on your Dremel. I use the white 120 grit wheel followed by the 220 grit one. You must be very careful not to damage the fingers. You must make sure to apply the fiber wheel in the direction that lets the drum spin as you clean it. Do this at a slow and steady speed. If the fingers are not making good contact then a rebuild will be required.

I generally don't recommend using WD-40 on trains. For cleaning the e-unit contacts, CRC 2-26 is my preference.

And again - no WD-40 lube in the reverse unit. You need to use a product designed to clean electrical contacts that is also plastic compatible. This is available at Home Depot, is inexpensive, works great and you get enough cleaner to last for years:

https://www.homedepot.com/p/CR...er-02130-6/202262505

Get a can, spray some contact cleaner with the little plastic extension inserted into the nozzle into the area where the fingers and drum are located. Wait awhile to let the cleaner dry out, then put power to the engine. Since your reverse unit is cycling but not going through the F-N-R-N-F sequence properly, some of the fingers are either worn through or bent just enough out of shape that the fingers aren't making good contact with the drum. The drum itself may also be the problem - the metal bands can get dirty from lube, and dirt from the layout can also work onto the drum as well. 

Dan Padova posted:

It sounds like there is something wrong with the E-unit.  Possibly one of the brass fingers that contacts the rotating drum, may be missing.

I agree. That is exactly what happened to my Postwar 2065 steamer recently.

Forest posted:

I  wouldn't use WD40. You are looking at a rebuild. Tried it once. The little tabs that hold the drum in shrank into the drum and then the drum fell out of place. If the drum is really dirty you can clean it using a fiber wheel on your Dremel. I use the white 120 grit wheel followed by the 220 grit one. You must be very careful not to damage the fingers. You must make sure to apply the fiber wheel in the direction that lets the drum spin as you clean it. Do this at a slow and steady speed. If the fingers are not making good contact then a rebuild will be required.

MTN posted:

And again - no WD-40 lube in the reverse unit. You need to use a product designed to clean electrical contacts that is also plastic compatible. This is available at Home Depot, is inexpensive, works great and you get enough cleaner to last for years:

https://www.homedepot.com/p/CR...er-02130-6/202262505

Get a can, spray some contact cleaner with the little plastic extension inserted into the nozzle into the area where the fingers and drum are located. Wait awhile to let the cleaner dry out, then put power to the engine. Since your reverse unit is cycling but not going through the F-N-R-N-F sequence properly, some of the fingers are either worn through or bent just enough out of shape that the fingers aren't making good contact with the drum. The drum itself may also be the problem - the metal bands can get dirty from lube, and dirt from the layout can also work onto the drum as well. 

Wow, you guys really don’t like the ol WD products huh? .....I’m sorry for the last 40 some years I’ve never seen a drum shrink from it....I’ve never seen it harm a thing on these toys, when used properly....yes, crc 2-26 is a very good cleaner, use it myself, ....but not everybody has it in their households....but more than likely my man has a can a of WD he can certainly use as a test to see if he’s on foot or horseback.....he just wants to go forward...and reverse...it won’t hurt a darn thing to use it in this manner....if it goes, great, then clean it all up....if it don’t, then he’s looking at possibly something else.....cut the ol WD some slack...I promise....it won’t shrink your trains.....

I’ve used WD40 on 90% of my trains for the past 15 years and haven’t had problems with it. The WD didn’t do me no good this time unfortunately. 

ConductorDean posted:

I’ve used WD40 on 90% of my trains for the past 15 years and haven’t had problems with it. The WD didn’t do me no good this time unfortunately. 

I’ve never sprayed it directly on a motor...that would make a mess...

harmonyards posted:

ConductorDean posted:

I’ve used WD40 on 90% of my trains for the past 15 years and haven’t had problems with it. The WD didn’t do me no good this time unfortunately. 

I’ve never sprayed it directly on a motor...that would make a mess...

It didn’t go straight into the motor but it’s still not running. A rebuild is something I’d much rather not have to get done but that’s what it’s lookin like is next

Hold up, wait a second. I took a picture of the wrong darn thing. My mistake

Any lubricant on the e-unit will get on the drum and act like a magnet for dirt and grime. The brass on the drum will get so dirty and black that it will start acting like a resistor. When the e-unit gets hot enough, the pins on the ends of drum lose their shape, and eventually electrical contact will be lost, if the black goop on the brass doesn't make it lose contact first. Isopropyl alcohol on a Q-tip is what I use on e-units that will function and cycle o.k., but have dirty drums. Out of the 30 or so that I've rebuilt, about half needed to be taken apart and cleaned because they spent most of their lives in damp basements, while the rest had seen liberal doses of WD-40 and were a gummy mess.

So here’s the E unit picture. I have wiped the entire drum off since the photo was taken and the contacts seem to be fine.

ConductorDean posted:

harmonyards posted:

ConductorDean posted:

I’ve used WD40 on 90% of my trains for the past 15 years and haven’t had problems with it. The WD didn’t do me no good this time unfortunately. 

I’ve never sprayed it directly on a motor...that would make a mess...

It didn’t go straight into the motor but it’s still not running. A rebuild is something I’d much rather not have to get done but that’s what it’s lookin like is next

Well, then follow their advice, and I hope you get it running again....736 is a very nice locomotive.....Merry Christmas fellas, ..........Pat

Hi ConductorDean. To check for worn pivots on the e-unit drum, take a toothpick and see how much movement there is on each end. The suspect end that I always run into is the side were the black wire comes down to the fingers. This is the power wire to the drum. The other 5 distribute the power depending on the rotation of the drum. It's possible that one one of the six fingers as gotten hot enough to pull away from the drum, or maybe one of the wire leads to the fingers has broken away from it's connection.

Edit: there will be some play on the ends on a well used unit, but if the pin has shrunk to half the diameter or so of the hole, then a new drum will be needed to get the e-unit functioning properly. Once it's rebuilt, it should be good for another 50 yrs. Good Luck and Merry Christmas.

WD-40 is a cleaner and lubricant. If you don’t want oil everywhere, don’t use it. If you are just trying to clean the contracts, then CRC electronic cleaner is the right approach.

George

Just to be sure, switch the wires to the brushes to see of the problem is really an E-unit problem or a motor/chassis problem.

Everyone is saying E=unit but the motor and axle could be binding check for play in the axle.

And regular WD-40 is not a lube and will leave a residue on what you spray.

Jim 1939 posted:

Everyone is saying E=unit but the motor and axle could be binding check for play in the axle.

And regular WD-40 is not a lube and will leave a residue on what you spray.

Ok, I’ll bite, if WD 40 is not a lube, then what is it? Teach us something......

Read the label it's a rust inhibitor/ also highly flammable. 

WD-40 stands for Water Dispersant - 40th formula.

Not a lubricant at all.

Larry

Y’all need to contact their advertising dept. then.........obviously they have made a horrible mistake......

harmonyards posted:

Y’all need to contact their advertising dept. then.........obviously they have made a horrible mistake......

We've discussed this before. Let's not change the subject of this thread. WD-40 is made up mostly of aliphatic and other hydrocarbons and petroleum-based oils. The aliphatic hydrocarbons can act as a solvent and will unstick stuff and loosen rusted parts. The oils will provide some lubrication. It's probably not the best lubricant for your trains, but it has some good uses.

George

Agreed George, the thread is getting muddied up....I do hope the OP gets his 736 up and running again.........Pat

I have found this thread very informative. Like I'm sure most of us do, I have WD40, the CRC electronic cleaner, light oil for lubricating wheels sparingly, and thicker gear oil. 

What was particularly helpful for me is your opinions about WD40 and the CRC product for E Units. Thanks, folks, for sharing your opinions. I will opt, when necessary, to use CRC ptoduct on the E Unit. Arnold

Really smart train guys put me on to CRC from the start and I have never looked back. It does the job perfectly. Why on earth would you use anything else? WD-40 has some great uses, but cleaning electrical contacts without causing other problems is not one of them.

The respectful way you brothers can disagree with each other is a strong tribute to the value of this forum. Peace, joy, and Merry Christmas to you all!

Pete

Forget the WD 40 and read Rob's post. Do what he said and let us know what happened. 

David Johnston posted:

Forget the WD 40 and read Rob's post...

Once we know the problem, I can assure you that WD-40 will NOT be part of the solution.