Lionel 773 comes in for a Pittman swap ....Tales from Harmon shops

You are very fearless, my friend...

Mark in Oregon

It’s going to be interesting to see the difference in speed control with the Pittman motor versus the pull mor motor. So, this model keeps the same running gear, adding the Pittman motor, simply (so to speak) an electronic upgrade, smoke system upgrade. What model is this Lionel Hudson, is it The Century Club model? This is going to be a great hudson. Thanks for posting. Happy Railroading Everyone  

@leapinlarry posted:

It’s going to be interesting to see the difference in speed control with the Pittman motor versus the pull mor motor. So, this model keeps the same running gear, adding the Pittman motor, simply (so to speak) an electronic upgrade, smoke system upgrade. What model is this Lionel Hudson, is it The Century Club model? This is going to be a great hudson. Thanks for posting. Happy Railroading Everyone  

There is no comparison Larry. With a big Pittman like this it will run as smooth and steady as any engine out there and have at least three time the pulling power of the same engine with a Pullmor.

Pete

Pete put it in simple terms, this will be a vast improvement over the ol’ Pulmor....my theory is this: dial in the chassis with a smooth running low amp draw strong pulling Pittman, and get the gear box set up ultra smooth, and then any electronics upgrades will just be icing on the cake...guys like Pete and myself can make these things so ultra smooth, that even in conventional it’s hard to tell they’re not in command...that’s the key....then, when Command is added, the system is relaxed, not over taxed, and performs even better than expected...

in the case of Leapin Larry’s Kline Hudson, my theory is the electronics system be it TMCC, or TMCC with Kline Croop Cough ( Cruise ) has to work so hard to keep that tiny motor moving, it’s over taxed in short order....both of these current Hudson projects will be leaps and bounds over the stock OE drivelines they were built with....we just can’t leave them alone can we??.....how do we make them perform better, last longer, and do everything we want them to do, even if it’s asked to spit out wooden nickels....😉

Pat

Larry's 773 is in very good hands. Pat is a wizard at working the Pittman mod into these older Lionel Pullmor engines. He did my CSS about 2 years ago and I couldn't have been happier.

Looks like your well on your way with this mod Pat. You ever get my email?

Harmonyards...Many thanks for posting this rebuild. I have a Junker 773 on my list of things to do. Any interest (you or Larry) in selling the cast off Pullmor and/or electronics? My email is in my profile. Really enjoy your posts on on high level rebuilds.

Richard

Pat, Alex, Bruk, Pete and Norm C. - How fortunate are we to have these guys to turn to for guidance and even conversions?  What a great forum we have!  If you aren't a supporting member, I suggest you become one because I have learned a lot from all of those guys and from others on this forum.

I want to send Pat an engine to remove the smaller Timko motor that I have in it now.  Right after he repairs and touches-up a Williams E7.  If he were closer, I'd ask him to help me sort out my wiring in my MGB!

One thing that Pat mentioned above that caught my eye...conventional running.  I have always felt the command engines never ran exceptionally well conventionally.  Anyone else agree with that?

Thanks for all of the updates, Pat.

Forget about the K-Line Cruise, I'm looking at yet another K-Line Cruise Board that  went up in smoke, a common occurrence with those!  Go with the ERR Cruise Commander, you'll be glad you did!

And in my thanks to guys...I knew I would forget someone...sorry GRJ!  John has been a huge help to me and others in the past.  All you guys are rock stars in my book!

@Rppoind posted:

Harmonyards...Many thanks for posting this rebuild. I have a Junker 773 on my list of things to do. Any interest (you or Larry) in selling the cast off Pullmor and/or electronics? My email is in my profile. Really enjoy your posts on on high level rebuilds.

Richard

How many can I put you down for?....😁.......Larry Mullen wants his back for another project ( I think ) but I have dozens....

Pat

Harmonyards.....email sent

Richard

  I am amazed!   

All these posts about a very worthwhile project to take an old Lionel loco with a 1930s-era motor and make it a superb runner with a modern Pittman, and no one has said anything about destroying the "collector value" of the locomotive. Fantastic!

There may be some hope for us after all... 

@Rich Melvin posted:

  I am amazed!   

All these posts about a very worthwhile project to take an old Lionel loco with a 1930s-era motor and make it a superb runner with a modern Pittman, and no one has said anything about destroying the "collector value" of the locomotive. Fantastic!

There may be some hope for us after all... 

That’s because all of us on this page don’t put them behind glass and stare at them Rich, ...they got a job to do....hopefully I speak for everybody on this thread....We buy them to go to work!...ain’t no parade pieces....😁😁😁

Pat

Pat, I get it! I understand you guys buy your trains to run them, and I am 100% with you on that. They weren’t made to just be put on a shelf and looked at.

My amazement stems from the fact that none of the collector-types have chimed in about “destroying” this old Lionel engine.

@Rich Melvin posted:

  I am amazed!   

All these posts about a very worthwhile project to take an old Lionel loco with a 1930s-era motor and make it a superb runner with a modern Pittman, and no one has said anything about destroying the "collector value" of the locomotive. Fantastic!

There may be some hope for us after all... 

Rich, any "collector" value my stuff has is someone else's problem!

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

Rich, any "collector" value my stuff has is someone else's problem!

Exactly!....IF any of my stuff is worth anything when I wake up under the dirt, they’ll either put this crap in a museum anyways, or just scratch their heads saying “ what was he thinking??”

Pat

Awesome work!! Would you like to do my Commodore Vanderbilt for me????

@Rich Melvin posted:

Pat, I get it! I understand you guys buy your trains to run them, and I am 100% with you on that. They weren’t made to just be put on a shelf and looked at.

My amazement stems from the fact that none of the collector-types have chimed in about “destroying” this old Lionel engine.

Rich, don't worry, us collector-types are quietly watching in horror.

I'm just happy we aren't talking about a #200 Electric Express gondola from 1901. I can just imagine you operator-types painting over that crappy wood siding, chopping it up for a can motor, or maybe stapling a Cruise Commander to its belly

@GregR posted:

Rich, don't worry, us collector-types are quietly watching in horror.

You can save all of those "collectable" items, just buy them for the ridiculous prices they ask and they'll be out of our chopping hands.

The other thing that I asked Pat to do was to put the pilot wheels that are found on Lionel's PRR E6s.  I like the looks of them.  I put them on my K4 and M1a and b.

Anxious to see it when it's all finished.

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

You can save all of those "collectable" items, just buy them for the ridiculous prices they ask and they'll be out of our chopping hands.

Actually, this engine isn't really a collector's item. Looking at the original electronics with shell removed, I'm guessing it's the PWC version from 2005. Ignoring my own sarcasm, this is actually a great candidate for this upgrade. I'm just curious about the electronics. It seems like adding the ERR Cruise Commander and a Superchuffer makes sense, but what about the sound package? The tender probably already has RS 5.0 along with wireless tether. Would that get left alone? Would there be any reason to swap that out for a RS Commander?

@GregR posted:

Rich, don't worry, us collector-types are quietly watching in horror.

I'm just happy we aren't talking about a #200 Electric Express gondola from 1901. I can just imagine you operator-types painting over that crappy wood siding, chopping it up for a can motor, or maybe stapling a Cruise Commander to its belly

First off, this ain’t a postwar 773...it’s the CC remake from not so long ago....however, to keep you in cringe mode, yes, if somebody wanted me to make a 773 or even a 700E from way back when run great, then why not??.....if the goal is to have an operational smooth running machine, have at it....but to each his own buddy, static models won’t cut it on this thread....

Pat

I am discouraged.  I have an old  Lionel N&W J that I refer to as "old gowler".  I had ambitions of replacing the original Lionel motor with a can motor.  Sounds like it will be a great deal more work than I anticipated.

@Bill N posted:

I am discouraged.  I have an old  Lionel N&W J that I refer to as "old gowler".  I had ambitions of replacing the original Lionel motor with a can motor.  Sounds like it will be a great deal more work than I anticipated.

Don’t be...Frank Timko sells drop in swap motors that are suitable for what I’m guessing is a postwar 746 or an equivalent from the modern era??.....his little motors are perfect for the DIY guys with minimal tools.......

Pat

@GregR posted:

Actually, this engine isn't really a collector's item. Looking at the original electronics with shell removed, I'm guessing it's the PWC version from 2005. Ignoring my own sarcasm, this is actually a great candidate for this upgrade. I'm just curious about the electronics. It seems like adding the ERR Cruise Commander and a Superchuffer makes sense, but what about the sound package? The tender probably already has RS 5.0 along with wireless tether. Would that get left alone? Would there be any reason to swap that out for a RS Commander?

ERR is essentially TMCC so it will work with Lionel RS4 or RS5 no problem.

Pete

@Norton posted:

ERR is essentially TMCC so it will work with Lionel RS4 or RS5 no problem.

Pete

Yep, we don’t even have to open the tender up .....we’ll make the Cruise Commander work with the IR tether, and away she’ll go!...

Pat

I have done the IR tether, just had to buffer the serial data.  This little board will do the job.

No 9434 Pittman? Weak .

Here’s an update on Larry # 2’s Hudson,...tonight, we fitted the chassis  with the Pittman to the boiler....the original mounting points are no bueno, so they must go...Lionel must have known I was coming along, so they provided me with plenty of meat to make really nice new mounting points...these are counter sunk, and hidden out of view, and even obscured by the ash pan....the ash pan mounting boss is also obliterated in the fabbing process, so we’ll relocate that mounting point as well, but the ash pan still sits on the factory locating pins...now with the Pittman mounted, and the chassis firmly mounted back to the boiler, it looks like Larry # 2 has seen the worst of any fab work....she sits stock as a rock, like it should be...and the Pittman does not stick anywheres near the back head, as matter of fact, I didn’t even notice these two guys until tonight....although I need to get with Larry and see if we can get these guys evicted....they look like they’re ready to pull a pizza out of the firebox, rather than running this thing...they just a bit to clean looking....enjoy the pics....

Pat

What are your thoughts on the pilot wheels that I sent along? 

@Larry Mullen posted:

What are your thoughts on the pilot wheels that I sent along?

I haven’t given it any thought yet buddy,.first order of business was to get you past the ugly stage!..( that’s the part the collector guys go🤮) I’ll take a look at the pilot truck and all things pretty once I have this thing back up to a conventional running model on the rollers, then, we’ll look at the pilot, and whatever other mods we want to do, then we’ll add the go-go boards, and then the big boat home!.....and ehh...nevermind the pilot, what are we gonna do with the two pizzeria dudes hanging out in the cab, thinking it’s some sort of oven!...😆😆

Pat

Sounds good.  I was just curious if you thought those wheels would be better than what was on there originally.  I'll wait for your thoughts when you get to that stage.  All good! Not a huge fan of those two guys, BTW.

@harmonyards posted:

Don’t be...Frank Timko sells drop in swap motors that are suitable for what I’m guessing is a postwar 746 or an equivalent from the modern era??.....his little motors are perfect for the DIY guys with minimal tools.......

Pat

Anybody know if there is a ready conversion for the 41 US Army Switcher?  Seems like a great candidate for a drop in upgrade, but I don't really know how to approach it.   I do have some spare mth can motors, but the worm threads are the wrong hand. 

@jhz563 posted:

Anybody know if there is a ready conversion for the 41 US Army Switcher?  Seems like a great candidate for a drop in upgrade, but I don't really know how to approach it.   I do have some spare mth can motors, but the worm threads are the wrong hand.

I’ll take a look someday when I get past this current round of projects...I have dead 41 here in the shop....can’t be that hard.....the way those things are geared, I’d bet with a can motor they’d creep to the point it’d be hard to tell they’re even moving...it can happen...😉

Pat

@Larry Mullen posted:

Sounds good.  I was just curious if you thought those wheels would be better than what was on there originally.  I'll wait for your thoughts when you get to that stage.  All good! Not a huge fan of those two guys, BTW.

Good!..I’ve got a delicatessen on my layout, we’ll give them a new job, where they belong!..making hoagies....😁

Pat

@harmonyards posted:

I’ll take a look someday when I get past this current round of projects...I have dead 41 here in the shop....can’t be that hard.....the way those things are geared, I’d bet with a can motor they’d creep to the point it’d be hard to tell they’re even moving...it can happen...😉

Pat

Sweet!  In the meantime I will continue to watch your other larger projects with great interest.   The work is inspiring,  I just have been finding it difficult to get time to make any progress on my pile of projects.

@jhz563 posted:

Anybody know if there is a ready conversion for the 41 US Army Switcher?  Seems like a great candidate for a drop in upgrade, but I don't really know how to approach it.   I do have some spare mth can motors, but the worm threads are the wrong hand.

Drop Frank Timko a line at Timko Repair Depot, he can certainly do it, and he has converted several diesels for me to can motors pretty reasonably priced.  I'm sure he could come up with something.

Pat, WOW Beautiful work going on here. Larry is going to be one happy customer !

I'm actually building two older Hudson's that were originally Pullmor motors and old electronics. They were already fitted with Timko can motor's and i took over from there. They will eventually have newer electronics with fan driven smoke units, super chuffer's, and chuff generator's.

Thanks, Alex

One thing evident in the picture above showing the motor install, the motor is well positioned. Great workmanship, looks like this 773 will be a great pulling performer. Although I’ve always been a fan of Lionels 773, (having owned a 1950 version) I’ve been blown away with the TMCC K-Line Hudson body and the add on detailing. These Hudson’s, revamped with quality installed Pittman motors are sure to be excellent pullers and with the new smoke units, sound boards, Chuffer units, ERR sound and 4 chuffs per revolution, simply awesome locomotives. Instead of shelf queens, they will be layout kings.  Thank You Harmonyards, wonderful craftsmanship. Larry Mullen, we are very blessed to see our steamers ready for duty. Please place some pictures of your layout on this thread so we can see where your Hudson’s going to run. Happy Railroading Everyone.