I purchased a new in the box turbine set from 1984. On the outside of the locomotive box, there is a label at the right rear bottom corner of the bottom of the box that says "Made and litho in U.S.A." I assume it covers up "made in Mexico" . The TRAINZ site says these turbines were made in Mexico. Does anyone know if some or all were made in the US?
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Most of Lionel's production had moved back to the U.S. by 1984 (one exception was the MPC Wabash Trainmaster made for Penneys - part of its overflow production was done in Mexico in April 1984). Everything was back by 1985.
While the Trainz site says the 8404s were made in Mexico, I question that. There's no indication of that in Roland LaVoie's Greenberg Guide discussions about the engine. He does mention that the previous steam engine in the Famous American Railroads series (the 8404 was in this series), which was the 8309 Southern Mikado, was supposed to be released in 1983, but wasn't released until 1984 because of delays due to Lionel's problems moving Mexican production back to the U.S. It was made before the 8404 and was made in the U.S. Actually, I've never read anything indicating that any of Lionel's diecast steam engines were ever made in Mexico.....only plastic engines. There may have been exceptions, but I've never heard of any.
Some leftover boxes Lionel used after moving back from Mexico used cover labels showing they were made in the U.S. Your engine was definitely made in the U.S. That fact alone calls into question Trainz's statement about Mexican production of the 8404. I also had an 8404 a number of years ago, and it was made in the U.S. as well.
Breezinup, thank you very much. For historical purposes, it would be interesting to know what was produced entirely, partially, and not at all in Mexico during the Mexico production years. It may be one of those areas where we find there is very little documentation, sort of like the last year of Lionel Corp production and the frist year of Fundimensions/MPC production.
For historical purposes, it would be interesting to know what was produced entirely, partially, and not at all in Mexico during the Mexico production years. It may be one of those areas where we find there is very little documentation, sort of like the last year of Lionel Corp production and the frist year of Fundimensions/MPC production.
I think that's right. Whether any records survive from that period is very questionable, and even if they do, it's doubtful there'd be any reason for their release to the public. It's possible there's a list floating around that the TCA or someone else has in their records, but I've never heard of it. You might check with the TCA museum or someone else in their organization about it if you're interested.
Federal law requires items made in other countries be labeled as such, so the only way to tell if a Lionel item was made in Mexico would be to check the box (I don't think the items themselves were stamped or labeled "Made in Mexico" then - I think that's a requirement now).
From what I've read, that whole move to Mexico episode was a debacle, poorly planned and executed. It received a lot of criticism from Lionel fans as well, who felt the product quality went down, and they didn't like the idea of Lionel products being made in Mexico in any case.
Thank you. Excellent idea to contact TCA! I will do that. Also, I have a similar understanding of the problems Lionel had with production in Mexico. I know they fell behind in their production schedule and I was relieved after they brought production back to MI.
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