Lionel/AF '94ish 6-48048 SD-9 engines won't pass over traditional AF rerailers

milwaukeeroadtrackman posted:

Hi -

In the remote part of my layout I have 4 switches with 5 AF rerailers (old track style) and these Lionel engines get hung up - mabye the rubber drive wheel??  I'd consider taking the drive one off, the non-powered one shouldn't be a problem, is there another solution?   AHHHHHH!

Try looking at the gauging of the wheels.  The Flyer re-railers rely on the center plastic portion to help coax the wheels onto the rails, and if it's too wide for the wheel/axle assembly, the car or locomotive can hang up.  Do all axles hang up, or just one?

I  have the Canadian National GP-9 from that era and it does the same thing.  On mine, it is the screws holding the sideframe assembly on.  Instead of being flush with the bottom like postwar diesels, the screw heads stick out and catch on the center of the re-railer.

MILWAUKEEROADTRACKMAN

Hi -

"In the remote part of my layout I have 4 switches with 5 AF rerailers (old track style) and these Lionel engines get hung up - mabye the rubber drive wheel??  I'd consider taking the drive one off, the non-powered one shouldn't be a problem, is there another solution?   AHHHHHH!"

FlyerMike S gauge railroading on the floor

With your permission I am going to paste this to Dave Olson. This is something Lionel may not be aware of and Dave has gotten some other matters straightened out.

Ray

sure, please post to Mr. Olson - in the meantime, I'll look at those side screws .... I have 3 DMIR engines and DMIR 44 ore cars, about  20 DMIR coal and tankers ... I'm flummoxed, I was counting on all those rerailers between the switches to keep all those wheels on the road - yes, to answer someone, the rubber wheels are wider but don't have flanges so I think they ride on the top ...

Here is a picture of my engine and the screws.  I even found ground up black plastic in the screw heads from where it has scraped across the re-railer.  

I use SHS track now, so it is no longer an issue.  Maybe normal postwar screws could be used to replace these?

Hi - yes, looks my ALL my engines.  I'm starting out with AF and am disappointed how the items I obtain seen to easily strip when removing and putting back screws - I bet flat head screws would do it and save the day ... are these they easily obtainable?  I don't suppose there's a part number for them somewhere?                    Thanks

here are my trucks - no flanges in rubber wheel so I don't think they are an issue

ignore the previous picture here is my SD-9 with 3 wheeled trucks 

milwaukeeroadtrackman posted:

Hi - yes, looks my ALL my engines.  I'm starting out with AF and am disappointed how the items I obtain seen to easily strip when removing and putting back screws - I bet flat head screws would do it and save the day ... are these they easily obtainable?  I don't suppose there's a part number for them somewhere?                    Thanks

The old Gilbert power truck used flat head screws, as does everything Lionel made using the Gilbert design before switching to vertical motors. 

To be effective there has to be a corresponding counter-sink in the cover plate. (which Gilbert and early Lionel/Flyer had...) Otherwise, flat head screws will stick out just as far as the round head screws.

I don't have any of the current vertical motor Flyer stuff, so I don't know if the cover plates have the countersink in them.

Rusty

I have an SD-9 Commemorative diesel that has round head screws holding on the side frame assembly, and they do indeed rub on a traditional Flyer re-railer.  The re-railer has a slight ramp towards the middle of the "crossing" and slightly lifts the truck from the rails.  Is that what happens?  Do the engines simply stop, or do they refuse to move when pushed?   The sprung sliding shoes should keep in contact with the rails, though.   Looking at the side frame center, it looks like the SD-9's have a slight counter sink like the Gilbert ones, so a flat head screw may just be the cure.  I have a number of EP-5's that have flat head screws in the same location like the Gilbert ones, and they pass over the re-railer just fine.  Be sure the threads are compatible, though. 

BTW, I run SHS track and set up a few sections of Flyer track to test it out.  Good luck!

Hi - I'll try contacting Lionel - they have spare parts for this engine, maybe they have flat heads that will work

Thanks

If a flat head screw will work, it is probably metric anyway...

Marty

MILWAUKEEROADTRACKMAN

I forwarded your post to Dave Olson and just got a reply which I will paste here. 

"Looks like the problem was found to be the truck screws. This is a good catch as the Legacy PA locos are just about to go into production and use the same or similar truck style.

I spoke with Dean in service. We don’t have any replacement screws with the counter sinking. So you’d have to find the correct screw with counter-sunk head and test it.

I will make sure this doesn’t happen on any future products."

Dave Olson

Engineering Manager

6301 Performance Dr | Concord, NC 28027

(704)-454-4283 (o) | (704)-455-8940 (f)

I  do not have any of the Gilbert rerailers on my layout but figuring as Marty stated that they are most likely metric, I would measure to find the size of the screw that holds the side frame. I would then try to find a flat head screw as close to that size but not smaller, and re-tap the chassis and carefully countersink the side frame holes. This would involve a bit of work but should solve your problem with the rerailers.

Ray

Hello all -  Thanks for contacting Mr. Olson ... I'm two flavors of engineer and was in product development and manufacturing and worked with tech service. The answer "So you’d have to find the correct screw with counter-sunk head and test it" is poor, poor, poor customer service and cowardly.   How about your tech service does that?  Well, there's no money in it - just customer service - that's our world today -            Tom

Mr. Olson graciously offered to look up the screw particulars so I can contact some manufactures to find a counter sunk equivalent.

If I find one I'll provide the details to the group

Tom

I am happy to hear that Mr Olson and Lionel are more gracious than sometimes given credit for. Dave has been instrumental in attempting to get some issues with American Flyer straightened out, he is probably somewhat limited in what he may do, but seems to be interested in our concerns. It is refreshing to find a person who can hear us.

Ray

Here is the info provided by Mr. Olson - regards

M2.5x.45 – 16mm long Flat Head – steel black oxide

Here’s a link to a McMaster car part: https://www.mcmaster.com/#91294a022/=19akyn6

Hi - a good result should always be posted!    3 powered SD-9's and a dummy I made passing over AF re-rerailers  - who hoo!   Thanks for the help =

Tom