I was as happy as a kid on Christmas when UPS dropped off the Allegheny a short while ago. Put it on the layout and takes off in conventional. All my other legacy locomotives operate just fine. I'm a bit aggravated/bummed out after paying this much to have out an out of box issue. Is there anything I can check out or is this a warranty issue?
Thanks
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Does it do the same with the program switch in program? Check for continuity between your antenna (handrails) and the locomotive body for the antenna seeing ground. It will be something simple. Get back to us on this.
The run/program switch did not make a difference. 4 other Legacy units work just fine. I will check the antenna. Thank you Marty for calming me down saying it's probably a minor problem. I dread taking apart a brand new loco of this value lol. Time to break out the work bench, beer, and some working music.
Be back with an update in a few
Ok removed the shell. Unplugged antenna connector and checked each handrail wire to ground (locomotive shell). Meter shows open so that would rule out a grounded handrail antenna. I also reseated the antenna board. What would be the next step?
turn the loco upside down slide the run/p switch try it a few times
Pull the power/motor plugs from the RCMC board and re seat them. They are circled. If no luck at that point, look under the run/program switch for a broken wire or bad solder joint. It does happen. From there, have a second beer then check continuity on connector 691-CN10-007 to where each wire goes. I am headed to the work bench myself and will look at thin in about an hour.
Always check the motor wires to be sure nothing is touching something it should not touch.
Did you try the engine in conventional? The engine will run in conventional with the radio board removed.
fastman posted:turn the loco upside down slide the run/p switch try it a few times
Been done already. Still no luck. But you did just make a lightbulb go off and I can check continuity between the wires on the contacts when the switch is moved, just to verify the switch is operating properly. The smoke switch was apart when received the loco. Had to crimp that back together.
Right on disconnect the switch completely.
So this time instead of an immediate shut down when it started to take off I figured give it a try in conventional. Only goes forward. No neutral or reverse when using direction switch or lever to break power to track. Everything else is fine, lights, bell, whistle, smoke, ash pan glow etc. Just no response to Legacy signal
Marty Fitzhenry posted:Pull the power/motor plugs from the RCMC board and re seat them. They are circled. If no luck at that point, look under the run/program switch for a broken wire or bad solder joint. It does happen. From there, have a second beer then check continuity on connector 691-CN10-007 to where each wire goes. I am headed to the work bench myself and will look at thin in about an hour.
Always check the motor wires to be sure nothing is touching something it should not touch.
Did you try the engine in conventional? The engine will run in conventional with the radio board removed.
Run/program switch is working fine. I removed the 691-CN10-007 connector and put my meter across the gray and black wires that goes to the switch. I cycled the switch multiple times and it read open in the run position and closed in the program position. Going to check continuity on the rest of the wires and look for chaffing, missing insulation, blah blah blah, you know that stuff.
Marty Fitzhenry posted:Pull the power/motor plugs from the RCMC board and re seat them. They are circled. If no luck at that point, look under the run/program switch for a broken wire or bad solder joint. It does happen. From there, have a second beer then check continuity on connector 691-CN10-007 to where each wire goes. I am headed to the work bench myself and will look at thin in about an hour.
Always check the motor wires to be sure nothing is touching something it should not touch.
Did you try the engine in conventional? The engine will run in conventional with the radio board removed.
Marty after going over this thing with a fine tooth comb this is the only thing I could find and it just so happens to be on the radio board. Should I go ahead and solder this pin? The leftmost one. Looks like a solder joint was missed???
That's very likely to be your problem. Be careful with those inserting it back into the RCMC, the pins are brittle and break easily.
Like john said those pins are extremely fragile. One wrong move either way and they break. Take extra care when touching this board.
Alex
I've replaced one or more pins twice now, and I haven't really worked on that many of the new Legacy units. The good news is they're standard 2.54mm spacing and common machine pins fit. 
Soldered the pin to the board. Test ran., Still stuck in forward only conventional.
Time to call Lionel.
My new Allegheny arrived miswired. Whistle steam comes out of the stack. Second $1500+ loco with this problem.
Off for a ride. 
Scrapiron Scher posted:My new Allegheny arrived miswired. Whistle steam comes out of the stack. Second $1500+ loco with this problem.
Off for a ride.
Did you add smoke fluid just to the stack or to the whistle steam hole?
You checked it all. Call Lionel. You may have a defective RCMC. I had one recently. I am lucky to have a test board to confirm.
Elliot, give the product number. Go to the RCMC and swap plugs. Plugs are in blue circle.
"Did you add smoke fluid just to the stack or to the whistle steam hole?"
Added no fluid at all. Copious smoke on startup and when whistle is pressed, plumes come out of the stack in addition to regular stack smoke. Second loco this happened to. Lionel called it a "miswire."
Scrapiron Scher posted:"Did you add smoke fluid just to the stack or to the whistle steam hole?"
Added no fluid at all. Copious smoke on startup and when whistle is pressed, plumes come out of the stack in addition to regular stack smoke. Second loco this happened to. Lionel called it a "miswire."
I'd blow down the whistle steam hole before I returned it.
Big thanks and appreciation to all that helped and especially your quick replies a day before Thanksgiving. Ok going to box her back up and ship it out to Lionel. Unfortunately this will be my 3rd steam locomotive under warranty going to Lionel within 2 weeks. Funny thing is I run my trains so seldom and not for very long run times either. Oh well with new technology comes more chances for stuff to go wrong.
Enjoy the Holiday everyone.
Hi Charlie - my error - Hi Sparky.
I would recommend calling Brasseur Electric Trains, ask for the service department. Tell them your story, see if they want warranty work. Tell them about what Marty F., said maybe the issue. Call a head, if they want the job, go for a drive to Saginaw, Michigan • See if they can do the job as you wait, still better than putting it back into the box and shipping to Lionel.
If you are going to call Lionel, ask for Dean, in the service department.
Good Luck - Gary
"I'd blow down the whistle steam hole before I returned it."
First thing I did.
trainroomgary posted:Hi Charlie - my error - Hi Sparky.
I would recommend calling Brasseur Electric Trains, ask for the service department. Tell them your story, see if they want warranty work. Tell them about what Marty F., said maybe the issue. Call a head, if they want the job, go for a drive to Saginaw, Michigan • See if they can do the job as you wait, still better than putting it back into the box and shipping to Lionel.
If you are going to call Lionel, ask for Dean, in the service department.
Good Luck - Gary
I appreciate this but that's a 700 mile drive lmao...........Now if there's a train museum in the area........
I've had good experiences with Lionel warranty dept. Very quick turn around times and usually 2 days shipping. Something I never saw yet on a new Lionel locomotive until today was the use of 4 clear plastic "pyramids" that went below the Styrofoam under the locomotive. Machine screws went up through them and physically screwed into threads on the chassis plate. Keeps it really secure and pretty much prevents any chance of wiggling around. Kudos to Lionel on this.
Hey Marty want a repair job? I have to swing by Teterboro next week lol
Sparky,
Hope Lionel gets her running for you soon. I just sent my H16-44 in to them and it was turned around in about a week.
Happy Thanksgiving!
Guys/Gals, first off, Happy Thanksgiving. This is a good post (not for Sparky74) as I have always told people to run your engine as soon as you get it. Sparky did this. Two reasons for this. If you get a Mulligan you can usually get another engine if your dealer has one and the return is on his nickle. Secondly, I have seen guys purchase engines new and never run/test them until a few years later. You know the deal with the time frame dealing with warranty.
I know this is so aggravating and this is such a beautiful Locomotive. Lionel will take Great Care of You. I could never take one of these apart as I am all thumbs. I would have to call for an Return Authorization RA. MY thinking is, does your Dealer have a Replacement, and are they local or Mail Order? Either way, it needs to go to Lionel for refinement. Marty is 100% on the money about Testing Every Engine you Buy...This is Proof of the Puddin......Good Luck and keep us informed as to how this issue gets resolved. Happy Thanksgiving.
Marty Fitzhenry posted:Guys/Gals, first off, Happy Thanksgiving. This is a good post (not for Sparky74) as I have always told people to run your engine as soon as you get it. Sparky did this. Two reasons for this. If you get a Mulligan you can usually get another engine if your dealer has one and the return is on his nickle. Secondly, I have seen guys purchase engines new and never run/test them until a few years later. You know the deal with the time frame dealing with warranty.
I can second this and not just this instance. Had a brand new MTH PS3 and the wheels would only turn on 1 truck. Opened it up to find the wire to one side of the drive motor broke off from the solder joint. That was an easy fix but as Marty said picture any kind of major issue or expensive part and you keep the loco boxed up until after the warranty expires.
I see this often.
Thanks, Marty. A lot of us learned a thing or two in this thread.
Both Lionel and MTH have had more QC issues with recent production. ::SIGH::
Quality control in this industry? Well, it's non existent really!
Had more than my share of DOA and malfunctioning very soon after after delivery locos from other manufacturers.
But I guess it's my fault!
No one is immune from the DOA syndrome. We had both a Premier MTH and a Lionel engine this week both with jammed drivers. Both are going back for replacement. New out of the box for a test run and then to the shelves. Needless to say they never made it to the shelves.
So I received my so called "repaired" Allegheny tonight. Put on track to test. PCM board was replaced. It recognizes Legacy signal and runs ok but some other things stated in my letter to Lionel seemed to be brushed over or who knows, even though a repair was stated.
I'll do a follow up later in the week or this weekend. I'm old enough and smart enough to know not to post right now. Going to let the blood pressure and frustration settle down and come back to this another time. Right now going to let it run for awhile and then start happy hour and cool off with something other than trains. I will say this..........it's going to be a long time before I put down this much $ for a locomotive again, especially from Lionel. To say that is really disappointing for me as I love both MTH and Lionel and if I had to ever choose one over the other it would be the latter.
This is why I run Postwar only. I bet a brand new 1951 F3 2343AA santa fe never had to be returned for warranty. AHA
Oh boy... this is heart breaking. Well, good news is anything can be fixed. You just need patients. BTW. I bought a ten wheeler from Lionel and had it sent back twice... they finally got it right...second repair they paid the shipping.
oldtimer posted:
This is why I run Postwar only. I bet a brand new 1951 F3 2343AA santa fe never had to be returned for warranty. AHA
oldtimer posted:
This is why I run Postwar only. I bet a brand new 1951 F3 2343AA santa fe never had to be returned for warranty. AHA
And I fell asleep after it made one time around the track .. Maybe if I blew the bike horn on it long enough I might stay awake ..
So here's my story. #1601 arrives with the box in great shape and no parts missing or broken. I put it in PGM mode and set it to #16, but no confirmation of sound or lights. I cycle the switch, try different numbers, different remotes, and two different command bases with no results. I confirm the equipment is working by reprogramming a different Legacy engine successfully. With nothing to lose, I put the C&O in Run mode and place it back on the track and power up to 18 volts. I now find I've got a conventional engine on my hands. It's too early in the day for hard liquor or even a beer; so I have lunch with iced tea instead.
I watch a replay of Seth Meyers agonizing over and making some ironically clever jokes about the president elect. I'm always amused by political humor no matter at whose expense, and I'm feeling some renewed enthusiasm for problem solving. (Anyone who tries to operate an outdoor O gauge layout must maintain high levels of enthusiasm.)
So I'm thinking what does this engine do if I call out "hey #99"? Well, this engine, along along with everything else Legacy, calls back "Melvin here" or squeal, squeal, thump, thump. Everything else is properly numbered; so, by the process of elimination lets try #1. You got it, C&O #1601 didn't get renumbered, it thinks it is still #1 from out of the box. So my bulb has now increased from a flicker to a low glow. I'll try once again to PGM it. Switch the switch to PGM, but before programming, let's first see if the station master is home. Sure enough he is, and tells me not to depart yet. Hmm, that means think before proceeding. So I've got an engine that runs fine under Legacy in either Run or PGM, but can't be programmed. So it's not switching to program mode.
I contact the dealer who refers me to Lionel service. The first level service tech isn't prepared to offer an assessment, but suggests returning it to Lionel. That I am reluctant to do considering any possible round trip damage during shipping. I ask that a new switch be sent to me so I may attempt self repair. Since management isn't available for the next several days, I am asked to write a memo stating my case (and I guess proving some level of competence).
So dear reader, as Will Durant would write, should I return or petition for parts to do a self repair? I don't want to go much deeper than a new switch on an engine that is new and under full warrantee. I need about a 75% assurance that I can handle this to make it worth the risk. But I also don't like the stories of additional problems and damage on returns that I frequently read. I have reviewed the above diagrams and comments, but I don't have any experience with the most likely prognosis.
What think yee.
I'll report back on the outcome.
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