Lionel Challenger "American Flyer" Pullman interior installed backward in car. Coupler loosened Diaphragm.

But......have you cancelled the rest of your preorders?

Just swap the couplers for Kadees. I hate that you've had so many issues with the Lionel cars, but she yourself a headache and just put on scale couplers. They look better anyway. You can leave the big coupler on the first car. 

John Rowlen posted:

  After opening the car, I found the interior was installed in the opposite direction.  The car breezeway entrance interior was at the wrong end.

If that is the case, could you not install it in the proper direction instead of sending it to the chop-shop?

Big Jim,  The interior of the Challenger "American Flyer" was simply pulled of the shelf and stuffed in the car.  It was not designed for this car body window placement.

It would be too much trouble for Lionel to make the correct interiors for each car they made.  They just slap a previous interior into the car.  It doesn't matter because nobody looks into the cars, do they?

I detail my cars with Preiser people that I hand paint.  My interiors are also painted: seats, tables, toilets.  I never paint the walls.  The new Challenger walls are a translucent ivory plastic that allows me to see the sound system on the other side of my Dining car wall.  The ivory plastic is not as opaque as the sand color used on the Union Pacific Excursion cars.  The Dome seats are the old Sand color (Left over?).  The floor molds are ivory.  They do not match.  Then again, nobody looks into the cars do they?

I added seats to my CSX "Youngstown" Pullman.  Some of the rooms were empty spaces.  I cut out seats from old NYC Empire State 21" floor pieces I bought from Lionel parts. The wood chairs a from a Ebay seller from Turkey.

The middle seats on the floor level of my Penn Central 12-4 Sleeper were facing the wrong direction.  I cut each seat out and rotated it, trimming/lowering the seat 1/8 of an inch so people lined up with the windows.  The car from the factory had no Upper Level Seating.  I built my own on this car and four 12-4 Broadway Limited cars.

Here are a few pictures of some of the 55 cars I have done since February 2018.  The Challenger seven cars will be my last.  I have done 130 Atlas O California Zephyr and Amtrak cars including the Lionel 21" passenger cars.  Add seven Challenger cars.

Merry Christmas!

Sincerely, John Rowlen

John, your work on the car interiors is great! That being said, I'm a little confused why you're hesitant to just paint the interior walls so light doesn't shine through or other simple fixes. I'm not trying to be rude or anything, it just seems like you'll bend over backwards to put great detail in the cars but get hung up on little fixable things. 

Merry Christmas all! 

Will,

The walls on the new Challenger 21" passenger cars are not opaque, but translucent, light shines through them.  Brush strokes will be seen as an uneven pattern of light and dark on/through the wall.  I plan to use electrical tape or another sheet of plastic to block out the image of the speaker and the electronics which cast shadows on the opposite side of the wall.  I have detailed 130 Lionel and Atlas O cars so far and have never had walls that let so much light shine through them..  

The walls on the new Challenger set are ivory with the ability to allow light to pass through them. The plastic would work well on a nightlight shade. The UP Excursion walls were tan.

I just discovered the second Challenger Observation has pitted paint.  It appears the car was painted with debris on it. Where there was a small pit originally, there are now many.  I will be sending the car back to Nicholas Smith Trains.  The first Observation has window damage.  Joey told me to take what I needed from the two sets to try to make one good set.

The second Baggage Car does not light and one screw was driven into the car and stripped. I cannot open the second car that does not light.  I did open the first Baggage Car to see what the rattle was. I found a loose floor screw that was stripped.  While the car was open, I detailed the interior floor with a four-color wet-mix to simulate wood slat flooring. I rummaged through my Woodland Scenics supplies and found Baggage, bicycles, and suitcases to place near the Baggage Car windows.  The floor pieces are smaller panels from the Penn Central Black Baggage Car.  Because they don't reach the end of the car, large spacers are used to raise the body on the chassis, similar to what was done to the Broadway Limited Dining Car.

I also replaced the 3/16" E-clips that were loosening. I used steel 3/16" E-clips from Home Depot.  The clips hold the trucks on the car and prevent them from falling off.

The car is drying as the glue cures.  I don't close the cars for eight hours to avoid fogging the windows with glue fumes.  I learned this when I detailed 180 Walthers HO passenger cars seven years ago.  I included some pictures of the open Baggage Car.

Sincerely, John Rowlen

John thanks for the information. Your work is fantastic.

We have six PE passenger cars under the tree now that my wife wrapped. After all the problems that are being found, we dread opening them.

Lionel Christmas presents should not be like this. We also have a DOA controller to a new LionChief plus steamer that we opened Friday for the family (42 people) to enjoy Saturday when they were here. No controller and the alternative Bluetooth wouldn’t stay connected for a lap around the layout. Horrible PR for Lionel... parents and children, all disappointed.

Bill,

That is the worst Lionel experience a family can have:  Christmas celebration and the new train does not run. The service lines wait time will be long when we call.

Have a Merry Christmas.  Candy, cookies, cocoa and threats, as long as it's something good we can eat.

Sincerely, John Rowlen

A question, do the Baggage car doors open ? If not could they be made to open ? Would be great to see your interiors.

Thanks Dean

Dean,

Unfortunately the Union Pacific Challenger, Excursion, and Penn Central Baggage Doors do not open.  The earlier C&O Baggage Car did open.

All things are possible in opening the Challenger Baggage Doors, but with a very sharp Exacto Knife.  There would be no door glides or door framing.  A strip of plastic on the floor and one above the door, could act as slide guides. I chose not to do it.

Here are a few pictures through the Baggage Car doors.  The flash of color from the inside of the car is seen as the car passes.

I am opening my first Challenger Observation next to fix the windows. The second Observation has paint damage from over-sprayed debris that fell off the car, exposing the original car body color. I am not thrilled by the poor quality control.

Sincerely, John Rowlen

John Rowlen posted:

Will,

The walls on the new Challenger 21" passenger cars are not opaque, but translucent, light shines through them.  Brush strokes will be seen as an uneven pattern of light and dark on/through the wall.  I plan to use electrical tape or another sheet of plastic to block out the image of the speaker and the electronics which cast shadows on the opposite side of the wall.  I have detailed 130 Lionel and Atlas O cars so far and have never had walls that let so much light shine through them..  

In my experience, one coat of interior paint to prevent shinethrough is never enough.  Two or three coats are usually required to do the job.

I agree.  I give my interior seats two coats of paint. White table tops in the dining car can need six coats of flat White.  Toilets take at least two coats.  If the interior is a dark plastic, it may need one more coat of paint.  I will use an opaque masking on the inside Kitchen wall along the corridor to the dining room.

I am almost done painting the interior of the Challenger Observation I repaired.  I reinstalled the windows that fell inward. One pair of side-by-side windows needed a little plastic removed so they would fit. That is probably why they were loose, pushing each other out of their openings. Seats are painted and low tables in Observation end need one more coat of Testor's Flat Red Earth.

After that I begin placing Preiser people in the Dome, then the Lower Observation.  It was a good quiet Christmas. Time to get some rest.

Sincerely, John Rowlen

I've found a coat of Testor's primer is usually enough where one or two coats of paint works. 

Will,  I find Testor's White Primer to be a worthless investment.  The white pigment content is insufficient to effect the color balance when mixing with other colors.  Flat White has more pigment and therefore covers better.  The quantity of pigment effects the outcome of mixing colors.  Testor's White Primer has very little pigment and is worthless for my painting purposes.

My local hobby shop, now closed, assured me that Flat White and White Primer were the same paint.  He was so misinformed as my experience of mixing White Primer to get pastel colors proved.  A 50% White Primer and 50% Earth Red gave me 100% Earth Red.  Very little color change occurred using White Primer.  When I told the store owner, it was news to him, but he sold me two bottles of paint before he went out-of-business.

When seeking knowledge, question the experience and credentials of the source.   Just because someone is old does not mean they are experienced.  They just happened to have survived longer.

Sincerely, John Rowlen

I use their grey primer. 

Thanks Will,  Everyone relates to their own experience. I have not used the grey primer yet.

I went to my Testor's paint supply used earlier this year on the fifty-five passenger cars and people for the cars, and the paint is mostly dried up.  I will have to go on line and re-stock, then re-mix my pastel colors.  My local hobby store, Parma Hobby, closed two years ago.

I am moving at slow pace on the Observation. I fixed the windows that fell inward, painted the seats and tables, and placed eleven people in the Dome.  The main floor will take about eighteen people more. It looks good, but my camera broke a month ago, and my camera shop went out of business, so pictures are a bit off until I buy a new camera.

I just can't wait for the Challenger cars to be finished.  The fun and excitement are not there for me this time.  Maybe the need for buying two sets of cars and repairing several cars is wearing me down.  The cars will look good when done, but I am moving as if half asleep.

Pictures of my progress are posted here.  The baggage car is finished and running smoothly.

Sincerely, John Rowlen

I know it's tedious but your hard work is paying off. I personally use Tamiya paints after the Testor's primer but that's just because that's what's most readily available to me and the cost is pretty good. 

I  use the Tamiya "Flat Flesh" on the Preiser 65602 Unpainted people. I have used their flat colors too in pastel mixes.  The flesh paint tends to gel after a month or so. The bottles stay good for half of the paint use, then deteriorate quickly.

I might just paint the seven car interiors and wait until later to place Preiser people in the cars.  The people need touch-up before I put them in the car.  Getting the cars ready for the people will not take as long.

I have been remodeling the lower level of the house for bedrooms for my mother who was in the hospital. I have too many projects running at once.  Painting the cars use to be relaxing as I watched over her late at night when she first came home.  I would be awake to help her to the bathroom in the middle of the night.  She is better now.

John,

Your patience with and detailing of them has been amazing to follow. Have you detailed the kitchen area in any of them? Have some images to share?

So could this have been considered a rare production variation?

None of the Lionel Dining Cars Kitchen Areas offer the room to detail the Kitchen.  The sound system occupies the Kitchen Area.  A wall in the Challenger Kitchen may need to be removed because the wall edge shows in the Kitchen Side Door.  I could possibly cut the legs off a Conductor or waiter to have him looking out the Kitchen Door Window.

I have detailed Atlas O Kitchen Areas in their Dining Cars. The Atlas O Dinning Cars have no sound system in them.

AUSSTEVE

This "American Flyer" is NOT a rare production variation. Both the Challenger and CSX Executive Youngstown car use this same interior.  The walls of the UP Challenger give  an accurate outside, but the factory stuck whatever floor detail they wanted in the car.  All the window edges showing  (seven and five)  drive me crazy.

All of Atlas O 10-6 Sleepers from the first run to the very last are incorrect.  The floor needs to be shifted 1/2' to align the walls to the windows.  Rather than adjust the floor molds for correct parts, Atlas O covered the 10-6 Sleeper windows where the wall edges show.  It took as much effort to cover the windows as it would have taken to correct the one half-floor piece.

Are the manufacturers selling scale models, or toy trains at the price of scale models.

Sincerely, John Rowlen