Lionel Coupler Repair

Hold the coupler upside down.
I put the rivet in part way and place the spring over it.
Then I hold the knuckle in place against the rivet, with the spring in the proper position.
Slide the rivet back out just far enough to let the knuckle inside it's pocket.
Push the rivet back in and upset the end.

Works for me.

I concur with C. W, BURFLE.
AND!  YES!  Replacing the spring, which activates the knuckle to open, is a pain!!!!!
Ralph

The hardest part is compressing the replacement spring and keeping it on the rivet while you stick the knuckle into the coupler body and push the rivet through the knuckle. Work with the coupler upside down and wedge something between the armature and the coupler so the locking pin stays out of the way. The spring will seat itself on the knuckle so while you insert the knuckle just concentrate on keeping the spring on the rivet so it doesn't launch itself into infinity. This pdf file might help a bit, too bad the drawings aren't photos...   http://pictures.olsenstoy.com/cd/mistrk%5Cmistrk3.pdf

I would strongly suggest that you buy a whole bunch of the springs. You are going to feel like you don't have enough fingers or hands, but if you're patient, it will pop in. But, the spring is under tension when the knuckle is pushed in and........."SPRONG!" ......it's absolutely gone. I hope you have long, thin fingers. LOL

Roger

If you follow the technique I tried to describe above, the body of the knuckle prevents the spring from coming off the rivet.

When you withdraw the rivet to let the knuckle enter the cavity, you only pull back the rivet enough so the body of the knuckle is gently rubbing against the end of the rivet.

The technique probably requires some practice, so extra spring are probably a good idea.
Knuckle springs and rivets are among the parts I keep on hand.
The rivets are available in black and silver. I find the black ones to be easier to upset.
For a while black rivets with a round head were available too. I am not certain whether they still are.
Lionel used all three types over the years.
If I am working on a desirable piece, I will make certain to use the correct rivet. Otherwise, I use the black ones.

After you do a couple C.W.'s way, you'll wonder why you thought it was hard.  I don't even think about it anymore, it just falls into place.

I did invest in the Brakeman's Riveter, that kit has gotten a lot of use in the last couple of years, a good investment.  I don't have the two biggest chunks of steel shown, they're specialized blocks for specific locomotive types, I didn't feel the need to have them in my kit.

Thanks for all the tips.  I'll definitely need some practice, but was successful in a reasonable amount of time.  I found this video on youtube that has a different twist to it - I'm going to give it a whirl: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6qJRSyu1baw

I also invested in a Brakeman's riveter.  Definitely a great tool.  Am having some problems getting a tight fit when doing a slide shoe - between the shoe plate and shoe...  sounds like another post.

Thanks again!

I watched the first part of the video.
There is always more than one way to get something done.
Two comments:

I often use a pair of diagonal cutters to remove the knuckle rivet too. Just be aware that if you are not careful, the cutters can mar the top of the coupler. And sometimes the head is so close to the body of the coupler, that there is no room for the jaws.

If so, just turn the coupler over, and support the coupler, leaving the rivet head clear. I use an anvil with a hole. Then drive the rivet out. If you want to drive it out just a bit to allow the use of the diagonal cutters that is fine.  Sometimes I use an 8 penny nail as a driving tool (just the tip, the body is too large). Most punches are also too large.

The grease trick is clever. However, I'd rather keep that area dry to avoid attracting dirt.

That is where I stopped the video.

Regarding the riveting of the slide shoe:
Did you get the slide shoe anvil?
If not, how are you supporting the head of the rivet?  You need something that fits into the flange to be in direct contact with the rivet head.

C.W.,

Good advice - I have used the diagonal cutters and was worried about damaging the coupler.  Is there a better way of getting the rivet out?

I do have the slide shoe anvil which is perfect.  I don't know whether this is an issue with Brakeman's Riveter (don't think so as it does get the rivet started and works great on the coupler knuckle rivet) or potentially the parts I'm using - ie: the height of the slide shoe plate, the height of the slide shoe, the length of the rivet, the hardness of the material, ???

I've been working with Carl who has been a great help - no complete success yet, but I'm making progress.  Any suggestions or tips would be helpful!

Thanks again!

On slide shoe rivets:

Since I collect toy train repair tools, I have both versions of the Brakeman's riveter, but I don't use it that much. I generally use a press.
I can tell you that I had a bad slide shoe anvil with a depression for the rivet head that was just too deep, causing loose riveting. The manufacturer replaced it, the new one was fine (not Brakeman's riveter).

f you are using the black knuckle rivets that are generally available, they are rather soft, and form very easily. The nickel ones are harder.
In either case, the slide shoe rivet is larger. You may need to increase the power of your Brakeman's Riveter tool. I think Carl or Gunrunner John could advise you better than I.

If you are buying your parts from a reputable Lionel parts dealer, the rivets should be fine.
SNAFU's do happen though. I have a few black knuckle rivets that are too long. Someday I'll pick them out of the parts drawer.

Regarding rivet removal:

I forgot to mention, a scrap of felt protects the knuckle from the anvil.
Start driving the rivet out with a nail.
Finish with the cutters, perhaps using the felt.
Or Carl may make a pin for the brakemans riveter that is small enough to drive out the rivet.

I don't always remove them the same way.

you may notice that Lionel varied the way they upset the rivet.
Some of them have a waffle pattern on the bottom.
Off the top of my head, the nail trick works on these.

As previously stated, removing the rivets is typically on a case-by-case basis.  Some come out easily, others are a PITA.  I prefer to have the rivet tool set not too heavy and just hit it several times, this allows me not to over-do anything.  This is especially true for truck rivets, once you get them too tight, there is no turning back.

As I don't have a riveting tool, I do the following.......I make a cut vertically into the end of the rivet with a Dremel carbide cutting wheel (the cheap, thin ones). Depending on the rivet, I cut down to the depth that the end of the rivet protrudes. After that, you can pretty much squeeze the rivet between the head of it on one side and the grooved end with a pair of pliers. Flattens right out.....easy.

Roger

I found a great tutorial on this at the following website - nicely done with pictures.  Thanks for all the help!

http://jwtrains.com/Tech%20Tip_2.htm

I too had issues replacing springs and rivets .. I ended up developing my own process and tools that work well for me

This might be a re-post by myself, if it is sorry

I typically use the Brakeman's Riveter for couplers.

I took gunrunnerjohn's advice 5 years ago and never looked back.  Works great!!

I am sure it does, I just put something together with the stuff I had .. works good for me