Lionel E8 is crooked!

JAMESRX,

     Are the screws that attach the shell tight on the left side of the engine? Also could a wire be caught between the shell and the frame? 

     You live in NY you could always take it to a Lionel repair store. They are on the Lionel website by state. Take it to one I am sure they can help.

Good luck I have the PRR E8s great engines.

JohnB

Can you see anything between the frame and the truck? I'm not sure if Lionel used the twist off trucks on these engines but maybe the truck is not on completely on its mount?

Doug

Thanks for your suggestions. I couldn’t find any obvious cause for the lopsidedness so I called Lionel. They pointed out that I would void the warranty if I opened the shell myself and said it is actually not an easy fix, suggesting I return it to my dealer for exchange. I was reluctant to do so because I feared I might be trading in one problem for another (the first one I bought was DOA with a drive motor issue). I considered bringing it to an authorized repair center but all of the ones near me have really awful reviews online. So I ended up bringing it back to Trainland (they are great...always do whatever they can to satisfy their customers). They exchanged it for a new one (my third try!), and when I got it home......super noisy fan driven smoke unit! So I finally gave in and sent it back to Lionel.

Does it look tilted from a rear view?

If you look for help, you might try answering any questions directed at you.  I know the answer to your situation.  Over and out.

Sorry Marty, no offense intended, but I couldn’t answer your question. I never thought to check the rear view and, as I mentioned in my final post on this, I returned it already to the dealer for an exchange. But thank you for your help and I hope I can ask your advice again in the future.

NP.

Jamesrx, you won't find a better bunch of people to help you with your O gauge locomotives; these guys have guided me through dismantling and repair and soldering of my Vision Line Big Boy - including finding micro screws that I lost.

Yes of course I agree! If you check my last post from 6/19 I say that I returned the crooked E8 to the dealer for an exchange so I figured that closed it out. As for the new engine with the noisy smoke unit ...that is still in North Carolina with Lionel.

I also wish I knew what the deal was with the crooked E8 but as I said the dealer took it back so I guess Ill never know!

Yes Rickm46 I followed your saga with great interest!

Your last update said you sent the replacement engine in. I assumed it was still at Lionel.   Keep us posted when you get it back!

JamesRx posted:

They pointed out that I would void the warranty if I opened the shell myself 

Actually this is a false statement on Lionel's part and against Federal Law.  A while back I posted a thread discussing this very subject.  Corporations cannot limit a warranty in such a way and this has been hashed out in court as well.

The 1975 Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act made it illegal for companies to force users to only repair hardware using specific components or via “authorized” resellers. While companies are not required to offer warranties, if they do offer a warranty, they aren’t allowed to void it simply because the customer has the device repaired elsewhere. Companies are allowed to require you to ship the device to them for warranty service or to return it to the store you purchased it from, but they can’t void your warranty just because you repaired an unrelated problem yourself. The Mag-Moss Act states in part:

No warrantor of a consumer product may condition his written or implied warranty of such product on the consumer’s using, in connection with such product, any article or service (other than article or service provided without charge under the terms of the warranty) which is identified by brand, trade, or corporate name.

However, stay tuned the Supreme Court might over-rule this Act.. who knows!

Hello Alan, based upon your response, you must be an attorney or a consumer advocate.  Thank you for well written post. I am a kindred spirit!  [PA Bar #53164]

There's way more to the act than that. 

My post was specifically addressing Lionel's position that opening the shell voids the warranty.  Video game console and computer manufacturers got knocked down on the same type language and even taped warnings on equipment.  They have to prove your action caused the issue that is being addressed for warranty repair.  

Can you post a copy of the Lionel position on opening up engines?   You would be amazed how many people open engines.  Many know what they are doing.  Many do not.

Marty Fitzhenry posted:

Can you post a copy of the Lionel position on opening up engines?   You would be amazed how many people open engines.  Many know what they are doing.  Many do not.

I would venture to guess that Lionel would not ever put THAT in writing! What the folks say on the phone is a completely different story, unless one records that specific phone conversation.

I imagine they say it because as Marty said there are guys out there that will try to do a repair and make matters much worse and then Lionel or whoever the manufacturer is has to clean up mess. After hearing some horror stories I can't say I blame them  

I could write a book on some of the things I have seen.   The ones that are a PITA are the people who write nasty notes.  I had several of those that had the  run program switch in program mode.     Most of the people do NOT read the book.

I wonder how many modern trains are ruined by postwar transformers.

Marty Fitzhenry posted:

I could write a book on some of the things I have seen.   The ones that are a PITA are the people who write nasty notes.  I had several of those that had the  run program switch in program mode.     Most of the people do NOT read the book.

Just to add to your thoughts Marty....

Having done the TAS smoke unit with Mike R, you'd be surprised (maybe not) on what people will use for smoke fluid.

Spend the money; buy smoke fluid!

Lou N

It was over the phone that I was told opening the shell would void the warranty. Nothing in writing. I will let you all know how it turned out when I get the engine back from Lionel. Thanks again everyone for all your help.

Lou, you are correct.

RICKO, you are correct.  I see it often,.  It is hard to believe people still hang on and use those old, under powered transformers.   The ZW was great in it's day.  So was the Ford Flathead motor.  That was then and this is now.   Lionel lovers are now very lucky to have the ZW-L.  The latest and greatest from Lionel.   I will not work on any modern train that were powered (ruined) by an old ZW.  If the customer fried the engine before, I am not putting in new electronics and have him do it again and try to dump his mistake on me.    I have seen it happen.   Yes, we all know you can protect an old transformer.  If you can live with the lesser  output, you can go that route.  

I have always wondered why someone would use a transformer that was made in the middle of the last century.  Lionel makes some great transformers today.  People should use them.  I am very happy for people entering the hobby as they have some great choices of equipment to choose from.

I always recommend a good modern transformer with any modern engine.  IT will save you a lot of grief.

I have been using a ZWL and CW80 on my legacy locos - so far, no issues.  But, with the CW80, I turn off the smoke units.

Marty Fitzhenry posted:

Lou, you are correct.

RICKO, you are correct.  I see it often,.  It is hard to believe people still hang on and use those old, under powered transformers.   The ZW was great in it's day.  So was the Ford Flathead motor.  That was then and this is now.   Lionel lovers are now very lucky to have the ZW-L.  The latest and greatest from Lionel.   I will not work on any modern train that were powered (ruined) by an old ZW.  If the customer fried the engine before, I am not putting in new electronics and have him do it again and try to dump his mistake on me.    I have seen it happen.   Yes, we all know you can protect an old transformer.  If you can live with the lesser  output, you can go that route.  

I have always wondered why someone would use a transformer that was made in the middle of the last century.  Lionel makes some great transformers today.  People should use them.  I am very happy for people entering the hobby as they have some great choices of equipment to choose from.

Marty,

I can tell you why I just purchased an old zw, cost. The rebuilt zw was $100, the fast acting breakers and the over voltage protection $30. I don't have $6-700 for a transformer. 

I am just getting back into model railroading and don't have a big budget to spend on trains, I have to make sure I buy smart. I have 2 postwar f3's, a 1990's K-line hudson, and a Railking 0-8-0. Do you think I risk frying modern engines with my transformer and circuit ptotection?

The pure arrogance that comes from some is amazing.  To the point of saying some people shouldn't even be allowed to have trains if they don't do it "your way".  This type of attitude does not help or expand the hobby, in fact it does the opposite.

BTW, for all of those against PW transformers, do any of you have any proof that modern trains are being damaged by them?  Not your opinion, feelings, or anecdotal evidence because you saw one train one time but actual evidence and proof?  Show some statistics?  You would think if this was the case then all of us with PW transformers running DCS, TMCC, and/or Legacy would be posting all of the time with all of these issues.

Proof.  Yes.  I had a derailment that took the PW ZW a few seconds to "pop" the breaker.  Fried the mother board and wiring between the pick ups.  Under normal operating conditions you'll be fine.  The transformer itself is not the issue.  It's the breakers that do not respond fast enough if you have a derailment or other short.  I don't think any one is saying do it my way or don't have trains but are relaying their experiences of using or working on modern trains where PW transformer breakers didn't respond quick enough.

Protecting the trains is important, but then there's the improved performance. I recently upgraded to a brand new Z4000, and I think the trains run better. I run both DCS and conventional, and in conventional mode, I get much smoother performance, even out of my prewar trains, and no more power surge when I push the whistle button. All the way around, it was money well-spent. 

John 

Just received my New York Central E8 back from Lionel. New smoke fan motor installed and locomotive works great now. A happy ending! Thanks everyone for you help!

So, what was causing it to sit to one side???

Marty

Didn't reread this post, but I think he returned that one and I'm ended up with another bum one....

Train Nut posted:

Didn't reread this post, but I think he returned that one and I'm ended up with another bum one....

Exactly !  Nice to know that Lionel made good on everything.

Ron

Yes I returned the crazy crooked on and the new one I received (my third...the first had a drive motor error right out of the box) had a loud buzzing which seemed to be coming from the smoke fan motor. The technician who worked on it said it might have actually been caused by some wires having their jackets poked through by the RCMC ( by the way I have no idea what that means!). They replaced the smoke fan motor as well anyway. Had the engine back in less than 2 weeks. Very impressed!