@paigetrain posted:its cool that lionel is announcing another vision engine for 2023
i hope its strasburg related in some way maybe 475?
Polar Express Vision Line....I'm waiting...30th anniversary. hmmmm
Come on up to the Springfield Mass show. The largest model train show in the world, and there is plenty of Lionel dealers to spend your money on. And, Lionel is usually there too!
@bigkid posted:The other thing to consider is attendance is still not 'normal' at York (or hasn't been), and that likely plays a role.
The problem with the attendance and the lack of vendors is that feeds on itself. More dealers and manufacturers stop going, then there is less people that will make the trip. That causes more vendors to decide not to come to the meet...
@BlueComet400 posted:Amen! However, I agree that Lionel management could have / should have chosen their words more carefully. All they needed to say is it was a business decision. There's no need to take a shot at the organization whose members volunteer countless hours to make sure the meet is a success.
On one hand, I am appreciative of the VOLUNTEER effort that is required for a successful York. It's a huge task, and they do a commendable job of coordinating everything. As the ED leadership ages, I hope that there are people willing to step up and take over. OTOH, they have made some baffling decisions in recent years and have taken forever to catch up with the times (cell phones, anyone?).
@Allan Miller posted:Definitely true! If exposing folks to trains--all scales--and the potential of engaging in model railroading as a creative hobby is the goal, Trainfest is definitely an event well worth attending. I was a "regular" there a good number of years back when I worked with Kalmbach, but I assume it is still much more of a "show" than a "meet." Both events are excellent in their respective ways.
IMO, Trainfest is the gold standard for attracting people to the train hobby. Lots of layouts in all scales. Great to see the number of families who bring children who are excited to see the trains. Well-promoted - draws tens of thousands. After a two-year hiatus due to Covid, it's scheduled to be back this year. However, due to some turmoil within the NMRA division that ran the show (I have no details, but the division disbanded), the show was sold to Kalmbach. This will be the first show under the new ownership, so it will be interesting to see how it changes.
I am not going to fault Lionel for making money. We are in different environment now.... higher cost are everywhere and businesses need to manage costs where possible to maximize returns. If their decision is based on costs or cost/customer acquisition ( CAC), they would probably reach more customers, at a lower cost, in a virtual event.
I understand the visceral experience of being at a show and seeing a major dealer. Its like walking into a car showroom or local hobby shop and feeling that sense of satisfaction.
That said, I will reserve my ultimate judgment until or if, all the facts are revealed.
@gunrunnerjohn posted:You are clearly living in an alternate reality than I am!
I don't see one or two locomotives or freight with a hundred different paint jobs as "new product announcements".
That's more product than anyone else is offering. "Leading the way" 
I agree, still waiting for something NEW never offered in O yet.
@SIRT posted:I agree, still waiting for something NEW never offered in O yet.
That's probably going to be a long wait. 
@gunrunnerjohn posted:That's probably going to be a long wait.
I would think so too. Over the last 25 years Lionel and MTH pumped out tons of different, never been done before locomotives.
What more really is there to produce that isn’t some niche locomotive? A locomotive that wouldn’t appeal to enough consumers and at a price point they’d be willing to pay to make it worth it?
That type of product seems more well suited to a manufacturer like 3rdRail. And even then 3rdRail has a tough time getting enough reservations to make production a possibility.
I’m sure we all have something that we’d love to see Lionel produce. But most of the time making it wouldn’t be a good business decision.
That’s my 2¢ anyway.
Hmmm, re: Lionel not being at October York.
I go with friends on Tuesday, spend Tuesday and Wednesday at the bandit meets, maybe Wednesday afternoon at the Pennsylvania Railroad Museum or the TCA Museum.
Thursday, Friday and Saturday walking the fairgrounds.
In all this time, if I spend 10 minutes at the Lionel booth it is a lot - even less time spent at the other manufacturers booths - I won't miss them there.
@SIRT posted:That's more product than anyone else is offering. "Leading the way"
I agree, still waiting for something NEW never offered in O yet.
me too
I'm already waiting on lionel to make an EMD Joule locomotive or the SD70J as its called
i saw the concept in a progress rail insta post and i was like man that would be a beautiful vision diecast model
and the new feature would be switching from track to battery power with onboard battery just like the prototype along with four digit addressing
Union Pacific is already buying 10 plus a few australian guys so we already have a few prototype paintschemes for lionel to do. plus i would love my railroad to have a nice Pennsy or north pole central fantasy version
the joule is beautiful and i just hope by the time lionel would make one my credit card and layout will be ready to make it the work horse of my railroad.
believe me i would run the wheels off that thing
I'm not a big Lionel fan but I always enjoyed visiting their booth to see what they have in the works.
The current MTH entity not attending, Lionel not attending, Bachmann out of the O gauge market (?), several major dealers not attending, Atlas down to a table, Bubble sheet guy attending 
- things just don't look good for the meet going forward.
I thought the Fall 2021 meet was great, this past spring, I thought it was the most disappointing York meet I've been to. And, I'm not basing it on purchases. I really don't care if I buy anything or not.
I started going to York in 2007. I sure wish it was like it was. Is it on a downslide?
Because of life changes since 2019, my wife and I have probably been to our last York meet, anyway.
But...
Re this Lionel 'thing'... My own experience with the 800# gorillas (major manufacturers) in Orange Hall, York meets, is minimal...and commonly overheard: Complaints, Whens?, and How Comes?. The response(s) to which is/are usually scripted, terse, and underwhelming.
But, then, looking at it from the gorilla's viewpoint, 'What'd you expect in showing up at a York meet?' A fresh banana? Something not already found daily in the bowels of opines/druthers/et alia on forums...like this one? A second date with Fay Wray?
Frankly, I'd get greater satisfaction from most of those interactions if I could pitch a few balls at the paddle if the chump chimp were sitting on the 'hot seat' of a carnival dunk tank.
IOW, even if I were able to resume our bi-annual pilgrimage to 'The Big Scrapple', I wouldn't miss them. My wife?...Yeah, she'd probably miss them. It was the display of pastel-colored tinplate at the MTH booth a few years ago that led to a week-after sizeable $investment$ in "fun"...her 'Easter' train.
Maybe EDTCA could raise money selling Lionel piñatas"?
KD
If I remember correctly the EDTCA show is put on by a private non-profit organization for the benefit of its members ( at a cost of $50 per year).
Typically those who squeal the loudest are not members of the Eastern Division of TCA.
It would make more sense for all the squealers to put on their own train show and run it the perfect way (like all other train shows are ran). Or have your local TCA division make their own "York" show.
Or have Lionel put on a train show. But hey they aren't even having their own special event this year.
@gunrunnerjohn posted:You are clearly living in an alternate reality than I am!
John:
You make a fair point in your second sentence, but it depends upon your perspective and how you define "new product". MTH only retained a limited number of its dies, as the rest were sold to either Lionel or ATLAS O. I think it's highly unlikely that MTH will be making new dies in the future, and they may in fact be barred from doing so under the terms of their agreements with Lionel and ATLAS O regarding any dies MTH sold to them.
For those of us who want, in a certain road name, a specific type of Premier or RailKing diesel engine or freight car that MTH continues to manufacture, through a stock or special run, that's a big deal and a "new product" from our perspective. Frankly, the number of new stock and special run products being released by MTH since it evolved into its new form has been breathtaking and exciting. In fact, it is not unusual to see a new product announcement by MTH every business day. The only downside is that my wallet has shrunk considerably because of this. 
A number of dealers who are Forum Sponsors including Mr. Muffin, Berwyn's Trains, Patrick's Trains, Stockyard Express, the Public Delivery Track and JR Junction have been leaders in sponsoring MTH special runs, and should be commended for their efforts. Some of the TCA Divisions, like METCA, have also sponsored MTH special runs. They should be commended as well.
Pat
@Frank Mulligan posted:…
Bubble sheet guy attending
…
Thank you for the laugh, it was needed.
@BenLMaggi posted:Come on up to the Springfield Mass show. The largest model train show in the world, and there is plenty of Lionel dealers to spend your money on. And, Lionel is usually there too!
Weather permitting!
As others have said, we don't really know what went on, my guess was just that. I wasn't at York in the "golden age", but things always change as time goes on. 30 years ago we were still in the frenzy of Lionel mania with Post War being the next beanie babies or whatnot ..... the show is always going to reflect the times. Three rail O gauge is in transition, and the show is going to be as well. I can't speak of the past, my first was fall of 2021, so I can't compare it to anything. There are things I liked that I missed in the last show I went to, and I let EDTCA know what I was thinking. We have people grumble that EDTCA opened the show to the public more, allowed easy guest access or that TCA opened membership up....yet if those things hadn't happened, how big would York be now? York is one of those benchmark events, but reading between the lines of what I see in TCA publications, and what I have heard from other TCA regions, is that putting on meets has become harder for all of them, it is just that York is so big and attracts people from all over we see it.
Everyone has their own standards for what attracts them to something like York, and I understand it. The people who loved seeing new products from Lionel and other vendors, or enjoyed the access to Lionel people at things like the legacy users meeting, are going to be disappointed, or people wanting to see the large dealers there and maybe find something at a better price than they could get online or whatever will be disappointed they didn't come. Like I said in another post, I enjoy it as an event and I try to take what I can out of it, even if it is a mini vacation. Have gotten to meet some neat people, share war stories of sorts, get to see trains I otherwise won't see and maybe find something interesting I can use. In the end whether I go or not (outside things beyond my control, like health, work, lack of money, etc) is if it is still enjoyable, and more importantly, at the end of the show I kind of ask myself "if the show decided to shut down after this, would I miss it?". And right now the answer is yes, I would. On the other hand to be honest, the Greenberg Shows are getting to the point where I will go if it comes around, but if it disappeared it likely wouldn't impact me that much; on the other hand First Frost/First Thaw would upset me if it disappeared.
Since Lionel doesn't wish to attend York this fall, The Great New York State Model Train Fair cordially invites Lionel, MTH and other hobby manufacturers and vendors to come to New York State!
Now in its 47th year, the show annually attracts over 6000 modelers, families and individuals. Children 15 and under are admitted free!
The pride of this show is the operating layouts of all scales and even a free miniature train ride for the kids. Second only in size the the Amherst show in the northeast, The Great NYS Model Train Fair is a welcoming show located in the largest and modern single-span building between New York City and Cleveland Ohio with 110,000 square feet of operating layouts and vendors!
We are proud to help sponsor the show financially as well support it's fundraising efforts to maintain and preserve local railroad history through non-profit museums of the Central New York Chapter, National Railway Historical Society, Inc.
@irish rifle posted:MTH only retained a limited number of its dies, as the rest were sold to either Lionel or ATLAS O.
Pat
It's interesting that folks keep perpetuating this notion that MTH only has a few tools left. This just isn't the case and is a false statement. Actually they sold a limited number of tools in O Gauge. You have things confused.
MTH still has over 70% of the tools they had in O Gauge.
It's also noteworthy that the recent high end steam released by MTH was manufactured in Korea and some of the nicest stuff I've seen in O Gauge in a while.
@irish rifle posted:You make a fair point in your second sentence, but it depends upon your perspective and how you define "new product". MTH only retained a limited number of its dies, as the rest were sold to either Lionel or ATLAS O. I think it's highly unlikely that MTH will be making new dies in the future, and they may in fact be barred from doing so under the terms of their agreements with Lionel and ATLAS O regarding any dies MTH sold to them.
Not true. It was stated several times by MTH that they retained about 80% of their O-scale tooling after the sales. The other manufacturers only bought a fraction of the O-scale tooling, where's the rest of it?
@aussteve posted:Typically those who squeal the loudest are not members of the Eastern Division of TCA.
Do you have ANY proof of this?
If there's one golden opportunity in all the nuances of this great hobby to make a point and ensure that people believe you this is it. Why should we believe your statement?
Let's be civil.
Mike
I had stated in an earlier post, that just because Lionel has announced it will not be attending the fall York meet this year, so what? The sky is not falling.
However, after reading subsequent posts in this thread, including gunrunner John's analogy, maybe the sky IS falling. 🤔
The sky is truly falling! 
OK, maybe just sagging a bit... 
@bigkid posted:As others have said, we don't really know what went on, my guess was just that. I wasn't at York in the "golden age", but things always change as time goes on. 30 years ago we were still in the frenzy of Lionel mania with Post War being the next beanie babies or whatnot ..... the show is always going to reflect the times. Three rail O gauge is in transition, and the show is going to be as well. I can't speak of the past, my first was fall of 2021, so I can't compare it to anything. There are things I liked that I missed in the last show I went to, and I let EDTCA know what I was thinking. We have people grumble that EDTCA opened the show to the public more, allowed easy guest access or that TCA opened membership up....yet if those things hadn't happened, how big would York be now? York is one of those benchmark events, but reading between the lines of what I see in TCA publications, and what I have heard from other TCA regions, is that putting on meets has become harder for all of them, it is just that York is so big and attracts people from all over we see it.
Everyone has their own standards for what attracts them to something like York, and I understand it. The people who loved seeing new products from Lionel and other vendors, or enjoyed the access to Lionel people at things like the legacy users meeting, are going to be disappointed, or people wanting to see the large dealers there and maybe find something at a better price than they could get online or whatever will be disappointed they didn't come. Like I said in another post, I enjoy it as an event and I try to take what I can out of it, even if it is a mini vacation. Have gotten to meet some neat people, share war stories of sorts, get to see trains I otherwise won't see and maybe find something interesting I can use. In the end whether I go or not (outside things beyond my control, like health, work, lack of money, etc) is if it is still enjoyable, and more importantly, at the end of the show I kind of ask myself "if the show decided to shut down after this, would I miss it?". And right now the answer is yes, I would. On the other hand to be honest, the Greenberg Shows are getting to the point where I will go if it comes around, but if it disappeared it likely wouldn't impact me that much; on the other hand First Frost/First Thaw would upset me if it disappeared.
I liked reading your perspective as someone who only knows the post-Covid York, and I think you look at it the right way.
@MichRR714 posted:It's interesting that folks keep perpetuating this notion that MTH only has a few tools left. This just isn't the case and is a false statement. Actually they sold a limited number of tools in O Gauge. You have things confused.
MTH still has over 70% of the tools they had in O Gauge.
It's also noteworthy that the recent high end steam released by MTH was manufactured in Korea and some of the nicest stuff I've seen in O Gauge in a while.
Mich:
Mike Wolf intended to sell MTH as an entity in order to obtain maximum return on his investment, like any good business owner would do. Unfortunately, the deal MTH had in place to do just that fell apart at the last minute, and there were no other buyers that were willing to buy the company intact. Since Mike was determined to retire and exit the business, his fallback plan was to sell as much of the company as possible to gain as much return on his investment as possible, and, to a large extent, he was able to accomplish that by selling his building to a buyer and a large chunk of the MTH tooling to Lionel and ATLAS O.
My understanding has been that MTH sold most of its tooling to Lionel and ATLAS O. Whatever that percentage was, the only reason that MTH did not sell the rest of its tooling to Lionel or ATLAS O was because Lionel and ATLAS O decided that they were not interested in buying it. One of the so called "high end" steam engines released by MTH recently that you may be referring to is a perfect example of what I am talking about. MTH still had the tooling for the PRR J1, that I believe they used for the first time around 2009, because Lionel had no interest in buying it, as it duplicated tooling they had already, and ATLAS O was not interested in manufacturing steam engines.
Based upon working on a number of M&A deals earlier in my career, some of the likely reasons Lionel and ALLAS O declined to buy more of the MTH tooling include that it would have duplicated tooling they already had, as I noted already, was tooling they were not interested in for other reasons, concerns as to whether it would be profitable, etc.
Who knows exactly how much tooling MTH still has, and does it really matter? If in fact GRJ and you are correct that MTH still has 70-80% of their tooling, why is it then that MTH is only selling very limited types of engines and rolling stock? It appears clear that MTH is comfortable with their current business model and is utilizing selected tooling to produce the products that they have concluded make the most business sense for them. They are apparently doing very well with this scaled down business model.
From MTH's actions, it also appears likely that one or more of the following is the case for their business model: MTH doesn't want to compete head-to-head with Lionel, ATLAS O or GGD/3rd Rail by utilizing whatever tooling they still have that is not currently in use; MTH doesn't believe it would be profitable to utilize the remaining tooling they have; MTH doesn't want spread themselves too thin; or MTH is unwilling or unable financially to ramp back up production levels that approach what they were prior to Mike's retirement.
Based upon what I have seen to date since the formation of the new MTH, unless something changes dramatically, I think it is likely that MTH will utilize very little if any of the tooling they still have that is not currently in use.
Pat
@irish rifle posted:Mich:
My understanding has been that MTH sold most of its tooling to Lionel and ATLAS O.
Pat
Your understanding is incorrect and your post confirms that you don't have any inside or actual information. Let's just stop posting nonsense.
@Mellow Hudson Mike posted:Do you have ANY proof of this?
If there's one golden opportunity in all the nuances of this great hobby to make a point and ensure that people believe you this is it. Why should we believe your statement?
Let's be civil.
Mike
Mike do your homework. It's not that hard using the tools in front of you. I won't do it for you.
This whole thing is preposterous!
Not a single goose from Canada that I’ve spoken to has ever said anything bad about the York Meet vendors.
@MichRR714 posted:Your understanding is incorrect and your post confirms that you don't have any inside or actual information. Let's just stop posting nonsense.
@MichRR714 posted:Your understanding is incorrect and your post confirms that you don't have any inside or actual information. Let's just stop posting nonsense.
Mich:
What a weak and dismissive response. You obviously either didn't read or were unable to specifically counter what I stated in my last post on this subject, other than cherry-picking a difference in opinion about how much tooling MTH continues to own, which I explained is irrelevant if they don't choose to use it. Last, but hardly least, knock off the personal attacks immediately, as you are violating Forum rules.
Pat
@Traindiesel posted:This whole thing is preposterous!
Not a single goose from Canada that I’ve spoken to has ever said anything bad about the York Meet vendors.
Looks like the cat is out of the bag now!
Attachments
@irish rifle posted:Mich:
What a weak and dismissive response. You obviously either didn't read or were unable to specifically counter what I stated in my last post on this subject, other than cherry-picking a difference in opinion about how much tooling MTH continues to own, which I explained is irrelevant if they don't choose to use it. Last, but hardly least, knock off the personal attacks immediately, as you are violating Forum rules.
Pat
My post doesn't violate any forum rules.. yours might though!
Countering the assertions you've made or labeling our back and forth as nonsense is hardly a personal attack.
That said I'm willing to get back on topic if you are.
I do not see how Lionel not being at the York meet could be viewed as positive.
Due to personal financial issues, I will not be attending the Fall meet. Hope everyone has a great time, and I look forward to the reports!
OK guys....lets get back on topic and just agree that you may disagree. I don't want to have to close this thread or worse, delete it.
Unfortunately, the deal MTH had in place to do just that fell apart at the last minute, and there were no other buyers that were willing to buy the company intact.
There was never a deal with anyone ever that "Fell apart at the last minute". There was some interest but nothing serious to buy MTH and all assets as a whole. It makes perfect sense to downsize, compartmentalize, and reestablish a leaner business model to attract a buyer later on or make the company more manageable for transition to new owners away from retiring owners.
Since Mike was determined to retire and exit the business, his fallback plan was to sell as much of the company as possible to gain as much return on his investment as possible, and, to a large extent, he was able to accomplish that by selling his building to a buyer and a large chunk of the MTH tooling to Lionel and ATLAS O.
Mike didn't want to just close and sell the business, he wanted to see it carry on and transition to a new owner. No offense, you have no idea what his fall back plan was and neither do I. When no buyer came forth, he remained semi-active & retained some ownership in the spinoff divisions of MTH. By the way, with Mike still owning a major portion of MTH, and making all of that money from the sale of tooling and his building, he should have more than enough capitol to develop some new tooling IF he wants to. IMHO, I'm not going to rule it out but as GRJ said, it will be a while, they have other pressing priorities to get their house in order first.
My understanding has been that MTH sold most of its tooling to Lionel and ATLAS O. Whatever that percentage was, the only reason that MTH did not sell the rest of its tooling to Lionel or ATLAS O was because Lionel and ATLAS O decided that they were not interested in buying it. One of the so called "high end" steam engines released by MTH recently that you may be referring to is a perfect example of what I am talking about. MTH still had the tooling for the PRR J1, that I believe they used for the first time around 2009, because Lionel had no interest in buying it, as it duplicated tooling they had already, and ATLAS O was not interested in manufacturing steam engines.
Agreed. One thing to consider is that perhaps Lionel & Atlas only had a limited amount of capitol to invest into new tooling. They may have wanted more but it just wasn't financially feasible at the time. Is it possible that more tooling could be sold in the future? Maybe...
Based upon working on a number of M&A deals earlier in my career, some of the likely reasons Lionel and ALLAS O declined to buy more of the MTH tooling include that it would have duplicated tooling they already had, as I noted already, was tooling they were not interested in for other reasons, concerns as to whether it would be profitable, etc.
Profitable, wasn't the MTH tooled Bantam S2 Turbine in the v1 catalog cancelled? How much money did that one make? Why would they waste their money on that model when MTH had a much nicer Imperial S2 Turbine in their line up?
Who knows exactly how much tooling MTH still has, and does it really matter? If in fact GRJ and you are correct that MTH still has 70-80% of their tooling, why is it then that MTH is only selling very limited types of engines and rolling stock? It appears clear that MTH is comfortable with their current business model and is utilizing selected tooling to produce the products that they have concluded make the most business sense for them. They are apparently doing very well with this scaled down business model.
MTH knows how much tooling they still have and announced publicly that they retain about 80% of the original tooling (https://mthtrains.com/news/706). Also keep in mind that some of the sold 20% wasn't O Gauge tooling.
From MTH's actions, it also appears likely that one or more of the following is the case for their business model: MTH doesn't want to compete head-to-head with Lionel, ATLAS O or GGD/3rd Rail by utilizing whatever tooling they still have that is not currently in use; MTH doesn't believe it would be profitable to utilize the remaining tooling they have; MTH doesn't want spread themselves too thin; or MTH is unwilling or unable financially to ramp back up production levels that approach what they were prior to Mike's retirement.
Again, MTH and Mike Wolfe (one of the still vested partners) has plenty of money to do more with the company considering the piles of cash he has from the sale of the property and tooling. My opinion, they are still rebuilding to be a leaner company with much less overhead. You don't dive in and start tooling up new products while you are still learning the ropes to your new business model. There are still plenty of things that they need to focus on before getting ambitious with product development and ramping up production.
Based upon what I have seen to date since the formation of the new MTH, unless something changes dramatically, I think it is likely that MTH will utilize very little if any of the tooling they still have that is not currently in use.
Changes don't happen overnight or at the whims of a bunch of people who complain on an online forum. What I do like is that MTH is going to dealers and asking "What do YOUR customers want?". I really like these 50 - 100 unit custom runs from the dealers because they are getting road names out there from obscure branch lines that are local favorites to the community. That's pretty hard to do with a twice a year catalog that throws a bunch of stuff out there so that you wait to see what gets cancelled later on. It's kind of like throwing spaghetti at a wall and seeing what sticks. If MTH makes a product announcement, it gets built because the demand is already known.
Now in line with the topic at hand, I think Lionel could have worded their announcement in a bit more of a neutral fashion but what ever problem is occurring I'm sure will get worked out and Lionel will return to York in the future. I'm not going to worry about it, both organizations will carry on and still do their best to promote model railroading. Just breathe everyone, the sky, the pigeons, and the cat in the bag are all okay!
...and none of this matters at all.
Although this thread has provided great entertainment.
Unfair to the hobbyist. They should put their differences aside (whatever they are), grow up, and make it happen. Lionels announcement of their next premier locomotive is a big deal, as evidenced by this thread. After the past few years of pandemic folks deserve an in person presentation. Its plain wrong for both sides to make their needs more important than those of the clients. IMHO. Hoping they reverse their decision.
I don't know if we will ever find out exactly what happened here but (and I am a big TCA supporter-I've been a member for 21 years and don't plan on quitting) it is my opinion the ED should have made things as painless and as easy as possible for Lionel to attend. Again my opinion but if Lionel attends it is a win-win for everyone. If the ED did make a mistake here then it doesn't mean I am going to start disliking the TCA. Hopefully, if that is the case they will learn from it for future Meets. No person or organization is perfect and I am proud to be a TCA member.
"If the ED did make a mistake here then it doesn't mean I am going to start disliking the TCA. "
And if Lionel made a mistake by showing pique and annoyance with the Eastern Division, and getting personal, I'm not going to start disliking Lionel.
Not worth worrying about in either case pending future events. Stuff happens.
I would like to hear the EDTCA side of the story before I form an opinion.
Get back to TCA roots and spend more time at the members halls. Many terrific deals are waiting. Most of us have so much stuff that we are willing to unload unused items at very low prices. I had tables at a 2 local shows in Hagerstown Md and and came home with well over 1K at each show. I can understand Dealers and Manufacturers no longer showing at York. Dealers are in it to turn a profit and Manufacturers are in it to show new items coming down the road but unfortunately the expense has made attendance impractical. Most have great websites and are easy to do business via the web. I enjoy York and will not miss Lionel, MTH or any of the large dealers. I have their websites.
