Lionel Gateman accessory

Heres a nice video produced by Lionel explaining the gatemans operation and installation, depending on the type of track you are using....hope this helps- Pete

 

http://youtu.be/tEt4BZ1xtlU

that's a good video.  they were talking about an insulated track section.  i've never done one (o-27 or otherwise).  i'm using on o-27.  this is all in theory but here is what I think i need to do.  take a straight section and remove one of the outside rails.  i then use electrical tape (maybe 2) to insulate the rail from the "holder" and then crimp the rail back in.  1 outside rail and middle rail will have steel pins.  the other outer rail will be fiberglass/insulated pins on both ends.  when the train goes over the 2 outside metal wheels will make the ground connection.  so, to run my activated accessory, i will run a wire from the middle rail to the power on the accessory.  i will then run a wire from my "isolated rail" to the ground wire of the accessory.  how close am i??

excuse the pun......but you are on the right track.    For further ideas and to see how others on the forum accomplished this......look at this forum link.

 

-Pete

 

 

https://ogrforum.com/t...-scale-track-section

That's the post I read that tape was mentioned.  As long as I connect my ground to the insulated rail I guess ill be ok

Another idea which I did as a kid was I would put a lock on the track run one wire to the unit run the other wire to a push button and a wire from the push button to the other terminal on the gate man and you can push a button when you want or if you have kids that come around that something they can operate to keep them busy 

Chinatrain

You are on the right track with the insulated rail. The gateman will operate much better and much more reliable with the insulated rail then with the contactor plate. The plate which relied on the weight of the train needed constant adjustment and was  ( is ) just a big pain in the butt. I often wonder why Lionel even bothered with them. As an additional note you can run the 152 crossing gate the 151 semaphore signal and the 140 banjo signal with insulated tracks as well 

 

Enjoy  

 

Frank     

My gateman is connected to insulated track section.  Light stays on until the wheels are on the isolated track then the gateman comes out light shuts off...then when train leaves the track gateman goes in light goes back on....see my shorter video....I set my  151 and 154 to isolated track also but my block signals I connect to adjacent 022 switches to signal the lights...it's easiest and reliable

My postwar style layout is full of accessories and I use insulated track sections to activate several, including the Gateman.  Very easy and reliable. Similar to the Operating Switch Tower -- 1 to hot/power, 3 to common, and 2 goes to the outside rail of the insulated track section. That keeps the light on once power is applied and when the train completes the circuit the Gateman is activated.

Bostonpete.  How did you wire it?  right now i'm going straight to the transformer.  On 1 end is my ground...I think.  On other end is 1 connector for light and 1 for gateman.   I can hook up one or other but can't figure out both.  If I "jump" from light to gateman light goes out and brakeman comes out.  if i have a jumper from light to gateman and power connected when i turn on juice i get gateman only.  I'm really missing something.   I'd like the light on all the time till the gateman comes out.  say i'm running off an accessory on the tranformer and using an insulated section of track, where do the transformer wires connect to?  then, what wires go to the track (insulated and otherwise)?

Here is a pic attached.  Red wire goes to accessory voltage 14v.  Green wire goes to isolated outside rail of the isolated trigger track piece.  White wire goes to common bus ground.  Hope that helps.

bostonpete,

 

thanks for posting the pic!  now where do the red, white, and green wires connect to?

I don't normally quote my self but....

 

Here is a pic attached.  Red wire goes to accessory voltage 14v.  Green wire goes to isolated outside rail of the isolated trigger track piece.  White wire goes to common bus ground.  Hope that helps.

that's funny...i got so excited about the pic that I didn't read.  so basically what i've been testing with is the basic config. hook up the accessory to the light and clip farthest away so the light is on all the time.  then connect the isolated rail to the "gateman".

Because the gateman is a dual action accessory, you have a few options.

The default operation is the light goes on and the gateman comes out when the train's weight activates the contactor or the wheels complete the circuit via an isolated track section (isolated track is better IMHO).

 

You can also wire it like a did…. so the light stays on until the train enters the isolated track section, then the gateman comes out, and the light will shut off briefly until the gateman re-enters the shack when the train leaves the isolate rail.  

 

The last option is to have the light stay on all the time, even when the gateman leaves the shack. To do this the black wire which is normally connected the front right clip (common ground), needs to be detached and connected to the rear accessory power clip where the red wire on mine is.

Then the light will be on all the time.

 

Does that make sense?

 

If you plan on using multiple accessories or switches I would recommend using a common ground for your layout and separate dedicated bus lines for variable power and fixed accessory voltage.   I have one common ground bus,   separate power bus lines for each loop and the isolated sidings and blocks (various drop feeds) that are activated by toggle switches, and a couple separate bus lines for accessories that I can adjust but usually are kept at…  ~14 volts for accessories, and 1 at ~16 volts just for my 022 switches.

 

Hope that helps.   

so, the pic you posted isn't configured to have light on all the time?  I would need to detach black wire and connect with red wire.  what does the pic you posted do?

 

so, on my 1950 marx xformer, i'm going to connect my power to red wire and ground to white wire...sure hope they're marked....

 

Lionel intended the light inside the 145 gateman to be illuminated all the time. See the first page of their service material for it. It includes a wiring diagram.

 

Of course folks are free to set theirs up any way they choose.

I set up mine that way because my dad used to ask me....

 

Do you have stock in Boston Edison??? Please shut the light off when you leave a room

 

He also was fond of asking me if I was raised in a barn...but he knew I wasn't... didn't he????

Exactly. That's how I described my gateman operation above.  I do the same with the Operating Switch Tower (same wiring scheme). Light stays on all the time and the "action" is triggered by passing train on insulated track section.

this is a different diagram than what i found before (or maybe arranged a little simpler).  so, i run 1 transformer wire to the gateman post and the other transformer wire to the lamp post.  i then run a wire from the insulated track to what it calls the "return spring" post??  I don't have a piece of insulated track yet.  so i'd like to test prior to incorporating that possible issue in the mix.  can i test this configuration without the track piece??  can i run the transformer wires and then touch the 3rd post to something for a ground??  i know there are a lot of people shaking their heads but i do appreciate the patience.  jeff

The document I linked was created by the Lionel service department. I don't know what other diagrams are out there.

When you use an insulated track to control the accessory, the other two wires must be connected to the correct posts relative to how the wires are run to the track. I skimmed the Lionel video that was linked above. I suggest following their directions.

i got it hooked up and isolated track in place.  train goes around fine.  light is on all the time.  if i tap a wire to my insulated rail and the gateman connection, the gateman opens.   i'm thinking that shouldn't work...there should be a metal wheel having to be in play?  if i tap the wire to my uninsulated rail nothing happens which doesn't seem right either.  my wire from the insulated rail to the brakeman doesn't do squat with or without a train.  bad word...bad word...

quote:

 if i tap a wire to my insulated rail and the gateman connection, the gateman opens. 

 

It sounds like you are missing an insulating pin (or both).

Each end of the insulated rail should have a plastic pin to prevent electricity from the adjoining rail from passing to the rail all the time.
The pin end should have metal pins in the center rail and the uninsulated rail. The insulated rail should have a plastic pin.

The other end should only have a plastic pin n the insulated rail. You have to remove a pin from the next track back to accomodate it.

also make sure that the isolated rail itself,  not only has the insulating pins, but the rail itself has been insulated with electrical tape at the ties if you are using tubular track.....Anyway you can post some pics of the wiring you have done to the track and to the gateman shack?  This would be helpful to get an eye on the problem.

 

-Pete

i'll take some pics shortly.  i did put 2 layers of tape between rail and track and put the plastic pins on each side.  i attached the wire to the insulated track this way:  since i had to "split" the rail a little more to get the metal pin out, i shaved about 2" of wire  and stuck it down the rail and bent the wire out of the rail in the same area the tape went so the tape holds the wire in the rail.  the wire is no where near the plastic pin.  like i said, i'll take a video or pic...

i took a video:

http://youtu.be/1rIuRIMVmIk

 

the rail has basically 3 layers of tape.  i took the wire from the insulated rail and just "looped" it around the rail so that i knew it wasn't a ground issue with the wire.   Thanks for looking!  jeff

Chinatrain,

 

Sorry for what might seem like an obvious question but just wanted to check after watching your vid.

 

You do have power to the track, right?? In addition to wiring up the accessory correctly you have to have power going to the track to make the insulated track piece work correctly to activate gateman.

 

Just checking.

Just saw the video......just as Johnstrains advised......I see no power from transformer to the rails.  For testing purposes run the A and U wires (positive and ground ) to your track. 

Everything else is perfect. Good luck and let us know-Pete

The transformer you see is only powering gateman.  The track is powered by another transformer.  I can run trains around track fine.  Is that it?  I have to run track and accessory off same transformer??

I figured adding a second transformer is like running gateman off accessory

Should I be operating gateman from same track power?

Another thought: the wire going from gateman to the insulated track section -- is it on the same side as the insulating pins? It needs to be.

For grins, run them off same transformer and report back.....thx

 

-Pete

Not required. I use a PW ZW transformer and have all my accessories (many) including the ones like the gateman that are triggered by an insulated track section connected to non-track power. Actually works better that way.

I have light running off accessory.  When wheels go over isolated track light dims and you hear a grind but not enough poof to open door.   So gateman is running off track power which I'm not running at warp speed.  If I take train off and max power it opens slowly.    My gateman may need a little tuning.  I'm only running this on 10" section and between slow gateman and lo track power, there's no magic.  Any suggestions?

Sorry china, but officially stymied at the moment. Maybe some of the usual PW suspects  -- and experts -- will weigh in over the weekend.

 

We'll get this working!

Sounds like wiring is correct since the door and the gateman are now opening when a car rolls past, albeit slowly.  I would say based on that the trouble lies with the gateman itself but in your video when the ground is applied it appears to work as it should.  I was going to suggest that track power is too low but you advised you tried it at max with the same result......I'm baffled.......time to defer

Wish I could help more but its tough to trouble shoot by text only

 

-Pete

You don't need power applied to the middle rail or track to operate the gateman ( I run mine off a different kw for accesories only)...but you do need a common ground between the gate man and the non isulated outside rail... a common ground that returns directly back to the same power source as the ground (be it the track power source or an auxially accessory power source...doen't matter .  

Possible reasons for the sluggish gateman might be a few things...the gears under the gateman need to be cleaned and lubed...selonoid plunger might be grimey....or  the return spirng has a problem...brittle?... too tight?...to loose?....Just some possibilities???maybe

 

 

 

so, i think you're say that it's probably wired correctly.  i haven't looked at this too closely but i believe that i need to get in there and oil it and see if that helps.

it looks like you have wiring correct to make it work...why its not working well... my guess is probably mechanical not electrical....I hope it works for you...except for the 154 its probably the most iconic lionel accessory