Don't get me wrong. I too like the scale sized rolling stock. I don't buy traditional.There are times when I need an 054 or o42 to accomplish my layout design and I don't think I can do that with KD's. By Lionel offering the 2 rail conversion trucks that should hopefully satisfy everybody.
Rod Miller
Pre-ordered 11 PS-1 cars from the new Lionel catalog today. Also the K-D's to exchange the claws. Already have spacers.
Extra cost to put K-Ds on is $4.05/car, exclusive of spacers. Lobster claws go in the trash . . . a complete waste. Roughly $45 directly to the trash.
My point?
Doesn't have to be this way! Price scale cars with no couplers! Give people a choice. Even a "price $$$$, scale couplers, an additional $5.00," even though, seems to me K-D couplers should be cheaper than claws.
Is it a "big deal?"
Well, I guess not. I placed my preorder anyhow. Changing the dratted claws will be easy enough (thanks, Lionel). The duplicate car numbers might be tougher.
romiller49 posted:Don't get me wrong. I too like the scale sized rolling stock. I don't buy traditional.There are times when I need an 054 or o42 to accomplish my layout design and I don't think I can do that with KD's. By Lionel offering the 2 rail conversion trucks that should hopefully satisfy everybody.
Rod Miller
Just to help out here if possible... It isn't the coupler type that dictates the minimum radius. It's the amount of swing that the coupler has. Go with a medium or long shank body mounted Kadee and you'll probably be fine. Need more clearance? trim the sides of the Kadee coupler box. Need more that that? Use a talgo style mount for the Kadee like Atlas offers where it swings with the truck.
Kadee couplers couple and uncouple much easier and more reliably than any lobster claws and they look better. I'm not trying to convert you, just pointing out some facts. With the new trucks Lionel is bringing out you may even want to give it a try. I am personally very excited because I've been converting a lot of Lionel modern scale cars to 2 rail the hard way because they are so good. Now there will be an easy way... I'll be buying even more Lionel rolling stock now.
Now, we just need an option for 2 rail capable engines... 
Thanks Jonathan. I am familiar with KD's. I used them exclusively when doing HO. With the new trucks from Lionel I think I will give it a try.
Rod Miller
Has somebody come up with a way to make scale sized, command-control operated, electro-couplers for each locomotive and car?
Andrew
A slightly different perspective prefaced with a question: will the new trucks be offered with friction bearing sideframes or only roller bearing? I run steam era only, so I don't buy anything with roller bearing trucks. If the scale cars aren't made available with friction journal boxes, I won't be buying any more Lionel. I'm hardly a deal-breaker for multi-million $$$$ enterprise, but I wonder if there are any other operators out there who have the same problem. It looks like other sideframes would be an easy-peasy do with potential to really increase accuracy: not just generic friction bearing but multiple styles for these trucks. Even Arch bar or Fox! Here's an opportunity, Lionel!
palallin posted:A slightly different perspective prefaced with a question: will the new trucks be offered with friction bearing sideframes or only roller bearing? I run steam era only, so I don't buy anything with roller bearing trucks. If the scale cars aren't made available with friction journal boxes, I won't be buying any more Lionel. I'm hardly a deal-breaker for multi-million $$$$ enterprise, but I wonder if there are any other operators out there who have the same problem. It looks like other sideframes would be an easy-peasy do with potential to really increase accuracy: not just generic friction bearing but multiple styles for these trucks. Even Arch bar or Fox! Here's an opportunity, Lionel!
The 2-rail kits in the latest catalog are the 70 ton (roller bearing) and the 50 ton (journal box). Ergo, the 50 ton are the friction bearing.
Lionel is making a first step in offering product for 2-rail. So let them test the waters of that market before you start jumping on them to make 400 new sideframes.
Terry Danks posted:Pre-ordered 11 PS-1 cars from the new Lionel catalog today. Also the K-D's to exchange the claws. Already have spacers.
Extra cost to put K-Ds on is $4.05/car, exclusive of spacers. Lobster claws go in the trash . . . a complete waste. Roughly $45 directly to the trash.
My point?
Doesn't have to be this way! Price scale cars with no couplers! Give people a choice. Even a "price $$$$, scale couplers, an additional $5.00," even though, seems to me K-D couplers should be cheaper than claws.
Is it a "big deal?"
Well, I guess not. I placed my preorder anyhow. Changing the dratted claws will be easy enough (thanks, Lionel). The duplicate car numbers might be tougher.
Because Lionel will lower the price without the couplers...Ha ha ha ha. 
. Well at least you won't throw away $45 but will still pay it.
Engineer-Joe posted:I hope I can thank Lionel publicly here for making their cars available to 2 rail easily. I know this is not the forum. I just want to add balance to the discussion.
I don't mind having to buy the KD couplers extra. I actually hope someday you could offer full 2 rail RTR models. I will take what I can get as it comes. I don't expect Lionel to abandon the "claws" overnight. Someday they may not be desired anymore. We will have to wait and see.
Well said, I totally agree. I haven't yet changed anything to Kadees, but I may someday? I have some Kedees and have been thinking about it for a while. For now I am completely satisfied with the lobster claws. I also imagine there are, by a very long shot, far more lobster claw users than there are folks that change to or want Kadees.
I think we should just be thankful that the manufacturers are making it easier to change to Kadees than has been in the past, instead of complaining that the cars don't come with Kadees already installed. After all lobster claws have been the standard in 3 rail for many, many years. (As Mr. Spock said "the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few".)
I also agree with MartyE, should any manufacturer ever decide to leave off the couplers and let the buyer purchase their own after the fact, I am sure we won't see a decline in the price of any of the rolling stock. However, we might very well see an increase in the coupler prices? Be careful what you wish for. Again, I am just happy they are giving us the option.
Are there truck mounted kaydee couplers on the market. When I was in n scale you could buy them in large packs. Not as ideal as body mounting,but for the o gauge tight radius this could be a great compromise to going kaydee.
Lionelzwl2012 posted:Are there truck mounted kaydee couplers on the market.
No. Spelled "Kadee".
When I was in n scale you could buy them in large packs. Not as ideal as body mounting,but for the o gauge tight radius this could be a great compromise to going kaydee.
The vast majority of O scale modelers using body mounted Kadee couplers do not have "tight radius" curves.
Quick question: is it possible to retrofit older PS-1 boxcars to 3 Rail Scale -- hirail wheels with Kadees -- using these new wheel kits? I have a few older road names that I'd like to convert.
Thanks!
Terry Danks poPutting "lobster claws" on scale rolling stock is just stupid! No other word is appropriate.EscapeRocks posted:Terry Danks posted:Putting "lobster claws" on scale rolling stock is just stupid! No other word is appropriate.
I guess I'm stupid, then. All of my equipment, scale and non-scale, has the "lobster claws" and I have no intention of changing them, for various reasons.
Having a multi generation family layout with hundreds of engines and cars of all types, "lobster claws" are the only thing that makes sense.
Lackawanna1223 posted:Quick question: is it possible to retrofit older PS-1 boxcars to 3 Rail Scale -- hirail wheels with Kadees -- using these new wheel kits? I have a few older road names that I'd like to convert.
Thanks!
You can convert those older PS1 cars now. Why wait for the new trucks if you're going to use hi-rail wheels anyway? The PS1 is very easy to convert to Kadee couplers.
I just was clueless when I returned to the hobby that people could get so defensive about couplers!
Johnathon's post, far more tactful to tender egos than mine, is right on. You don't need to forgo the advantages of K-Ds because you have tight curves. As he describes, use longer shanks. Still, some companies and some products have not seen the light and make it so easy as these new Lionels are to change over! It's time they did!
Now, where K-Ds indeed can be a problem is in grade transitions with long, prototypical cars! Took some finagling, but my 21" passengers cars, all K-D'd, never uncouple on the grade transitions anymore.
As for couplers opening when they shouldn't. Just doesn't happen with K-Ds! That's strictly a "Lobster Claw Phenomenon!"
Fair enoughTrainingDave posted:palallin posted:A slightly different perspective prefaced with a question: will the new trucks be offered with friction bearing sideframes or only roller bearing? I run steam era only, so I don't buy anything with roller bearing trucks. If the scale cars aren't made available with friction journal boxes, I won't be buying any more Lionel. I'm hardly a deal-breaker for multi-million $$$$ enterprise, but I wonder if there are any other operators out there who have the same problem. It looks like other sideframes would be an easy-peasy do with potential to really increase accuracy: not just generic friction bearing but multiple styles for these trucks. Even Arch bar or Fox! Here's an opportunity, Lionel!
The 2-rail kits in the latest catalog are the 70 ton (roller bearing) and the 50 ton (journal box). Ergo, the 50 ton are the friction bearing.
Lionel is making a first step in offering product for 2-rail. So let them test the waters of that market before you start jumping on them to make 400 new sideframes.
Fair enough: none of the info posted here made that clear, and I don't have a catalog. Still, the potential for accurate variety is tremendous. While the traditional 3-rail community may not be too worried about it, some others are. I know how demand there is for Fox trucks, for example, in one segment of the market.
Mike will these new trucks fit the older weaver cars. Thanks!!!
chessie1971 posted:Mike will these new trucks fit the older weaver cars. Thanks!!!
I was wondering the same thing, Chessie. And if the new-design LionScale 3-rail trucks do fit older Weaver cars, will Lionel offer these 3-rail trucks and couplers for separate sale like they plan to do with the 2-rail version?
It sure would be nice to upgrade some older Weaver cars with these new trucks! Hopefully Mike will chime in here.
Terry Danks posted:Extra cost to put K-Ds on is $4.05/car, exclusive of spacers. Lobster claws go in the trash . . . a complete waste. Roughly $45 directly to the trash.
You could always offer your claws for sale here on the forums and recoup your KD investment per car. I think $5 shipped per usable coupler pair is fair value. I'm sure I'm not the only one that'd pick up a few.
I applaud Lionel for some nice improvements that should satisfy most modeler's needs.
chessie1971 posted:Mike will these new trucks fit the older weaver cars. Thanks!!!
Did anyone ever find out a definite answer to this question?
Question #2) Will these new trucks be available for separate sale? And will they be available for separate sale factory fitted with the 2 rail components? I did see the 2 rail conversion sets in the Lionel catalog which is great if someone like me buys a Lionscale car and I want to convert it to 2 rail but what if I want to convert an old Weaver car? Do I have to buy a 3 rail truck and a conversion set? That will cost me over $40. At which price point #1) I am putting WAY too much money into a Weaver car, #2) the Weaver car probably cost me $20 or less, and #3) I could get a pair a Rich Yoder 2 rail trucks for less than that or at the same price and have a much more detailed truck.
Lionelzwl2012 posted:Are there truck mounted kaydee couplers on the market. When I was in n scale you could buy them in large packs. Not as ideal as body mounting,but for the o gauge tight radius this could be a great compromise to going kaydee.
Lionelzwl2012, for a while Atlas offered a kit that allowed modelers to mount a scale coupler to a 3 rail truck. I am not sure if it is still available. I thought it was a good idea at the time as it would let 3 rail guys with sharp curves transition to scale couplers. I like the scale couplers better than the large Lionel type coupler only because they perform better. You don't have to slam them together at 40 SMPH to get them to couple up. The smaller size to me is just a bonus. Just my opinion. A lot of guys like the traditional Lionel coupler and like I always say there is no wrong way to go about this hobby.
Hudson J1e posted:chessie1971 posted:Mike will these new trucks fit the older weaver cars. Thanks!!!
Did anyone ever find out a definite answer to this question?
Question #2) Will these new trucks be available for separate sale? And will they be available for separate sale factory fitted with the 2 rail components? I did see the 2 rail conversion sets in the Lionel catalog which is great if someone like me buys a Lionscale car and I want to convert it to 2 rail but what if I want to convert an old Weaver car? Do I have to buy a 3 rail truck and a conversion set? That will cost me over $40. At which price point #1) I am putting WAY too much money into a Weaver car, #2) the Weaver car probably cost me $20 or less, and #3) I could get a pair a Rich Yoder 2 rail trucks for less than that or at the same price and have a much more detailed truck.
Phil this is email message from Mike Reagan!!!
Jeff,
Yes, they will. Not sure we will be selling the new trucks right away, as our production is our priority for the foreseeable future.
Cheesie, thanks for the response. No big deal but I didn't get that email from Mike Reagan and I reread this entire thread before posting and Mike's posts twice. If that information is in there I guess I missed it.
It is good news that these trucks will fit older Weaver cars but if Lionel doesn't offer them for separate sale then it doesn't really help anyone be it 2 rail or 3 rail who wants to upgrade an older car but hopefully they will offer them for separate sale someday. I also have some Lionel cars I would like to 2 rail and if I understand Mike's posts correctly these trucks would come with a bolster to do that also. I guess just wait and see at this point. I hope this project does not get derailed (no pun intended) now that Mike is no longer there.
"Doesn't have to be this way! Price scale cars with no couplers! Give people a choice. "
Probably a total non-starter in terms of inventory management/cost, primarily due to the fact that (guessing here) <5% of purchasers feel this way. And we are talking about a tiny marketplace with runs of, approximately, a few hundred or few thousand for each SKU. A vendor is not about to cause inconvenience and expense to 95% of customers to please the 5% who prefer this approach, to portray the primary issue. It's all about the marketplace and the marketplace is not primarily represented, at least at present, by those who want scale couplers on their three rail rolling stock.
Your welcome and Phil i emailed Mike and asked the question and i think they will sell the trucks seperate soon.
chessie1971 posted:Hudson J1e posted:chessie1971 posted:Mike will these new trucks fit the older weaver cars. Thanks!!!
Did anyone ever find out a definite answer to this question?
Question #2) Will these new trucks be available for separate sale? And will they be available for separate sale factory fitted with the 2 rail components? I did see the 2 rail conversion sets in the Lionel catalog which is great if someone like me buys a Lionscale car and I want to convert it to 2 rail but what if I want to convert an old Weaver car? Do I have to buy a 3 rail truck and a conversion set? That will cost me over $40. At which price point #1) I am putting WAY too much money into a Weaver car, #2) the Weaver car probably cost me $20 or less, and #3) I could get a pair a Rich Yoder 2 rail trucks for less than that or at the same price and have a much more detailed truck.
Phil this is email message from Mike Reagan!!!
Jeff,
Yes, they will. Not sure we will be selling the new trucks right away, as our production is our priority for the foreseeable future.
Whatever Mike Regan's plans were may no longer be in effect now that he has left the company.
Rusty
Oh my goodness, now we have an argument about scale couplers versus the conventional Tinplate Style coupler breaking out in the 027-Hirail-Traditional Three Rail forum. Those of us (I am taking a broad brush approach here), running on Three Rail Track, for the most part aren't into the Rivet Counting form of model railroading. In no way is that a slam at those who are. To each their own.
If you want scale couplers, go for it. If you don't that's just fine and dandy too. I for one prefer the larger coupler design and don't find it a distraction to my view of my layout. I want operating fun. I couldn't care less about the ability to change out couplers. Those of that who do, more power to you.
I just find it rather humorous, that this stuff breaks out in a forum directed towards the "non-scale" segment of the hobby.
You guys have to think the worse of everything because mike is gone from lionel.
GREENRAIL posted:Oh my goodness, now we have an argument about scale couplers versus the conventional Tinplate Style coupler breaking out in the 027-Hirail-Traditional Three Rail forum.
Agreed, I thought that is what the 3RS forum is for.
Dave
chessie1971 posted:Your welcome and Phil i emailed Mike and asked the question and i think they will sell the trucks seperate soon.
Wow! That is great news. Thanks a lot for finding out Chessie.
I was reading another thread on Weaver trucks which had a link to this older thread. So I reread this thread to find answers to my questions. When I couldn't find the answers I asked them. I never looked at which forum the thread was in. I didn't know it was in the "Traditional" forum until mentioned above. I never intended for there to be an argument. I just wanted to ask some questions.
I think Lionel/Mike Reagan did an excellent job here by developing a product that has the versatility to be of interest to a broad spectrum of O Gaugers. I think it will be a win/win situation for hobbyists and Lionel.
Phil not u i just got a little upset what Rusty said seems like always negative talk on here lol.
chessie1971 posted:Phil not u i just got a little upset what Rusty said seems like always negative talk on here lol.
I wasn't being negative, just stating a fact. It's possible that a new manager may not wish to travel the same path as the previous one.
I can't remember how many management changes I've lived through over the past 40+ years. Some have been for the better, some have been for the worse. Some even had little change one way or the other.
Rusty
Found this thread, which I originally totally missed, after some digging when my questions went unanswered on the "kudos to Lionel on their new truck design" thread a few days ago. So all my questions were answered by Mike Reagan earlier in this thread except one. Has anyone actually purchased the new Lionscale 3 rail trucks/couplers(either the 50t or 70t) and retrofitted them as is with the lobster claws on any of their Weaver rolling stock and how did it work out? Thanks
Nick
I don't have these new trucks but after looking at the pics in another thread They would not be a drop in replacement for the old Weaver trucks. The new Lionel trucks have a high bolster meant to be mounted to a car with little or no frame bolster. The Weaver cars have something close to a frame bolster found on the prototypes which allows use of close to prototypcally styled trucks.
I think the only way to use the new trucks on a Weaver car would be to cut the frame bolster way down or off. Kind of a shame really.
Pete
Norton posted:I don't have these new trucks but after looking at the pics in another thread They would not be a drop in replacement for the old Weaver trucks. The new Lionel trucks have a high bolster meant to be mounted to a car with little or no frame bolster. The Weaver cars have something close to a frame bolster found on the prototypes which allows use of close to prototypcally styled trucks.
I think the only way to use the new trucks on a Weaver car would be to cut the frame bolster way down or off. Kind of a shame really.
Pete
I designed the new LionScale trucks to match the height of the Weaver truck. So the cars are the same ride height. The trucks are a direct replacement.
Good news then. Thanks for the clarification Dave.
Pete
Most of us running 3RS with Weaver equipment when removing the claw will add washers if needed to gain clearance for the wheels to clear. I've even removed unseen ribs on the wood sided gon just to get the car closer to the proper height. Once the wheel clearance is settled you then add the required shims to get the coupler to the right height. With the new truck design which I do like the way the claw is now fixed to the truck. After the coupler is removed. The car sits at the same height. Why can't Lionel include in the box the 2 rail bolster in the conversion kit ? Then you could adjust from there rather than filing the stock bolster to remove the raised claw mount.
palallin posted:I know how demand there is for Fox trucks, for example, in one segment of the market.
Yoder just imported Fox trucks in 2 rail and P48. Scale City Designs sells a kit for Fox trucks. Should be able to put 3 rail wheelsets into the latter.
And, Archbars are fairly straightforward - put 3 rail wheelsets into Athearn trucks.
Dave Olson posted:I designed the new LionScale trucks to match the height of the Weaver truck. So the cars are the same ride height. The trucks are a direct replacement.
Dave, thanks for the information and taking the time to answer. Also thanks to the other members for their tips and insight. Looks like I'll order a couple sets of the Lionscale trucks for a Weaver boxcar(50t) that has missing trucks and a Weaver flatcar w/trailer(70t) with damaged trucks and see how it goes with the mounting process.
Nick
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