Lionel Heads Up

Beth, If the Cardinal set makes this list I would be interested in the cars. No need for another Pacific at this time.

Pete

Honestly, IDK if thats true of all of them or not.   These are coming directly from Lionel, and I dont think they would sell these with a known issue and not disclose it.  They are covered by warranty

Beth,

I’m also not sure there will be warranty coverage. The latest warranties are 3 years from date of manufacture.

https://www.lionelsupport.com/warranty

The set was cataloged in 2018 and delivered in 2019, so time is a wastin’.

Background info… https://ogrforum.com/...es-from-harmon-shops

I have the Harding funeral set too, and it has the issue. I opened mine up before it grenaded itself and will probably ship it to @harmonyards for a prophylactic fix.

Thanks for the info.....  Lionel has had its ups and downs.....but they have been good recently in standing behind their product.    I'll talk to them tomorrow and see what they have to say....

beth

Just checked with someone who is more in the know than I.  He says no issues with these K-4's that he has experienced, and warranty is in effect.

Beth, What other bargains do they have? Thanks, Robert

Nothing excectional from my POV.   A lot of traditional stuff that I dont handle.   I just mentioned the sets w K-4's , cause it was the only Legacy steam engine.   I was going to buy in big, but backed off, and just got several sets.   As much as I would like to handle everything that I think is cool...there just arent enough dollars.

Happy to be doing as many special runs as I am.   Also still picking up lots of NOS...there's plenty of that hiding around.

I'd like to be able to compete more with a lot of the high volume dealers...but Im so overwhelmed as it is...cant do everything.

And i stil get to perform on stage several times a month, and in some big time movies and TV shows. Wouldnt give that up for more trains......

beth

@Beth Marshall-The Public Delivery Track posted:

And i stil get to perform on stage several times a month, and in some big time movies and TV shows. Wouldnt give that up for more trains......

beth

???  Do tell; I just found, who I think is you, on the "IMDb" site... 🤔 🙂

Mark in Oregon

I need to get my imdb credits up to date....lol

Here's some pictures - beautiful set

If you could remove the black bunting on the engine then I'd be all over this set.

@Prr7688 posted:

If you could remove the black bunting on the engine then I'd be all over this set.

It’s extremely fragile, so you can. But it’s a bit like Daffy Duck’s amazing trick. Can only be done once.

@Beth Marshall-The Public Delivery Track posted:

I need to get my imdb credits up to date....lol

An update would probably help the career!

My son-in-law is ASC ... maybe you'll get to work with him some time. 

@Landsteiner posted:

"They’re moving those Harding Funeral sets because the gearboxes self destruct."

So what are the analytically valid data supporting this statement?  If they are knowingly selling a defective product, it's fraud.  If you don't have data to support your statement, they can afford more and better lawyers than you can, in all likelihood.

See the post i linked. I bought mine only a few months ago.

Honestly.....Ive never known any of the model train companies to try to move a known defective item.

I have known them to hold something back that had issues, and return them to the factory to be corrected, or used the items for parts.

Like other things on this list, they are just things that they had excess stock of.  Too many, from what Ive been told, have been sold without issue. 

We had trouble  with bad boards on some RS-11's a few years back, but not all of them.  SOme Atlas freight cars..years ago..had trouble with bad pot metal..but not all them.  And in all cases, the companies made good on them.

If someone wants to say that they had a particular problem, thats OK.

While repeating hearsay and rumors and making unsubstantiated statements has always been a mainstay of human existence...I wouldnt encourage it.

Im just sayin...

@Beth Marshall-The Public Delivery Track posted:

Honestly.....Ive never known any of the model train companies to try to move a known defective item.

I have known them to hold something back that had issues, and return them to the factory to be corrected, or used the items for parts.

Like other things on this list, they are just things that they had excess stock of.  Too many, from what Ive been told, have been sold without issue.

We had trouble  with bad boards on some RS-11's a few years back, but not all of them.  SOme Atlas freight cars..years ago..had trouble with bad pot metal..but not all them.  And in all cases, the companies made good on them.

If someone wants to say that they had a particular problem, thats OK.

While repeating hearsay and rumors and making unsubstantiated statements has always been a mainstay of human existence...I wouldnt encourage it.

Im just sayin...

A very nice well written reply Beth.

Thank you.

@Landsteiner posted:

"They’re moving those Harding Funeral sets because the gearboxes self destruct."

So what are the analytically valid data supporting this statement?  If they are knowingly selling a defective product, it's fraud.  If you don't have data to support your statement, they can afford more and better lawyers than you can, in all likelihood.

Not sure how lawyers jumped into the thread but the data in the link was convincing enough.   If you bother to read it.

No one said that they were knowingly selling defective products.

On the other hand it's only money.

"Not sure how lawyers jumped into the thread but the data in the link was convincing enough.   If you bother to read it."

I read the thread although I'm not sufficiently expert to evaluate the details.  My take is that some knowledgeable folks think this is an inferior design to previous locos,  and some locos have failed.  Those are the facts. That's a very long way from claiming without qualification that Lionel is selling off stock because the locos have a design defect.  If you can understand the difference between facts and speculation, and the implications.

Stating as a fact that Lionel is selling these locos off because the drive train self-destructs, when it is almost certainly untrue (see Beth Marshall's post above), is grounds for legal action, should Lionel wish to waste their time and money on a single rash and defamatory comment about their business and motives.  Then again this is the internet, and rash and factually suspect comments are everywhere .

https://ogrforum.com/...es-from-harmon-shops

From the fix applied, this sounds like a case of gears with holes on the large side of production tolerance, being pressed onto

axles on the small side of production tolerance.  Not every gear will move laterally on the axle, but when the above bad size

match-up occurs the gear is going to move sideways on the axle.

@JET posted:

https://ogrforum.com/...es-from-harmon-shops

From the fix applied, this sounds like a case of gears with holes on the large side of production tolerance, being pressed onto axles on the small side of production tolerance.  Not every gear will move laterally on the axle, but when the above bad size match-up occurs the gear is going to move sideways on the axle.

The problem is actually that there is no spacer (i.e. throw-out bearing) to keep the worm wheel centered under the worm. Additionally, the bearing that is there is smaller than the axle bearing on the engineer's side of the locomotive. Over time, as that smaller bearing carves it's way into the axle bearing the side-to-side play increases, eventually allowing the worm wheel to either completely lose contact with the worm, or more likely, reduce the engagement of the two gears to the point where such a thin part remains that with any load, one or the other starts to lose its teeth.

There are a few videos on YouTube of this happening (gears grinding and all) and at least one poster on another forum that has a copy from a follow on run (from the original in 2011) that has been to Lionel several times for repair. Additionally, there is evidence from others' Legacy PRR H10s that the wear is beginning to take it's toll on a gearbox with the same, or nearly the same, design.

My intent in replying to this was not to hurt business for Beth - but rather to prevent her from having to deal with the backlash from dissatisfied customers. I like the Public Delivery Track and I've ordered from there before, and have a preorder there right now.

The most sinister part of this design flaw, is that it will only rear its head with use. Since the expectation from most people is that these engines last a lifetime (based on historical evidence) I think it's only fair to point out that these engines may not live up to that.

I also think that blowing these out is suspect after the problems with them are so well documented (including the most recent version of which I own a copy and have posted pictures of), the time limits of the current Lionel warranty period, and all of the evidence gathered in the other fairly recent thread.

Some of y’all are getting the cart way ahead of the horse!….slow down!…..making accusations that Lionel is dumping off stock with known issues/defects  is just plain stupid…..as we stated on the fix thread, time & time again, the fix was designed for those engines WITH KNOWN FAILURES……which was the earliest of the Legacy K4 issue ……..we stated in that thread at least a million times that NOT ALL ENGINES WERE DOOMED TO FAILURE!….On that thread, we identified POSSIBLE future problems, and offered the remedy for those wanting piece of mind!….I’m not gonna sugar coat it, I never have, but some of y’all need to think before ya type!…this ain’t fair at all to Ms. Beth, who works really hard to find cool stuff to sell, and y’all are just knocking the winds right out her sails!….way to go team!…..NOT …..For Beth’s sake, delete the nonsense some of y’all posted that has absolutely no bias whatsoever!…..those that purchase the set can make the educated decision to add the fix or not, …..it doesn’t mean they’re guaranteed to croak,…..

Pat

@rplst8 posted:

It’s extremely fragile, so you can. But it’s a bit like Daffy Duck’s amazing trick. Can only be done once.

I'd love to see the result - if you've done it would you be able to post pictures?