Lionel/Ives late 10" Litho Freights

Unfortunately, the 1708 cattle car was never made with Lionel's name on it.....never heard or read of a reason why....it would have been a worthy addition to the Lionel Line of tinplate.....Lionel also made a cattle car in the 027 line with the number 1678 that is probably harder to find than the 1708 you have......I have never seen a 1678 in person & have been collecting for over 30 years. Nice tinplate you have, Steve & thanks for sharing your photos.  BTW-  The 1708 & the 1678 were only made for a year or two with the Ives name, after that, they were discontinued forever.

do not own either of these but have seen a few Ives 1678s recently. The "greener" one was on eBay in August with a 227.50 buy it now but went unsold. The "yellower" one was at a Nette auction in November and I had the winning online bid @ 90.00, but they sold it to someone who was actually at the auction for the same price as my bid. Not the first time this has happened with this auction house.

beautiful cars Steve, ones I need to start picking up.

what is this car, I don't believe I've seen that one before.covered gondola?

These cars that come from the transition period when Flyer and Lionel were jointly producing Ives fascinate me.  I don't have a lot of reference material on Ives, so I am learning.  Who produced these cars first, Lionel or Ives? Steve, are the 4 cars that you showed the only ones that appear in both Lionel and Ives livery? The 4 cars are numbered in the 1700 number range, where does that 1678 fit in?  Lots of questions I realize.  I'd like to add some of these to my collection, but I want to know what too look for.

Thanks,

Greg

Greg

I'm also still learning, these are pretty new to me also. It looks like Ives got these in 1932, then Lionel in 33.These are pretty large cars, about 10". It appears to me, the 1678 is from the medium size 1600 series like the Baby Ruth cars. These was also a smaller 4 wheel 1500 series done as both Ives & Lionel.

Just to add to the mess, I have a Ives 121 caboose that is really the large American Flyer O caboose with Ives plates. Seems this era could be a nightmare to try and understand.

1500 series, about 6 inches long

1600 series, about 8 inches long

1700 series, about 10 inches long.

Steve

The 1708 cattle car was only made by Ives in 1932, as part of one set. That's why it took me a 3 years to find one at a price I could afford in decent condition.

As to why Lionel didn't continue to make it? Who knows. I know Ives made a set without it as well, and maybe Lionel only wanted to continue that set (less items to make and keep on hand, not to mention cheaper to buy during the depression).

Very, very nice.

The 1600 & 1700 series tin litho trains were designed & made by Lionel in their New Jersey factory after the Ives factory in Bridgeport, CT was shut down in 1930.

All production of Ives Trains was moved to New Jersey after American Flyer sold their interest in Ives to Lionel. These particular tin lithos were never made By Ives themselves, Lionel Just stamped the Ives name on them and later on in 1933-34, the Ives 1600 series became the Lionel Jr series using the 0-27 track & then the Junior series became Lionel  0-27 Starting in 1937. The 1700 Ives series became the Lionel 1700 series in 1934 and was made all the way to 1941 which is why some of the 1700 had box couplers.

I like this period in Lionel/Ives history. Are there any good books that do a decent job of covering it ??  Most seem to just gloss over it and don't give much info.

Hi Jim!   No, not that I know of anyway.  TM Books did publish some info that was put into a book about prewar Lionel dealing with Standard Gauge, O Gauge, & O27. Not much info about the tin lithos discussed above. Perhaps someday a book will be published about Lionel's tin litho trains.  Greenburg also published some books about Lionel prewar, but not much info on the lithograph trains either. Take care.

After reading this thread my interest in these Ives and Lionel lithographed cars was piqued. I have picked up a couple recently and I saw one of the Ives cars at the Mad City Train show last weekend.  So now I am wondering what engine(s) pulled the 1700 Ives cars and the 1700 Lionel cars. How many of the 2700 Lionel lithographed cars are there and what engine pulled them?

Greg

Typically, the 1700 series cars were pulled by a Lionel 257 loco and an Ives 259T tender. I believe the 1600 series could have been pulled by a Ives 1661E, 1651 boxcab or Lionel 1681E loco.

Thanks Jim,

Now I know what else I need to look for. I feel like I am straying further from the Flyer fold all the time.  

Greg

During the Lionel years, 1934-1942, the following locos headed these cars: 259E, 262E, 249E, 264E, 249 and 204. They always in Promotional Outfits.

Ron M

For Ives, the four freights were pulled by a Ives branded 258.

Steve