Lionel LC+ attraction?

GregR posted:

 

LC only exists because Lionel wanted to cut corners by eliminating a real transformer from their sets, to both save on copper, and shipping weight. 

(I have to assume that statement was meant to be a joke. )

PLCProf posted:

I just ordered my first LC+ locomotive. Why? In order of importance-

1. Been running exclusively conventional since 1960, and controlling multiple engines without block control will be a great thing!

2. Electro-couplers are also a great thing.

3. It will run conventional if I become disenchanted with LC+

4. There is really no cost premium above current conventional product.

NO interest in sounds, they will be turned off. No interest in controlling switches or accessories from the remote, it is hard to beat a dedicated controller for simplicity of use.  For me, it is all about 1 and 2 above.

You obviously get it! This fits me perfectly and -- apparently -- many others here.

This is why I still don't get the continued attempts by some to describe and limit who is supposed to be a LC+ enthusiast. I am not: a) a kid, b) a train newbie, c) looking for a starter set, and I don't have a floor layout. But even if I was or did, who cares?

Been running conventional (mostly PW) trains for years, have a lot of gray hair, and know my way around a layout.  LC+ fits what I'm interested in and that's all that should matter. $1200 trains and expensive control systems are great -- if that's what you want.

JC642 posted:

BTW, I'm not an advocate of either of these cut rate systems that hang a carrot out, leave you wanting , and always end up costing you more.      

For me its Legacy and DCS controlling scale sized engines, or nothing at all..   

Joe  

If you had a 5x11 layout, you'd probably feel differently. 

Lionel LC+ attraction? / Updated

     New information to tell my story about the LC+ & the analytics, that brings it all together. More photos & video to follow. / One video & photo at this time.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X1IqzW9IL7U

Although I appreciate the rationale for the LC+ (and FlyerChief) system for many enthusiasts for reasons of simplicity, cost, kid-friendliness, etc., I long (long!) ago implemented Legacy and have acquired many Lionel AF and Lionel O scale sized engines and sets (and the TMCC boom and sounds cars) controlled by that system. There is no denying that LC+ and FC are a distinct step backwards from Legacy in terms of operations, flexibility, and feature count. And, fumbling around with extra handheld controllers is not my cup of Earl Grey. For me personally ... no Legacy, no sale.

Bob

Drydock posted:

What I like is it makes the Trains a social experience:  Instead of one guy in the basement with his stuff, now I take my son and a couple of friends in, hand each a remote "You got the switchyard, you got the freight, and you got the Passenger.  I'll be dispatch, we'll all play trains and yell at each other!"  Great fun! 

And it occurs to me:  think about how fundamentally different that is from the previous history of Toy Train operation.  It has always been one person.  One person at a transformer, one person with the remote.  Multiple operators were difficult and expensive.  Suddenly, its not. 

 

I like that. That's my point, the ease of operation for children and us big kids. When I was at the club last Saturday, one of the members came with his son. I handed him the LC+ remote and told him to go for it. Because of his father, he is responsible around trains. I have invited a Boy Scout troop to come and watch the trains and operate a couple of LionChiefs.

The other day my wife ran her Albert Hall for the first time, while I was running my CB&Q GP30s. Once she got the hang of it, she was enjoying running her train. She found it was easier for her to control verses running her ATSF E3 that has PS2. For me it would be nice if it had speed control( Odesey or something ). Until she got the hang of it( which was fairly quick ). I did worry she was going to  rearend the the my freight train. This was the first time in a year since her hospitalization that we ran trains to gather and it was nice.

MTH still has my money... I want something that will come in handy anywhere. I just don't like Lionchief Plus that much yet.

suzukovich posted:

The other day my wife ran her Albert Hall for the first time......she was enjoying running her train.

Now we know how many trains it takes to fill the Albert Hall. I'm glad it turned......her.......on.

breezinup posted:

suzukovich posted:

The other day my wife ran her Albert Hall for the first time......she was enjoying running her train.

Now we know how many trains it takes to fill the Albert Hall. I'm glad it turned......her.......on.

Huh???

suzukovich posted:

breezinup posted:

suzukovich posted:

The other day my wife ran her Albert Hall for the first time......she was enjoying running her train.

Now we know how many trains it takes to fill the Albert Hall. I'm glad it turned......her.......on.

Huh???

IIRC, suzukovich was referencing some lyrics from The Beatles Sgt. Pepper's Album.  The name of the song containing the lyrics "I love to turn you on" is "A Day in The Life" and were taken loosely out of context.  Google it and you'll understand.  I used to enjoy The Beatles back in the day.

Chief Bob (Retired)

johnstrains posted:

PLCProf posted:

I just ordered my first LC+ locomotive. Why? In order of importance-

1. Been running exclusively conventional since 1960, and controlling multiple engines without block control will be a great thing!

2. Electro-couplers are also a great thing.

3. It will run conventional if I become disenchanted with LC+

4. There is really no cost premium above current conventional product.

NO interest in sounds, they will be turned off. No interest in controlling switches or accessories from the remote, it is hard to beat a dedicated controller for simplicity of use.  For me, it is all about 1 and 2 above.

You obviously get it! This fits me perfectly and -- apparently -- many others here.

This is why I still don't get the continued attempts by some to describe and limit who is supposed to be a LC+ enthusiast. I am not: a) a kid, b) a train newbie, c) looking for a starter set, and I don't have a floor layout. But even if I was or did, who cares?

Been running conventional (mostly PW) trains for years, have a lot of gray hair, and know my way around a layout.  LC+ fits what I'm interested in and that's all that should matter. $1200 trains and expensive control systems are great -- if that's what you want.

Very well stated.  I run postwar, TMCC, Legacy, and LionChief Plus.  For me, the LionChief Plus is generally better than buying modern era postwar style engines.  The cruise control, smoke and electro couplers -- all with a diminutive remote that is easy to hold for lengthy periods of time -- is tough to beat for $250 to $350.

Bob Bubeck posted:

Although I appreciate the rationale for the LC+ (and FlyerChief) system for many enthusiasts for reasons of simplicity, cost, kid-friendliness, etc., I long (long!) ago implemented Legacy and have acquired many Lionel AF and Lionel O scale sized engines and sets (and the TMCC boom and sounds cars) controlled by that system. There is no denying that LC+ and FC are a distinct step backwards from Legacy in terms of operations, flexibility, and feature count. And, fumbling around with extra handheld controllers is not my cup of Earl Grey. For me personally ... no Legacy, no sale.

Bob

Also very well stated.  It's great that we have such variety, and that each of us can enjoy our own layouts the way we really enjoy running them. That is what is so great about the extensive variety in today's model train market, and, particularly in O Gauge.  I know someone who loves to run my layout, and, as a professional who keyboarded a lot in his career,  has significant and very painful arthritis in his fingers.  The smaller LionChief Plus remote is much easier for him to use than my Legacy controllers.  He can now be much more active in running my layout.  So, that has value too.  

Too bad the Lionel Corporation Tinplate won't likely  be releasing locos in a similar format, notwithstanding the "Lionel" name...  

For me the attractions are LC+ is affordable, and it can be run conventionally at the flip of a switch.

Pete

suzukovich posted:

breezinup posted:

suzukovich posted:

The other day my wife ran her Albert Hall for the first time......she was enjoying running her train.

Now we know how many trains it takes to fill the Albert Hall. I'm glad it turned......her.......on.

Huh???

It's a paraphrase from the last verse of the well-known song "A Day in the Life" on the Beatles' iconic "Sgt. Pepper" album, one of the most famous albums of all time. 

"It's a paraphrase from the last verse of the very famous song "A Day in the Life" on the Beatles' iconic "Sgt. Pepper" album, one of the greatest albums, rock or otherwise, of all time."

"Well I just had to laugh."

Author:  Lennon and McCartney 

Perhaps,  a Beatles LionChief Plus set for the Neal Young era crowd!!

And a free LionChief Albert Hall train set to whomever guesses how many holes it takes to fill the Royal Albert Hall 

breezinup posted:

And a free LionChief Albert Hall train set to whomever guesses how many holes it takes to fill the Royal Albert Hall 

One BIG one...

Rusty

Time to cue up Dobie Gray's fabulous hit, "Thread Drift Away." 

Pete

SDIV Tim posted:

MTH still has my money... I want something that will come in handy anywhere. I just don't like Lionchief Plus that much yet.

Tim, you gotta go with what makes you happy. My issue with DCS, TMCC and Legacy is the price. Right now LC+ works for me and my wallet. I have yet to try DCS. I don't know anyone who has it. Most of the guys around here are Legacy and want nothing to do with MTH. I like RailKing rolling stock and accessories though. The DCS test lab is not too far from where I live.

And LionChief/+ works on every layout and with every system running 18v AC or DC with no receivers or special wiring required.  Explain again why this makes it incompatible?

Jon

Breezinup, I'll go with zero.  It takes zero holes to fill most things.  

I run LC+ and TMCC locos at the same time regularly. Since I have to rewrire my switch tracks after a rebuild, it's the conventional locos that regularly derail. Running LC+ and TMCC locos at 18 volts causes the non-derailing feature in the switch tracks to operate smoothly even though the switches are not yet wired directly to the transformer. 

KOOLjock1 posted:

And LionChief/+ works on every layout and with every system running 18v AC or DC with no receivers or special wiring required.  Explain again why this makes it incompatible?

Jon

Jon

not exactly true below albert Hall running on 15v

JC642 posted:

Landsteiner posted:

"What is important is play value and excess depreciation."

 

Fair enough.  But the play value of LC+ locos is pretty well equivalent to other command locos in my view. As for depreciation, I'd hazard a guess that a $250-400 loco is going to depreciate a lot less both percentage wise and in absolute dollars than a $600-1200 loco as soon as you take it out of the box.  So from my perspective, for both play value (equivalent) and depreciation (superior) LC+ has much to recommend it compared with Legacy and PS3 locos.  Your mileage may vary .

As you say, fair enough..   As for depreciation, my point was, should the need arise, unlike selling older P-2 & P3, Legacy and TMCC motive power, I suspect you could eliminate most  Legacy and DCS/TMCC users from your potential buyers list..

Joe 

Joe,

Your post indicates an assumption that potential buyers using DCS, TMCC, and legacy constitute a bigger proportion of  the second hand market than say potential buyers using conventional or LC+.   The same could be said from my point of view for legacy, DSC, or TMCC equipment as a conventional operator....people like me who run conventional won't pay a premium for something I don't use that's over complicated and overpriced in my viewpoint.    What makes you think the command control operators on the second hand market exist in greater numbers or are  greater in their consumption than the conventional operators in terms of demand,  market volume or potential number of purchases?    There are many of us out there believe it or not.  

bostonpete posted:

JC642 posted:

Landsteiner posted:

"What is important is play value and excess depreciation."

 

Fair enough.  But the play value of LC+ locos is pretty well equivalent to other command locos in my view. As for depreciation, I'd hazard a guess that a $250-400 loco is going to depreciate a lot less both percentage wise and in absolute dollars than a $600-1200 loco as soon as you take it out of the box.  So from my perspective, for both play value (equivalent) and depreciation (superior) LC+ has much to recommend it compared with Legacy and PS3 locos.  Your mileage may vary .

As you say, fair enough..   As for depreciation, my point was, should the need arise, unlike selling older P-2 & P3, Legacy and TMCC motive power, I suspect you could eliminate most  Legacy and DCS/TMCC users from your potential buyers list..

Joe 

Joe,

Your post indicates an assumption that potential buyers using DCS, TMCC, and legacy constitute a bigger proportion of  the second hand market than say potential buyers using conventional or LC+.   The same could be said from my point of view for legacy, DSC, or TMCC equipment as a conventional operator....people like me who run conventional won't pay a premium for something I don't use that's over complicated and overpriced in my viewpoint.    What makes you think the command control operators on the second hand market exist in greater numbers or are  greater in their consumption than the conventional operators in terms of demand,  market volume or potential number of purchases?    There are many of us out there believe it or not.  

In my experience , many attempts to gauge depreciation are fraught with uncertainty. For a $350 LionChief Plus engine, even if I were do discard it, my depreciation would be less on a dollars and cents basis than virtually all of my scale equipment.  I try to buy what I enjoy running and let the future valuation rest until the future  

If anybody is thinking they are going to make money selling used Lionel, MTH, etc. trains produced since the 1970's, they will find them a poor investment.  Buy and enjoy what you like, and don't worry about its future valuation.

I really like LC+, for the money.  On my small layout they work for me.  Sound is OK, smoke and lights are very good, and speed control is great.  I don't feel bad when I have one painted to a favorite railroad that will never be offered.  I'm happy, that Maine Central lettering really pops!