Lionel Legacy CB&Q F3 6-38597 motor driver

I don't believe there's any indication of direction, but I'm not positive.  There isn't on the old Odyssey I, but there are 5 leads from the encoder board on Legacy, so maybe it does sense it. 

 

Why not swap the leads on the bench and see if that makes a difference?

I will, both my A units had a meltdown the other day, lead A unit lost sound and trailing A unit would not run. Had to pull out the Alcos to pull the Zephyr. Ill spend some time on the bench and see what is going on. I will let you know what I learn

Doesn't the 4 pin connector provide phase and directional information.  Separate Fwd and Rev wiring to the motor driver from the R2LC/R4LC output.  G

We're talking about the motor encoder, not the DCDS board.  I don't know that the motor encoder senses the direction of rotation, that's a bit more complex than just counting pulses. 

 

Of course the DCDS has to know which direction you're running.

 

I dont know enough about Lionel electronics yet but Im learning. I sure do wish I could get some factory training

I sure wish Lionel would run the classes again...

 

       
       


Agreed I want to go. But when i did my legacy conversion on my mth dash 9 .. I wired the motors backwards and had the blinking cab light .. I found out I didn't plug the sensor wire into the mother/driver board all the way .. After that it ran fine..I wired mine backwards on purpose cause I had the sensor board on the rear engine but them I moved it to the front cause of
Clearance issues ..

I sent Mike Reagan an email last week about classes and nothin. Just cant get no love!!!

I didnt occur to me to just switch positions of the motors. There's more than enough room in the F3 for that

There's another plan.   I am curious if the motor encoder actually does encode rotation direction and send it to the DCDS.

 

These boards are wildly different than any of the modular boards I am familiar with. There is a large motor driver board with a mini legacy radio board on top and the sound board is a smaller module off to the side. Every loco, dummy or powered has a similar large circuit board in it that hardware wise is exactly the same however when I tried to use the dummy unit board there was no motor function at all. And sure enough, Lionel has different part numbers for all 4 boards. Since they are all meant to run on the same ID the lighting functions for the boards are different so I will say I do get some different lights using the b-unit board in an A unit but the lights do work.

Those are the new Legacy boards, the TMCC receiver sits on top of the main board.  All the functions are on the one board now.

I wish the dummy board had motor function, must have a different firmware version

Most likely, and they may have left off some parts.  I think the basic PCB is common, but I didn't look close enough when I had the Sharks open to see if there was component differences.

 

You might be, but he asked if the motor driver sensed direction in his original post.  G

Go back and read it again.  The question was about reversing the motor leads so the motor ran in the opposite direction.  He asking if the motor driver board knows if the motors are going in a different direction, at least that's what I see.

 

Does the motor driver board know if the motors are going in forward or reverse or does it just show motion and speed?

John is correct, I am wondering if the board knows the motors are going the opposite way from which it was intended

Which board, and what is a motor driver board?  I assumed, bad thing, that when you said motor driver you meant the DCDR/S equivalent for your engine.  I guess if you use Marty's advice and provide model # we can help you some more.

 

But in general, the MOTOR DRIVER Board, if we are talking the board that has the TRIACS or FET or the section of the board with the FET that controls or "Drives" the motors, it should have phase and direction information via the R2LC/R4LC or RCMC equivalent.  Maybe not, but I think it does.   

 

As far as which way the motor actually spins, nope.  It assumes you wired it correctly.  G

Symantecs, you train guys and your dumb Symantec arguments, who's Marty?

Matt,  Actually specifics do matters.  Marty Fitzhenry. 

 

Now I understand what you meant.  But read your question again.

 

Motor Driver board would be different than a Motor Sensor board (Tach encoder) mounted under the flywheel. 

 

I was just pointing out that the motor driver board does have a source to know what direction was ordered.  G

In this case, the "motor driver" board is the main RCMC Legacy board, these have the unified electronics.

 

That it is. Combined Receiver / Driver board in one if we are talking about 6-38597.  G

Sorry G I was a little miffed about something else last night nothing to do with you. You are correct 6-38597. When I get to my work bench tonight or tomorrow i will wire the motors properly and see if it works. I wonder if turning Odyssey off will get it running. I worked just fine wire the other way but I couldnt stand having to run it as a consist so I rewired it. What effect would having it programmed as a consist on another Legacy system have?

I'd swap the motor leads first and get it running as it was from the factory.  My experience with the tach failures on other Legacy locomotives was that turning off Odyssey didn't help if they weren't working.

 

What pattern are the cab lights flashing in?  Is it a single flash indicating drive motor issues?

Just constant flasshing. It moves about an inch that stops and the cab lights flash. If I get it running as it was form the factory Id have to put all guts back into the B unit . I will rewire it and let you know what happens

Matt, No problem, we all have a bad day.  I saw you post on the 3R, sounds like one casualty after the other, so I understand!  G

G, I don't think I've had that many problems running trains EVER. Total layout n equipment meltdown.

OK so this fix was pretty easy, the front motor was stuck and wouldn't move so once i freed it the engine ran fine but im gonna have to get in there and see if there is a bit of a misalignment or something. Thanks for the help, this thread shed some light on how the Lionel circuits work. I did this swap so long ago I only vaguely remember doing it, there was a ton of trains between now and then. I think I need to start a log book for all the work I do on my own trains

It was the horns, the fricking pins from the horns where pushing on the flywheel not letting the motor with the encoder spin so it would move an inch, stop then flash the cab lights

If you look closely, that should be a single flash for drive motor failure.  There should be a longer time of the cab light off than on.  If the motor draws too much current (stalled), that would indeed trigger that error.

 

John, it really looked like constant flashing

To be truthful, I've never seen a motor failure flash, so I'm not sure what it looks like, maybe it doesn't have the definition like the other codes.  I've seen all the various smoke unit error codes.  The one true motor failure I had didn't flash, it just smoked the drivers on the Legacy board!

I ca n put my finger on the flywheel n video tape it

I wouldn't risk it.   Like I said, a shorted motor smoked the Legacy board, let sleeping dogs lie.

 

Parts are not changed or left off, the code is compiled to suite the functions.

 

If we enabled the motor driver in the firmware, the cab light would flash indicating the motor (which is not present) is not spinning!

Good point Jon, the flashing light would be bad.

 

 

Seeing how the motor with the encoder is the one not spinning I doubt it's an over current error but a motor not spinning error. I really really really like the fact that these engines are designed to run as on loco on one TMCC ID. My desire to have the dummy boards motor function work is to have the all the lighting functions operate correctly when I powered the unit. The reason I powered the A unit is because the CZ train I'm going to run is 15 cars and I want to make sure I have enough power when I run on grades steeper than 2%. I have a powered b unit to add when necessary but will run the dummy b when it's not needed

Can you enable the motor driver on the board?