Lionel Legacy Control System

If you have separate loops, why do you need a command control system?  You could power the tracks and watch trains circle all day with conventional control.

I'm NOT trying to be cute or smart.  Command is GREAT and easy to switch back and forth between engines.  

I envy you being retired and having time.  You could swiftly pick-up how to do it by just buying a system.  But again, if you've got a bunch of separated loops, why?  You don't need it.

John, once you've run command, even if it's a separate track, it's pretty hard to go back to conventional.

One issue is I can not control smoke with Lionchief Plus engines. It's either on or off.

I like the idea of programming an engine, function controls and maybe running some Command accessories.

Just something different. Just being picky here, something new to learn and explore.

My LHS is pretty good when it come to trades giving me some credit to upgrade to legacy engines. 

If you can change the channels on your T.V. remote, you can change engines with the legacy handheld. You simply address it via the engine number you program it with. The you push the ENG button and enter the number.

I'm sure I can toggle locos with the legacy handheld in the time it takes you to set down one Lionchief remote and pick up another

Whatever Legacy loco you start first, will continue at whatever speed it was at when you addressed the next locomotive and so on. You simply re address whichever loco to change the speed etc. again.

With all due respect to those reluctant to try Legacy. IMO,most of the fear is "of the unknown". In this day and age of  ipods,smartphones etc, the Legacy handheld is really "low tech".

Its probably more difficult to navigate this forum.

gunrunnerjohn posted:

John, once you've run command, even if it's a separate track, it's pretty hard to go back to conventional.

can you hear me chuckling? not only easy but when modern stuff and systems act up .... I throttle up the ole conventional and enjoy watching and running a train.

 DKOKOSZKA each has its merits but am sure if you get the full command system you will enjoy another new world we only could dream of back in the early days of toy trains.

As others have said above, it's not difficult to change engines with a Legacy remote. Legacy is also pretty easy to get set up and start running trains with the Legacy system.

Also, your Lion Chief items will run just fine on a layout with Legacy. They can both exist together at the same time without problems. You just can't control the Lion Chief items with the Legacy remote, you will have to use their specific remotes for them as you are doing now and use the Legacy remote for all your Legacy items. Just thought I would throw that in here, wasn't sure if you knew that or not since you mentioned getting rid of your LC items?

DK,

How are the 4 loops powered? I ask because if you have a powermaster attached to each loop (or you're using a ZW-L or ZW-C for power) you can then remotely control the power level to each of the loops using the Legacy remote. It basically allows remote control of conventional locos as long as you're only running one loco per loop.

If you're running all Legacy locos, the power source doesn't quite matter as much and you can run as many locos as you can safely keep tabs on without crashing.

The last step after adopting Legacy will be implementing the LCS system with iPad or iPhone control of the layout. That should keep you busy for quite some time.

Mike

I've demonstrated the Legacy system to several conventional only train clubs to show them how easy it is to setup and use.  Within ten minutes of arriving, I had the system connected and a couple of Legacy locomotives happily chugging around their layouts.  It was an eye opener for some of them.

Lionchief plus engines are powered by DC adapter plugged into the wall. 

I  know I will have to get another power supply for legacy engines.  

My Lionchief remotes are velcroed to the front side of my table so it's very easy to control them. 

I use a remote control fob to power lights and trains. Like you would use to turn Christmas lights on outside.  If things get out of control I hit the off bottom on the fob and it shuts everything down. 

gunrunnerjohn posted:

John, once you've run command, even if it's a separate track, it's pretty hard to go back to conventional.

Ditto that!

Rod

A second Cab2 makes some things easier for me.  Like simply blowing two different whistles at the same time or close to the same time.  

I also use a Lionchief to pull a camera while trains run on the Legacy.

Legacy sounds are so much better.

gunrunnerjohn posted:

John, once you've run command, even if it's a separate track, it's pretty hard to go back to conventional.

True John.  But, why spend all that money if all one has is separate loops?

I don't understand the separate loops response? Can you explain?

4 separate loops, 4 trains running at the same time very close to each other is exciting to me. 

Why can't I use the same system but with Legacy engines?

gunrunnerjohn posted:

John, once you've run command, even if it's a separate track, it's pretty hard to go back to conventional.

+1 John!  I've got both Legacy and DCS and I love 'em both!   The current layout I am building is an around-the-room style with 3 separate loops and I'll be running command on all 3 loops.   I really enjoy all of the "bells and whistles" (pun intended).

Chief Bob (Retired)

I like to run two trains on the same loop. Easy with Legacy. I like short trains these days.

DK,

Regarding the separate loop comment, I think that the point was, if each of the 4 trains are on their own separate loop, then they can't and won't run into one another so, for some, that takes away one of the primary benefits of running command locos in a command environment  - multiple trains on the same loop of track - either following each other in the same direction or opposing each other which requires one to pull into a passing siding. 

While that was the biggest feature advertised since it's introduction, I'm not sure how many operators really do run multiple trains on the same loop. Most probably just run single trains on separate loops and the remote gives them the ability to move around the layout.

We run multiple trains all the time on the same loop.  When our modular club is displaying, we typically have two trains on each loop, and I frequently drop a small motorized unit like a speeder or the Wienermobile between the running trains.  Without command control, this would simply not be possible.

Well put, Thank you. I thought I was the only guy running separate loops.  Lionchief remotes allow you to walk around the layout as well. 

Not sure what I'm going to do?

The prices of Legacy engines scare me compared to Lionchief Plus engines. 

I was just looking for something different something fun to explore that's why I have been looking at the Legacy System. 

I will probably keep my Lionchief plus engines and add an upper level that I can run Legacy. 

You'll be able to run Legacy on all of the layout with the addition of the single Legacy system.

Dkokoszka posted:

Well put, Thank you. I thought I was the only guy running separate loops.  Lionchief remotes allow you to walk around the layout as well. 

Not sure what I'm going to do?

The prices of Legacy engines scare me compared to Lionchief Plus engines. 

I was just looking for something different something fun to explore that's why I have been looking at the Legacy System. 

I will probably keep my Lionchief plus engines and add an upper level that I can run Legacy. 

I take it the Lionchief is (totally) different from the Legacy protocol. And it's half or less the price of the Legacy system and engines. So was it developed with that market in mind or did the protocol exist somewhere and Lionel bought it adapted it to fill that market. If it didn't exist from some other development,  and if it were then developed compatible with TMCC and Legacy, then it would compete with their $1400 engines? And that would not be good?

I find the Lionchief engines incompatibility with Legacy as an impediment to buying any.

The control system is totally different, but they run on the same tracks at the same time.  I have the LC+ Camelback, nice little locomotive, but certainly not Legacy quality in either the operation or sound.  OTOH, not a bad little package for what it is.

cjack posted:

I find the Lionchief engines incompatibility with Legacy as an impediment to buying any.

Which is why I don't own any as well.  It's a shame some of them are pretty nice but I'm not going to have more remotes hanging around.  Some folks don't mind.

First ! To each our own !

2 Play with your lionchief (PLUS ) engines on your four loops !

3 Legacy was designed to run on layouts with many turnouts &  routes !

4 Legacy Engines are Expensive  !   

5 how soon are fools to part with their money !  especially in retirement !

Good Luck

WRGMILW posted:

5 how soon are fools to part with their money !  especially in retirement !

Good Luck

That's funny. Someone I know always says when you're lying there in the box, someone will look down on you and remark "This fool could have died with another ten thousand dollars had he not enjoyed those trains!"

Beat me to it Chuck!  

Remember, you can't take it with you, but you can take other people's money with you!  Ponder that for a moment...

Dkokoszka posted:

I don't understand the separate loops response? Can you explain?

4 separate loops, 4 trains running at the same time very close to each other is exciting to me. 

Why can't I use the same system but with Legacy engines?

 

It is your layout and whatever makes you happy is what you need to do. You can use your same system with Legacy engines just like you are doing with the LC engines now. I have basically separate loops and usually only run one train per loop. I have both MTH DCS and Lionel Legacy and wouldn't have it any other way. I don't run any conventional. 

The command control systems are what got me back into the hobby in 2011 when I was about to retire. I like the electronics as much as I do the trains and really enjoy both parts of the hobby equally. The projects the highly skilled electronics folks here come up with are very interesting to me. 

cjack posted:

WRGMILW posted:

5 how soon are fools to part with their money !  especially in retirement !

Good Luck

That's funny. Someone I know always says when you're lying there in the box, someone will look down on you and remark "This fool could have died with another ten thousand dollars had he not enjoyed those trains!"

 I will be one of the fools missing the ten grand. I worked and saved all my life to hopefully be able to enjoy my retirement, which I am trying to do right now. 

I do not have a Legacy controller but I do have Legacy locomotives on TMCC & DCS.  I mostly use DCS to control Legacy, TMCC & MTH Premier locomotives.  I like the ability to walk around using one remote to control trains, accessories, etc.  If the Legacy controller could control MTH Locos, I would buy it.

gunrunnerjohn posted:

Beat me to it Chuck!  

Remember, you can't take it with you, but you can take other people's money with you!  Ponder that for a moment...

I don't want to take other people's money with me when I go for good, but I would love to be able to take it with me to my LHS and exchange it for a few new engines I have been admiring on the LHS's shelves.  

"once you've run command, even if it's a separate track, it's pretty hard to go back to conventional."

Yes - actually practically impossible, for me. If I "had to", I might just walk away altogether, unless it was straight DC. FNR - nah.

Though one can operate more on the same track with command, and so on, and so on...that is not the point. Never was. That's a side benefit for some.

I operate only one loco at a time - command only. Years ago, it was the realization that I was actually operating the locomotive (in a precise way) and not operating the track (in an approximate way). Did something for me that no FNR transformer ever did. Nothing to do with layout size, either (another misconception) - but I can walk over to my locomotive and watch it work face to face.

And what are some guys doing that they have all this "trouble" with command control systems?

Analog/conventional locomotive control is like driving a big SUV with an automatic transmission - you give it suggestions, not orders. TMCC (et al) is more like my 6-speed Hemi Challenger - it takes commands, right now: stop/start/turn.

OK, the train can't "turn".