@rplst8 posted:Fair.
But I typically prefer transparency.
I gotcha, ….understand, …but, transparency is no good in the dark, …..and let’s leave it at that please,…
Pat
I just try to do what is the right thing to do. I remember scrambling to see what was needed for the list after learning of the K4'S. Having a bunch plus RickO talking about some of the other engines, I just went to it.
I just picked up a WGH on a deeeeep discount , Will open it up when I get it lol. I might open up my other two K4's for the heck of it. I have not run the Tuscan one much since I got it bu thte Polar road one I got used so do not know how muc it was run so it would probably be a good one to check out.
@Dennis Holler posted:I just picked up a WGH on a deeeeep discount , Will open it up when I get it lol.
If you’re wondering if it has the problem, you don’t have to look, it has the exact same problem.
If you do open it, be careful of the black bunting on the engine. It’s very fragile.
@rplst8 posted:If you’re wondering if it has the problem, you don’t have to look, it has the exact same problem.
If you do open it, be careful of the black bunting on the engine. It’s very fragile.
I haven’t had the funeral engine come across my plate yet, …..( or at least with the shell on) ……..what’s up with the black bunting?…..how is it affixed?…is it that bad?….( not being smart! I swear!!)
Pat
@harmonyards posted:I haven’t had the funeral engine come across my plate yet, …..( or at least with the shell on) ……..what’s up with the black bunting?…..how is it affixed?…is it that bad?….( not being smart! I swear!!)
Pat
Bunting is right under the headlight Pat. It looks nice but is fragile like most things in the industry.
@Dave NYC Hudson PRR K4 posted:Bunting is right under the headlight Pat. It looks nice but is fragile like most things in the industry.
Yeah, ….I’ve seen Ryan say it’s fragile as all get out ……but I haven’t had the the shell of that engine come across my plate …..I’ve done about 5-6 dozen of the K4’s , but most folks got pretty smart and just sent their chassis to me,…..saved them money, and me time……
Pat
Here's a couple screenshots off the Lionel product page if it helps. Course ya can't see how it is affixed.
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@harmonyards posted:Yeah, ….I’ve seen Ryan say it’s fragile as all get out ……but I haven’t had the the shell of that engine come across my plate …..I’ve done about 5-6 dozen of the K4’s , but most folks got pretty smart and just sent their chassis to me,…..saved them money, and me time……
Pat
I'd wind up breaking something removing the shells off of mine. Yikes.
It’s actually the bunting on the grab rails along the length of the boiler that I had trouble with. Each piece is brass (I think) and soldered to the next and so on. The pads that hold them together aren’t much wider than a few millimeters, and are extremely thin. I was able to fix mine, but some of the solder joints were weak/cold at least on my copy.
@harmonyards I posted pictures of the inside of mine in this thread, somewhere. Page 2 or 3 I think. I emailed you a while back to see if I could measure and then you make your spacer and you graciously agreed, but I got lazy and distracted by my next project (a Legacy PRR T1) and never followed up. 
Edit: Found it, page 5. These threads need an index and table of contents, lol.
@rplst8 posted:It’s actually the bunting on the grab rails along the length of the boiler that I had trouble with. Each piece is brass (I think) and soldered to the next and so on. The pads that hold them together aren’t much wider than a few millimeters, and are extremely thin. I was able to fix mine, but some of the solder joints were weak/cold at least on my copy.
@harmonyards I posted pictures of the inside of mine in this thread, somewhere. Page 2 or 3 I think. I emailed you a while back to see if I could measure and then you make your spacer and you graciously agreed, but I got lazy and distracted by my next project (a Legacy PRR T1) and never followed up.
Edit: Found it, page 5. These threads need an index and table of contents, lol.
Yeah, this thread got long, but it’s chock full of some very useful information, ….it is a great example of how this group of people ( including you, Dave, and couple of the others ) can come together, devise a fix, develop the list of offenders, and keep this thread as valuable tool,……email me whenever you’d like to tackle that engine, we’ll figure it out…..
Pat
It's always good to have a few extra eyes look at things and help fix/offer opinions or facts on how to. It amazes me sometimes just seeing how helpful outside eyes can help solve things like this. Just don't let me open any shells, lol.
@Dave NYC Hudson PRR K4 posted:It's always good to have a few extra eyes look at things and help fix/offer opinions or facts on how to. It amazes me sometimes just seeing how helpful outside eyes can help solve things like this. Just don't let me open any shells, lol.
One of my computer science profs in college used to say “beware of CompSci majors wielding screwdrivers.”
I dare say, I resemble that remark!
@Dave NYC Hudson PRR K4 posted:It's always good to have a few extra eyes look at things and help fix/offer opinions or facts on how to. It amazes me sometimes just seeing how helpful outside eyes can help solve things like this. Just don't let me open any shells, lol.
Dave, ….you are the keeper of the thread on this one!……you kept the records on the straight & narrow!……all one has to do is scroll through your lists, and determine if they want to take action or not…….what really struck my cords is the whiners stayed away and didn’t clutter the thread,……so we’ve got 10 or so odd pages of design elements, thought processes, locomotive identification, timeline clarification, you name it!…..makes for a great body of work,……and Dave did all hunter/gatherer work and kept the list current…….🤗🤗🤗🤗🤗 ( my pseudo round of applause for you Dave! )
Pat
@rplst8 posted:If you’re wondering if it has the problem, you don’t have to look, it has the exact same problem.
If you do open it, be careful of the black bunting on the engine. It’s very fragile.
Oh yeah, I know it is the same design as all the previous Legacy K4's and would have the same issue. No problem there. This is a great thread showing workable solutions so that is dandy as well.
As far as the bunting, I was going to be tempted to remove it so I could just run the loco as an early 20's version and not necessarily the funeral train specfic one, but either way it doesn't matter that much I guess. I'm sure even though it was a BTO it just didn't sell well due to the funeral motif which I guess is understandable but hey it is an early K4 with extended piston rods and the smaller Atlantic tender ( I know not exactly right but as close as they will get with existing tooling).
@Dennis Holler posted:Oh yeah, I know it is the same design as all the previous Legacy K4's and would have the same issue. No problem there. This is a great thread showing workable solutions so that is dandy as well.
As far as the bunting, I was going to be tempted to remove it so I could just run the loco as an early 20's version and not necessarily the funeral train specfic one, but either way it doesn't matter that much I guess. I'm sure even though it was a BTO it just didn't sell well due to the funeral motif which I guess is understandable but hey it is an early K4 with extended piston rods and the smaller Atlantic tender ( I know not exactly right but as close as they will get with existing tooling).
Well about the bunting, was it not a common thing to have some fanfare for displaying newer engines, or special engines(regardless of being a funeral train) to show them off? If I had been able to just buy the engine itself, I would have, but part of the reason other than being a complete set would have been not having enough cash on hand.
I do know that some engines celebrating anniversaries, service milestones, or special events would have the bunting on. I guess part of the problem with the funeral train is the bunting being black though. You would more than likely see reds, blues, or even the stars and stripes bunting instead of black.
@harmonyards posted:I haven’t had the funeral engine come across my plate yet, …..( or at least with the shell on) …
Pat
Lol! There's a joke in there somewhere!
It's only a funeral engine if you don't get to the gearbox in time Pat.😆🤣😉
@RickO posted:Lol! There's a joke in there somewhere!
It's only a funeral engine if you don't get to the gearbox in time Pat.😆🤣😉
It’ll be late to it’s own funeral then Rick!!…..🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Pat
@Dave NYC Hudson PRR K4 posted:Well about the bunting, was it not a common thing to have some fanfare for displaying newer engines, or special engines(regardless of being a funeral train) to show them off? If I had been able to just buy the engine itself, I would have, but part of the reason other than being a complete set would have been not having enough cash on hand.
I do know that some engines celebrating anniversaries, service milestones, or special events would have the bunting on. I guess part of the problem with the funeral train is the bunting being black though. You would more than likely see reds, blues, or even the stars and stripes bunting instead of black.
When it shows up, I will post some pictures of the bunting if I can lol It woul dlook really cool with stars and stripes on the bunting though I totally agree.
While I have recieved the Harding set and run it around the layout a few times, I haven't opened it up yet. That said, I did pull the used Polar K4 down off the shelf and it seems a bit rough lol. Granted that is just running conventional but at a steady throttle point. I'll open it up and see how bad it is lol.
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Hard to hear if there is anything going on inside there Dennis. The sputtering could be something else besides the gearbox perhaps, hard to say. I guess we'll see what it all looks like when you open it up.
Ok, I pulled the Polar K4 apart and that intermediate gear is pretty loosey goosey.
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@Dennis Holler ………🤮….you’re no stranger to danger Dennis, catch me via profile, and I’ll send you the dimensions if you want to duplicate my part,…..I know you got a good supply of stock and junk like I do …..
Pat
Wow, that's a lot of play.
@Dave NYC Hudson PRR K4 posted:Wow, that's a lot of play.
I think Dennis has a record holder,……his goes clear across from one side to the other,…..one more mm and I’d bet the intermediate shaft could jam up in the spokes!!!….😬
Pat
Yeah Pat. Out of all the ones that you've shown jumping around, his definitely goes way past the out of bounds line or yikes line.
I’ve had a few dozen of these come across my plate now Dave, and while I’ve had some doozies, I have no idea how Dennis’s could even be running!!…
Pat
Gear Box List Updated on page 1
Heck Pat, I did not realize that Dennis's engine was not on the list. I added the Polar Railroad 6-11331 conventional from 2011 to the list.
ok so is anyone selling the brass stock with set screw?
@prrhorseshoecurve posted:ok so is anyone selling the brass stock with set screw?
Read page 1, first post ….
Pat
@Dave NYC Hudson PRR K4 posted:Gear Box List Updated on page 1
Heck Pat, I did not realize that Dennis's engine was not on the list. I added the Polar Railroad 6-11331 conventional from 2011 to the list.
Thank you Dave!…
Thanks Pat, I'll shoot you an email here in a bit! Like I say, I bought that Polar K4 used so have no idea how much run time the PO put on it. At least all the legacy stuff works fine so this should be an easy fix. Looks like the Bronze idler gear wheel is still in good shape. I'll find out how worn that little bushing in the chassis is I guess when I take it all the way apart. Would be a good time to repaint it in a PRR scheme if it wasn't cold outside lol.
Also just to clarify, it is the Legacy version of the Polar K4 but I was running it in conventional format on my ZW. The box is up in my attic so not sure what the SKU number is at the moment, but I'm sure both the conventional and Legacy versions suffer the same problem.
This thread is a great resource!
Dave, looks like the Legacy SKU is 6-11330 so I guess you can add that one to the list as well. 
@Dennis Holler posted:I'll find out how worn that little bushing in the chassis is I guess when I take it all the way apart. Would be a good time to repaint it in a PRR scheme if it wasn't cold outside lol.
If you shine a light behind the middle driver you can see the bushing with the shaft in it. Moving the loco back and forth a bit with the gearbox locked, i.e with the motor still attached etc will show any obvious wear.
The shaft will do more rocking than rolling. On my 11328 the bushing on the engineers side actually started producing bronze shavings....maybe it was more brass than bronze, thus the wear. My engine had 1 hour of run time tops.
@Dennis Holler posted:Dave, looks like the Legacy SKU is 6-11330 so I guess you can add that one to the list as well.
Okay, I will do that when I get home. It's really tough to edit on the phone. Thank you for that information.
@harmonyards posted:I’ve had a few dozen of these come across my plate now Dave, and while I’ve had some doozies, I have no idea how Dennis’s could even be running!!…
That looks a lot like the chassis I sent you that had failed. It looks like there's some chunks out of the gear teeth on Dennis's K4, he's skating on the edge!
@gunrunnerjohn posted:That looks a lot like the chassis I sent you that had failed. It looks like there's some chunks out of the gear teeth on Dennis's K4, he's skating on the edge!
Correct, ….yours was completely missing the worm John, I did a before & after test ( yours was the original Guinea pig ) so we know the fix can save them,……I’d imagine there are some brutal ones out there that can’t be saved, but so far what’s come across my plate have all been saved,…..I would have no problems putting that chassis you sent me back in service……
Pat
That's great news. My K4 fleet is still boxed and unopened waiting for me to send out, along with Mikados. One project at a time. Haha
Okay, updated once again. 
@harmonyards posted:Correct, ….yours was completely missing the worm John, I did a before & after test ( yours was the original Guinea pig ) so we know the fix can save them,……I’d imagine there are some brutal ones out there that can’t be saved, but so far what’s come across my plate have all been saved,…..I would have no problems putting that chassis you sent me back in service……
Pat
Hmm.
Pat I think I have one in the junk parts box I changed out that came in for repair some time ago. Might have to send you a pic to see if it can be saved to repair when one comes in.
The one you fixed for me ran great over the holidays.
Jim
