Lionel Locomotives shipping early

That sounds about right based upon my allocation numbers

Don't understand why Lionel would expect a number of people to spend $1299.00 on fantasy paint schemes for their yellowstones.

How bout you?

Good Day,

Are there any SD70ACe's, ES44AC's or AC6000CW's in the new catalog?

Regards,

Swafford

WAY TO GO LIONEL. A GREAT COMPANY.

THANKS, ALEX

I think what they know these are shipping in the next two weeks - no real "early" involved here.   Lionel's shipping schedule lists "March" for the Yellowstones or EM-1s or whatever you want to call them. 

I suppose, because in the past people have paid that for similar fantasy schemes on other locos?

Guess we will just have to wait and see. Here is one SD70ACe paint scheme that I would really like to see. 

http://www.flickr.com/photos/johnfladung/6182644813/

Don't know what it means, but the EM-1s are not now listed on Lionel's shipping schedule - they were last week - listed as March '12.  As of two minutes ago, they aren't there.  11337, 11340, 11374-77 just are missing lines now.

This could be ominous (deliver pushed back until . . ?) or good (they're changing the text to "shipped: - Oh joy!).  I choose to remain optimistic.

Dewey,

The Southern Crescent Limited cab number 1396 has two chuffs per revolution.  It also has an incorrect whistle.  Mine also has much less detail than the Ps-4 released shortly after with cab number 1403. If the new legacy controlled engine has the correct quillable Southern long bell three chime, I may have to jump on it. 

I'm still waiting for a correct Southern Ms-4.

Can anyone provide a price point for the Shay's?

thx

if LIONEL re-issues the Southern Ps-4 1396 I wounder if the new railsounds chip will work in the 1st released Southern Ps-4 locomotive.

I don't have the latest and greatest but no need for me to buy more Southern Ps-4s. The same applies for my SRR Mikado herd---no Heavy Mikado---no buy!

Lionel is apparently recycling Mike Wolfs original 4501 Ms Mikado design just before he departed Lionel. Reruns are good for newbies but too many $$$ for me to just increase the roster of duplicates with a slight difference.

I have five Southern 4-6-2s: two MTH, two Lionel, and my first one, a Williams brass model from around 1990. One MTH and the Williams are both numbered 1401 and have remained conventional. The others are TMCC/RS 4--the MTH 1396 Ltd. being an early T/A conversion.

Any update as to why the EM-1s were removed from the shipping schedule?

When I inquired about th EM-1,a long time reputable Lionel Hobby Store told me that the shipment was expected at the END of March.

Hey, that means delivery at my LHS in early April - that's good good enough for me!  Only 2-3 weeks . . . good timing - its sort of a nice reward for the torture of finishing my 1040 and sending it in.  

Actually, the 1403 wasn't really released "shortly after" the 1396 Crescent - the 1403 was cataloged in 2006, and the 1396 back in 2003, so there was a three year spread, a long time in terms of electronic advancements. The 1403 has 4 chuffs, and R/S 5, versus 2 chuffs, as you note, and R/S 4 in the older Crescent. There are lots of other improvements in the 1403 as well, such as improved Odyssey with on/off control, improved smoke system, etc. 

I was interested in the new Legacy Crescent, but it's priced over twice what I paid for my 1403 (got it recently from a Forum member). Given how well the engines that are immediately pre-Legacy run and sound with the Legacy control system, and the high cost of these new engines, it's seems unlikely there'd be enough improvement to justify a switch. These new engines are nothing if not expensive.

I assume Lionel will be making new sets of cars for these passenger engines - hard to believe they wouldn't. They could also be in this new catalog...we'll find out soon enough. I can't imagine anyone would pony up for the new Crescent or Alton or Comet engines if matching passenger cars weren't offered as well.

J Daddy, if you really want a Z-5 would you consider a Sunset 3rd Rail Z-5?  Better yet, would you consider THE actual model in the "highrailjon" YouTube video?  Please contact me from my profile if you have any interest.

Thank you!

Dewey, they looked more to me like the K-Line Mikes, but it is hard to tell from the pics I saw.  I have one of those early ones in Frisco paint, and they just don't quite look the same.

I do not advocate higher prices, but I don't understand (brand new or not) how you can compare a "second hand priced " loco to msrp? Everyone wants to complain about higher prices and yet no one bothers to check what the MSRP was on the previous release that was "such a good deal" second hand. MSRP on the 2006 crescent was $999, the newest version is $1099. I think $100 for some new and improved features is not that terribly unreasonable. Some of the larger sellers are pricing these under $1000. While there is outrage over $100,consider that the last EM1 lionel offered back in 2000 has an MSRP that is $200 MORE than the legacy version. Lionel sets the MSRP, what happens after the item leaves the shelf is based solely on what WE want to pay for it on the second hand market. With your type of thinking on price MW should be hanged for the 50%+ hit anything from the railking line takes on the second hand market. If you look back Lionels prices really haven't gone up much over the last 12 years, and for every loco that goes up $100-$150,theres one like the k-4 that goes down $150, and the legacy k-4 is a far better performer as well as a more correct model of the prototype than the version back in 2002. Theres always the S-3...........

I think this is a good point.  I will say, however, that generally I prefer the Legacy rather than Vision lines -- I think the Legacy offerings at around $1000-$1200 offer more value than the $1600 - $2000+ prices for Vision -- although I will buy Vision to when its the only way I can get a new version of the particular loco I want with the latest features.

It is hard to know how the final model will look based upon the picture they are using in the catalogs. For the most part I think the models look much better than they are depicted in the book.

Does anyone else feel the same way?

That goes for MTH and Lionel. The Legacy K-4 mentioned above is a perfect example of this. We had no idea how nice that model would be based upon the catalog.

I agree it is hard to tell from a picture, both because it may not be accurate and it is usually a tiny rendering.  But the 2011 Lionel Northern and Mallet (both non-cataloged, both announced and delivered late last year) were exactly what I expected -- based partly both on the picture but mostly what I expected based on previous Legacy locos.  

The MTH European 241.A, on the other hand, was a pleasant and big surprise.  The pictures in the catalog made it look detailed but there was no way I was prepared to detail, paint at that level.

My Southern K Line Mikados were made with the Lima Build Plates and were made for the Alabama Great Southern subsidiary 6600 series. Southern's only Lima Mikados were owned by AGS. The K Line models certainly aren't clones of the the original Lionel family of Mikados, but they are certainly are double first cousins. 

However, the photos I saw of the alleged "new" Lionel do not match the two Lima K Lines I have.

Not a matter of great concern to most I expect. Earlier I was just explaining why I don't need to buy any more Southern Mikes and Pacifics unless of course someone make an Ms-4.

The Southern #1403 Ps-4 is overall the best of the bunch.

looks like the shipping schedule updated today to show all the 2012 Sneak Peek items as being shipped.

 Maybe we'll see some pics and video of these before York!

I have a B&O Em-1 on order, but I'd like to have that Southern Crescent - would like to see one first, though.  Not sure I'll get the chance before they are gone. 

It's a good thing I have that DMIR caboose waiting on a siding.

Audidriven,

Thanks for  the invite. I will take a peek on Youtube...

What you say is true, but you missed my point. It's not to compare the old MSRP with the new MSRP. Rather, the point is that with such similar engines as the new ones already out in the market, the new ones are going to be in competition with the older ones, as is true in my case. Given the price differencial in current actual acquision cost, the market for the new engines is going to be limited to the extent current owners decide it isn't worth the significant additional cost to make a relatively small improvement in performance.

Obviously it's up to the prospective buyer to determine whether it's worth doubling his investment for a relatively small increase in performance. What is "relatively small?" That also depends on the individual's determination, but there seems little doubt that the last generation of Lionel engines made just before Legacy are, when used with a Legacy control system, very close in performance to the Legacy engines.

This will  all become very obvious in the coming year why the sudden rush to release so many roadnames  in Legacy to help support the unveiling.Did you forget about the sensor under the legacy engines?

I understand how people feel about paying these prices on what, for them, is an upgrade, but I've been in O gauge for only 5 years, and I don't have an older Yellowstone or EM-1, so I'm getting that.  No doubt five to ten years from now I'll be where a lot of others here are now -- "Is this really worth that much just for the upgrade?"  I think the answer will probably be no.

I do have a couple of Pacific locos, but they are old (one has no sound) and not truly scale and not at all detailed, so I really am looking at the Southern Crescent.  Again, when I had one I'd be reluctance to buy another down the road until the new electronics allows it to get up and dance a jig while singing the song, too.

Any news on what else maybe in the upcoming catalog?

Second that. The sneak peak didn't really thrill me, just a bunch of repeats with new paint schemes. I'm STILL hoping for an Amtrak Superliner re-release!

Oh yes, that sensor. But who knows what, and who knows when? And when this whatever-it-will-be is actually finally on dealers' shelves, these engines available now will be how old? And by then, they may very well be available at a cheaper price on the secondary market. And so it goes.

For those who already have one of the older versions of these engines, spending the dough now to replace it because of an unknown sensor is betting on the come.  Obviously, getting one of the new models now is a tougher decision for them than for someone buying the engine for the first time. And if the new sensor-related operation is wonderous (as we all hope), these new engines will still be around.

Whats with all of the angst over this locomotive, if you want it buy it, if you don't,don't. If you want to wait a few years and get one cheaper, wait a few years and get one cheaper. No ones holding a gun to your head and forcing you to buy it. Theres no reason to "replace" the older one, just keep it. If know one buys the legacy crescent because they agree with your ideas, then they'll sell at "blowout prices" and it will be a win-win for you. Relax, run your trains.

The Lionel website shows the 11258 Mikado and the 11334 Ps-4 have shipped.

Neal Jeter

That Southern PS4 is just too gorgeous.  I have to have one, too. 

breezinup, you may be correct.  I purchased the engine used and only ran it a couple of times so my memory may be flawed.  I do remember I did not think the sounds were as good as the 1396 from 2003.

Happy railroading,

Don