Does anyone know if Lionel has had any comment reference these problems...?
Craignor posted:I have never seen new O gauge products, or ANY new products for that matter, arrive so screwed up...Lionel should be ashamed.
Actually, I believe the QC issues were always there, it just these cars were so long awaited that they are sure drawing the spotlight.
If I had to bet a beer. I would think there will be another run of cars for repair.
just stopping in for a little ***Update***
2nd UP set arrived from Charles Ro....perfect, not a single blemish!
I've been reading this post for a while and while I would certainly be frustrated at the lack of QC, at least half of the issues I've seen can be fixed in an evening at the work bench. Not sure why everyone is returning fixable sets to their dealer. We call ourselves model railroaders, let's do some modeling and fix problems.
Will Ebbert posted:I've been reading this post for a while and while I would certainly be frustrated at the lack of QC, at least half of the issues I've seen can be fixed in an evening at the work bench. Not sure why everyone is returning fixable sets to their dealer. We call ourselves model railroaders, let's do some modeling and fix problems.
The next time you buy a new car/home/appliance/etc. and have as much quality control problems as these folks are having, remember you said this! What a disgrace!
Will Ebbert posted:I've been reading this post for a while and while I would certainly be frustrated at the lack of QC, at least half of the issues I've seen can be fixed in an evening at the work bench. Not sure why everyone is returning fixable sets to their dealer. We call ourselves model railroaders, let's do some modeling and fix problems.
"Not sure why everyone is returning fixable sets to their dealer." BECAUSE we are paying for "good quality" upon arrival. We are not "service stations" or "customer service". The prices we are paying DEMAND quality NOT here "fix" what never should have never been sent out. We want to unpack it, run it, admire it, enjoy it - NOT spend "OUR TIME" correcting Lionel's lack of "quality control"!
SURFLINER posted:Will Ebbert posted:I've been reading this post for a while and while I would certainly be frustrated at the lack of QC, at least half of the issues I've seen can be fixed in an evening at the work bench. Not sure why everyone is returning fixable sets to their dealer. We call ourselves model railroaders, let's do some modeling and fix problems.
"Not sure why everyone is returning fixable sets to their dealer." BECAUSE we are paying for "good quality" upon arrival. We are not "service stations" or "customer service". The prices we are paying DEMAND quality NOT here "fix" what never should have never been sent out. We want to unpack it, run it, admire it, enjoy it - NOT spend "OUR TIME" correcting Lionel's lack of "quality control"!
And also had to wait 2 years!
I'm not saying you don't have a right to be upset. You do. It's pitiful that they are coming like this and especially that they don't a have parts inventory, but things like name plates and windows being lose are easy fixes.
Frank,
I am happy to hear you received a perfect set of UP Excursion cars. I would love to see pictures so I know what a perfect set looks like.
Perhaps your perfect set came from the effort of your dealer's service team combining several sets to get you the set you received. This is most likely the case based on other dealer's experiences.
I would love to see a picture(s) of the palette(s) that the your dealer sends back to Lionel. Your dealer has a long and excellent reputation. I sense that extra effort and care was given to re-boxing these sets, based on the waits other buyers have had, waiting for their items from your dealer.
Congratulations again.
Will Ebbert posted:I'm not saying you don't have a right to be upset. You do. It's pitiful that they are coming like this and especially that they don't a have parts inventory, but things like name plates and windows being lose are easy fixes.
If you could easily remove the car body!
John Rowlen posted:Frank,
I am happy to hear you received a perfect set of UP Excursion cars. I would love to see pictures so I know what a perfect set looks like.
***I dont have any pictures of them, but I do have a low light video I took of them yesterday when I did a test run. My earlier video in this thread shows the first set. In this video the 2nd flag car and an additional coach has been added.
Perhaps your perfect set came from the effort of your dealer's service team combining several sets to get you the set you received. This is most likely the case based on other dealer's experiences.
***I cant say for sure, but I dont think thats the case. The reason I say that is because the shipping boxes/cartons all appeared untouched. The brown paper shipping tape looked all original an in tact. Looks as if they just put a shipping label on them and sent them.
I would love to see a picture(s) of the palette(s) that the your dealer sends back to Lionel. Your dealer has a long and excellent reputation. I sense that extra effort and care was given to re-boxing these sets, based on the waits other buyers have had, waiting for their items from your dealer.
***Yes, they are a great dealer! But again, nothing appears to have been opened and repackaged. But then again, I could be wrong.
Congratulations again.
***Thanks, now I wish my luck was this good with playing the lottery!
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JFC454 posted:Will Ebbert posted:I'm not saying you don't have a right to be upset. You do. It's pitiful that they are coming like this and especially that they don't a have parts inventory, but things like name plates and windows being lose are easy fixes.
If you could easily remove the car body!
It can be done but certainly not as easily as Lionel intended (four screws to remove and it's off). The guy who posted earlier about using coffee stirring sticks to hold the shell away from the double-sided tape applied to hold the windows in place was right. I used this in getting the shell off of my Overland Diner:
Of course I only had to do this at the present stage to make sure there there were no pinched wires as happened with my first run Texas Special diner. I have opened some of those earlier cars already with no problem at all.
The Texas Special dome car is disassembled at the moment to install overhead lights in the dome (whether that's prototypical or not) and I checked to see how the windows were fixed in place. As you can see below, much narrower tape of the same kind was used, so I guess that the factory just used what it had on hand when the second run cars were assembled and no one took into account Lionel's original design objective:
@Dave Olson: Is there going to be some assurance that these problems won't recur in the Challenger sets? BTW, you could sell some additional Excursion cars to me if I had confidence in the build quality.
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Trainlover9943 posted:
Thanks; previous post amended.
Will Ebbert posted:I've been reading this post for a while and while I would certainly be frustrated at the lack of QC, at least half of the issues I've seen can be fixed in an evening at the work bench. Not sure why everyone is returning fixable sets to their dealer. We call ourselves model railroaders, let's do some modeling and fix problems.
Not on a $1000 set of passenger cars, they better be pristine & perfect. Fixing a $20 Menards car is OK not a $200 Lionel passenger car.
Bill
Bill T posted:Will Ebbert posted:I've been reading this post for a while and while I would certainly be frustrated at the lack of QC, at least half of the issues I've seen can be fixed in an evening at the work bench. Not sure why everyone is returning fixable sets to their dealer. We call ourselves model railroaders, let's do some modeling and fix problems.
Not on a $1000 set of passenger cars, they better be pristine & perfect. Fixing a $20 Menards car is OK not a $200 Lionel passenger car.
Bill
This is one of those situations where both posts are essentially correct. As model railroaders, we should be willing to tinker with minor issues rather than pay for shipping an item back for repair (I used to say there's no such thing as "ready to run"). That said, some of these issues are so glaring they should have been picked up at inspection, especially with a $150-200 unit.
My guess is that these QC issues were caused by China rushing to the shipment of passenger cars.
Rocky Mountaineer posted:Which is EXACTLY why everybody who purchased the 21" cars from this production run needs to check their cars immediately upon receiving them. Years ago, we could buy this stuff little-by-little and stash them on a shelf with plans of a dream layout years away in retirement. Not. Any. More.
David
Just wait for this to re-surface in a few years when new people to the hobby buy a few "mint" "NOS" items from dealers or people who bought sets and never opened them.
-Dave
Got my first look at them today.......where are the people?
Trainchief posted:Got my first look at them today.......where are the people?
Lionel discontinued populating their passenger cars when they switched away from aluminum construction to ABS materials. This group of passenger cars is the second without factory-installed people. The original plan per Mike Reagan was to make the new 21" passenger cars very straightforward for consumers to populate the cars to their heart's content. And the first run of ABS 21" cars achieved that objective. Lionel even offers a nice pack of passengers for this purpose. But something went amiss on this latest 2nd production run, and it's a bit more challenging (than just removing 4 screws) to get inside the passenger compartment now. Still doable -- just not as straightforward as originally intended.
David
My pre-order is on its way to me. My ~"L"HS (not really that Local) just contacted me that they were at the store and being shipped. They were unaware of the issues some people might be having, and were unwilling to open the still sealed boxes to inspect. Let's hope mine don't have issues. There is more to this story, but if all is fine, it will be much ado about nothing...
Frank, Thanks for the video. There is something magical about running a passenger train in low light.
Here are some pictures from my detailing of my Broadway Limited Kitchen Car. The steps I took are posted in another thread on OGR Forum. I plan to add a Lounge space in the middle of the car for employees to use for a break when working in the kitchen, or at night for conversations when others are sleeping in the Dorm room.
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VADarthDad posted:My pre-order is on its way to me. My ~"L"HS (not really that Local) just contacted me that they were at the store and being shipped. They were unaware of the issues some people might be having, and were unwilling to open the still sealed boxes to inspect. Let's hope mine don't have issues. There is more to this story, but if all is fine, it will be much ado about nothing...
Wonderful dealer, if they won't even do this on request. Likes being the middle man to collect their cut of the profit on the cars, but not willing to take any of the risk in delivering the product to the customer.
Can you imagine walking into a store and being told you can't look at the item you are about to buy before completing the transaction, and if there is anything wrong with what's in the box, you now need to deal with the company that made it?
Do you know how they will respond if yours DO have issues? Will they support you by offering an exchange as John Rowlen's dealer has, or will they tell you to deal with Lionel? (which will be difficult as other's have stated Lionel's answer is to return to your dealer for a refund)
This astonishing thread makes me wonder about the future of Lionel, a company I have loved through thick and thin for a very long time.
Hal
HMS2035 posted:This astonishing thread makes me wonder about the future of Lionel, a company I have loved through thick and thin for a very long time.
Hal
I don't think the passenger cars are the Herald of Lionel' s demise.
Ok, check this CSX StationSounds car out, I think it’s fine.
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Could someone post a video of the stationsounds in the CSX Dining car?
I had a few windows pop out assuming from shipping. I finally managed to open one with two windows out thanks to tops for this thread. I think this will become a service. Nightmare for Lionel in the future. The dome tail car I have have is mainly held on with glue. The front has pads for the floor to screw into but the rear had nothing. The two rear screws basically screw into the body floor and the air with no tabs which fix it onto the body shell. The windows which fell out did not have plastic tabs on the top, with only tape holding it at the bottom. With the rest of the windows it’s a combo of plastic tabs and tape. It may likely dry out over time but only time will tell. For price OK I’m willing to accept it considering the alternatives and prices for them.
Peter Araujo posted:Could someone post a video of the stationsounds in the CSX Dining car?
I second this.
I bought a nyc add on pack and within five minutes the car was smoking light board blew and the up cars man they are bad! The flag car wouldn’t turn on the tracks upon further inspection the bottom was forced up into the car and the station sounds diner shorted out my power pack and it had a hole drilled in the roof yes a hole in the roof! And scuff marks all over the car I sent it back to Charles Ro but have not heard anything about it yet. Waiting to see if I get refund or a new car
Spoke with my dealer/point of purchase on my damaged UP set. They have rolled through their existing inventory and are unable to refill a replacement. Does anyone have a dealer recommendation that I may be able to source a kit from? It would be icing on the cake if they would be willing to open and ensure the cars are not damaged prior to shipping.
Nicholas Smith Trains. Ask for Joey. Tell him Eliot Scher sent you. 😜😛
Scrapiron Scher posted:Nicholas Smith Trains. Ask for Joey. Tell him Eliot Scher sent you. 😜😛
Thank you very much Eliot! I left a message earlier but will mention you when I can get in touch with Joey!
Well, my UP Excursion Car set finally arrived this afternoon. With all the anxiety and photographic proof of defects, I was in no mood to even open them. I just put the box in our office to add them to my inventory later and closed the door.
But then my curiosity got the best of me. Better to find out now so I could sleep tonight and then send back the defective cars tomorrow. I kept the office door closed so the cats wouldn't come in and possibly get injured during my anticipated rage.
Even as I was opening the shipping cartons I could feel myself tensing up. I opened the four pack first, then the StationSounds diner, then the two pack.
I looked them all over, and OH MY GOSH!!!, they were all in great shape! I must live a charmed life! No glaring defects. They were all good, even after shipping from the east coast. But not entirely perfect.
On the baggage car one of the trucks had a hard time turning side to side. It seems that the car floor was pushed to far up inside the shell, causing the truck to rub on the bottom of the shell. I'm not a 'modeler', I'm an out of the box runner, but I think even I could fix that. But I still have a wary eye towards pre-ordering where once I didn't.
Traindiesel posted:On the baggage car one of the trucks had a hard time turning side to side. It seems that the car floor was pushed to far up inside the shell, causing the truck to rub on the bottom of the shell. I'm not a 'modeler', I'm an out of the box runner, but I think even I could fix that. But I still have a wary eye towards pre-ordering where once I didn't.
I had the same issue on my generator. Turns out the clip which holds the truck mount post was jammed in on the post. A lot of folks are replacing these factory clips with some from Home Depot. Oddly enough I found two or three random clips laying inside the car boxes but have found none missing on any of the cars. Almost like they were thrown in there as extras. Lol
I haven't dissected mine with a fine tooth comb yet, but so far I didn't see any glaring issues. Have done nothing other than take them out of box, however.
Budkole posted:jeremy ferrell posted:Any chance of replacing the entire truck with the atlas adjustable trucks likes on their zephyr cars. not the cheapest I'm sure but if you could make it work it'd give you adjustability.
Today I used your idea on the older aluminum mail car, it lowered it considerably and it now matches the rest of the excursion set.
Now we need someone to try them on the new cars. I ordered a set of trucks but haven't got them yet.
jeremy ferrell posted:Budkole posted:jeremy ferrell posted:Any chance of replacing the entire truck with the atlas adjustable trucks likes on their zephyr cars. not the cheapest I'm sure but if you could make it work it'd give you adjustability.
Today I used your idea on the older aluminum mail car, it lowered it considerably and it now matches the rest of the excursion set.
Now we need someone to try them on the new cars. I ordered a set of trucks but haven't got them yet.
I'd be interested in seeing that too. Where do you get the trucks from? Direct from Atlas?
A question for those that have operated their dining cars.
When I place my dining car on the track with the under car light switch in the “On” position the interior lights do not work. Do the lights need to be activated with command control? Or am I missing something else?
Thanks!
Frank, I noticed your dining car does not have the interior lights on in the video. Is the switch under the car in the On position during this video? Have you been able to get the lights on the dining car to turn on?
Thanks
