Lionel no. 700EW

Mike,

Welcome to the Forum. When you come up with questions just ask away. Lots of good people here who can help you out. Treasure your Dad's trains and the memories they hold.

Mike,

Welcome to the OGR Forum. I believe that you will find that what you have will work and with some TLC you be able to re-create the legacy that you have inherited. It will be worth it. Involve the family and have fun! 

Your 700EW is a highly prized collectors item. If you still have them, even the original boxes are valuable.

I hope you enjoy owning and running your train set.

Dennis Waldron, among others, is an expert on this Hudson.  If you want his contact, please email me at the email in my profile.  Great engine you have there!

Welcome to the forum!

I was not able to find the 700EW set but found a 700E engine from around 1937 to 1942 and it is a 4-6-4 scale Hudson, cab # 5344, in good to excellent shape according to Greenberg's guide is worth between $1400.00 and $2390.00, a very much desired engine and tender by collectors.

I would keep it and run it carefully. Maybe buy some new tubular track and wide radius switches(042 or larger) if you need to.

I have a pre war 224E & tender with a passenger set and I will not sell it. I have replaced the E unit with a rebuilt one but other then that it still runs good.

Lee Fritz

quote:

I was not able to find the 700EW set but found a 700E engine from around 1937 to 1942 and it is a 4-6-4 scale Hudson, cab # 5344, in good to excellent shape according to Greenberg's guide is worth between $1400.00 and $2390.00, a very much desired engine and tender by collectors.

I would keep it and run it carefully. Maybe buy some new tubular track and wide radius switches(042 or larger) if you need to.

Condition is everything. 2390 for an original 700EW in excellent condition (without boxes) sounds low. But I am no expert on the scale Hudson.

Lionel made 072 track for the scale hudson. It might require T rail. I am not certain.

I don't think that it will require T rail, most likely it may require 072 curves and switches. If it does require T rail; much success on finding T rail track!

Lee Fritz

The 700EW has scale-proportioned flanges, meaning that they are smaller than traditional 3-rail wheel flanges.  This can cause operational issues on tubular track.  T-Rail track was designed with the 700EW specifically in mind.

Nowadays you have t-shaped track like Atlas O and MTH ScaleTrax/RealTrax so it's not like it has to be T-Rail or nothing.

The OP should know that an original 5344 is really an engine that should be a "shelf queen" in a display case.  They are heavy engines, without magnetraction don't pull all that well, have no smoke or whistle, the cast zinc metallurgy is fragile, and one topple off of the tracks and there goes the value or at least some of it. They are the rarest of the rare Lionel steam engines and collectors typically own them for bragging rights. I've never met a collector that runs one regularly on any layout as the many reissues look better, run better and have all of the extra features.

Consider yourself lucky to own the "Holy Grail" of O scale model railroading.

Welcome to the forum. Don't be afraid to ask questions. The ones who have offered assistance thus far have a combined years of experience of more than two centuries. 

It would be wise to NOT RUN your Hudson. Your locomotive was NOT made for those new to the hobby. It does require 072 T-Rail and nothing else will do. Any attempt to use tube track will result in expensive repairs. These repairs most often cannot be made by just anyone. Years of experience and specialized tools are needed. Do not attempt these repairs yourself.

Once again, welcome to the OGR Forum. May your experiences in the hobby be rewarding.  

From his description it sounds like he already has the track for it.  He said the last time it was set up was in 1972.   So let's not confuse the issue. 

The 700E is a scale engine and requires T-Rail track to operate. Use caution when handling the loco as the castings may be quite fragile and will crumble. The W means Whistle. 

Gandy

Apparently he already has the track.  However, the 700E will operate on any track with a flat topped rail cross section and at least 0-72 radius - which includes Ross, Gargraves, Atlas, and Scaletrax.  Switches are another matter as the frogs are designed for deeper flanges.

I believe that the 5344 was made with two types of wheels to fit T rail track or regular track.  The flanges on the wheels were smaller on the T rail version but it may have been only the front truck that also had smaller wheels. In any event I would not worry about running this engine as with use, the value will go down. It doesn't make any sense to put wear or stress on a rare expensive engine when you can get the same look with a $600 scale Hudson.

I want to start by saying thank you to everyone that has taken the time to reply.  This "train set", I'm so new to this hobby that I'm not even sure what to call it, will always stay in my family.  As I said earlier my father got it as a Christmas present from his mother in 1937.  My father is 83 and I'd love to get it set up for him to see it run again.  We have all the original tracks, buildings and electronics that my father stored away back in 1972, the last time he had it set up.  I guess my next step is going to spend some time and take pictures of what we have.  Spending the time is a no brainer because it will be spent with my Dad and I'm lucky enough to say that I can still do that with him.  I look forward to learning more about what we have and sharing it with everyone on the forum.  My plan is to keep everything as original as possible but have it run.  To those that have said that I should not run the 700 EW I agree but maybe a slow lap might be fun for my father and me.  I respect what I have and will make sure I research and do what I need to do to keep this "set" original.  The dollar figure will never matter to me because it is a gift from my father and I hope my daughter feels the same way some day.  Again thank you for everyone's response I look forward to sharing pictures and learning more.

I agree that it is his engine to run as he would like to do. It is very clear at this point that no one who has posted has had the chore of re-wheeling a 700E or a 763e. The first and hardest job is to locate the proper wheels as to not lower the value or reduce the selling point. I have had the honor(?) of doing so. Neither one of these locomotives is welcome on my workbench ever again.

Well said.  I think it would be great for your father to see it running again.  Thanks for sharing and I'll look forward to seeing your pictures.  There are memories in that engine that a new loco just won't have.

PS: You may need to clean the motor and lube it if it doesn't want to run.  Check back if you have any questions.

I would advise you to lube the loco and tender and cars before you run them.  I recommend common motor oil, and you should be able to lube everything without taking the loco and cars apart.  You will have to remove the tender shell to lube the whistle motor.  There are two bearings for the whistle motor.  One is obvious, the other is hidden below the armature.

One of the most damaging things you can do to a Lionel train is to run it without proper lubrication.  There is no possible chance that the train does not need lubrication after 42 years in the box.

Mike, as Dennis mentioned above, carefully examine the casting of the engine and tender for signs of 'zinc pest' or 'rot'.  It is common, especially on the earliest 700E's.

The casting swells, cracks, and flakes away.  If any telltale signs are present handle the unit as little as possible.

I just repaired/rebuilt a Postwar 681 Turbine that was super clean and looked really good.  All drivers were frozen, the steps (apron) broken off, the magnet was weged tight.  Close examination revealed small cracks in the casting of the frame.  It was swelling.  The drivers were in gauge but the swelling frame was squeezing the bushings against the axles and drivers.

The only solution was to replace the frame.  Luckily I had one on hand.

PLease for your well being DON"T run this one. Get a clear case and put this

engine in it to display. I did this for years till I moved mine to; another owner,

he's doing the same thing. I bought a newer engine, Hudson , to run

Remember this advise is free, and may be disregarded.

Rod

welcome to the forum, I am sure you will get the answers you need here. I see you are from NJ, I belong to a model train club here. we are the NJ Hi-Railers in Paterson. we have members who would be glad to assist you with any problems you might have setting this up. please feel free to email me (in my profile) or pay us a visit. we are there every Wednesday and have an open house Sunday March 23rd. good luck

There isn't a consensus on whether Lionel made a 700EWX with deeper flanges and blind center drivers. Some reference materials say the did, others say they didn't.

Boy, the OGR board sure has changed over the years. I am surprised at the number of people who say to keep it as a shelf piece.

Zinc disease is caused by trace amounts of certain metals other than zinc.  Lead is a prime cause of zinc disease.  If the loco is showing signs of zinc disease, there is no way to stop it completely.  Water in the air is what causes it.  So, if you want to preserve the loco by putting it in an enclosed display, put some desiccant in the display to keep it dry.  You will have to change the desiccant frequently.  

The operators are still here CW. I for one would not hesitate to run it and if it broke I would fix it even if it meant making my own parts. Since it was running 35 years after it was built why should it not run now? I was under the impression if parts were going to fail they would have done so a long time ago.

Pete

I'm not. 

Why not?

If I were going to run it, I would most likely make a carpet layout so that the loco could not be damaged by derailment.  

If the loco has zinc disease, it will be apparent.  I have two prewar locos with zinc diecast wheels, and none of the wheels are showing any zinc disease.  One is a 152, and the other is a 348.  The 152 was made prior to 1925, and the 348 prior to 1932.  Both run just fine.  Both have been in air conditioned storage for the last 20 years.

Well enjoy your new engine and set, they are beautiful trains. I am just about 

finished restoring one and it was when I received it a sad case, the boiler 

was broken and chassis as well, the boiler I rebuilt and I had to get a new 

700e-2 chassis which I had the task of reattaching all the wheels it was a job 

but I did it, there's still a few more thinks to do and it will be done. If you need 

any help ask away plus I'm in New York just over the river. It does seem to

run I Gargrave track but I'm looking for other track for it, if you get it up and

running you should use it once in awhile just to keep it active. enjoy it

Tin  

As many have stated you have THE classic locomotive in your possession.  I am an operator and perhaps a sometimes collector and run everything I own.  BUT, that being said, I would have someone who is knowledgeable regarding "zinc pest" or any other metallurgical  maladies to inspect your locomotive before attempting to operate it.  Your interests will be well served if you take up JohnS's offer to have the someone from the N.J. Highrailers inspect this magnificent engine.  To coin an old cliche', "An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure."  You have a true family heirloom on your hands so be careful while you enjoy it.

So true well stated.

Tin 

Not true John. T-Rail track was available well before the 700E Hudson was out of the drafting department. T-Rail first became available ot dealers in 1934 and in the catalog for 1935.

Dennis

Shelf queen? Seriously? I've worked on hundreds of 700E's and 763E's over the last 50+ years and have only had one that was a shelf queen, at the owners request. They were well designed and built to run and there's in no reason they shouldn't even if it takes a bit or work.

Dennis Waldron

Not necessarily Gandy. Only the 700E's with true scale flanges require T-Rail and only T-Rail. Gagraves and rest will not do as the think glange will climb the rail. Having said that, not all Hudson's are Humpty Dumpty's. Yes, they need to be handled somewhat carefully, but most will not crumble.

Dennis Waldron

Not true John. Only one of the prewar 700E's was made for tubular track, the 700EWX - all of the others require T-Rail.

Dennis,

The 1990 Hudson had two types of wheels on the pilot truck, the 700E did not, in spite of what the pundits have written. Were there some changes in the 700E-10 wheels, yes, but not for the purpose you mention. It's a myth, just like the myth about zincpest affecting the 700E. For years I've listen to the over the fence kibitzers talk about zincpest, and most haven't a clue as to what it is. Zincpest is due to lead contamination of the zinc alloy. When Scandia molded the first boiler, frames etc for Lionel, they use 99.99% pure zinc from NJ Zinc along with aluminum and copper to form the Zamac alloy. The contaminents were due to Caruso's need to try and reuse the old casting sprue and flashing from cleaned parts - swept up and added back to the kettle - a big no no. If you look deeply into Lionel's molding practice, they had the same problems in 1949-1951, and for exactly the same reasons.

Mike,

You have a prized engine and tender. All it requires is a little attention and TLC to run like a clock. Many times the cotton covered wire inside tends to rot, as does the rubber cushion between the motor flange and the worm flange, but other than these minor issue, a little attention will have it back good as new. Need help? Just let me know.

Dennis Waldron

Dennis is right about the the cloth wire, on mine it went bad so I changed it.

Tin 

If I had one, I'd run it at least once. If it belonged to family, and if it was a prime example, i.e. a "9", Id shelf it after. But otherwise Id try to run it to its death Trains are funner when they are runners .