Wow, Bruk, that looks great! Your whistle smoke is better than almost all of the Legacy steamers I have except the VL Niagara.
I can’t work out from the previous text/photos what smoke unit you have used for the whistle function but I imagine it’s a recent Legacy part? I also imagine that it has to maintain some heat in the unit to be ready for the feature to be activated but I have no clue as to how the Legacy boards manage that - especially in smoke units with plastic components.
Fine work Bruk. What are you doing about wiring harnesses, making your own or using Lionel's? To me, making my own is the most tedious, least interesting part.
I don't know how Lionel manages whistle steam but believe Dave said for the water overflow unit on the Niagara tender it gets a few seconds of higher voltage to heat up the resistor quickly then down to normal voltage.
Pete
Hancock52 posted:Wow, Bruk, that looks great! Your whistle smoke is better than almost all of the Legacy steamers I have except the VL Niagara.
I can’t work out from the previous text/photos what smoke unit you have used for the whistle function but I imagine it’s a recent Legacy part? I also imagine that it has to maintain some heat in the unit to be ready for the feature to be activated but I have no clue as to how the Legacy boards manage that - especially in smoke units with plastic components.
Thanks, I think so too.
The smoke units are the same used in the latest ESE Hudson. The RCMC board manages the heat and fans with help from a thermisister.
Norton posted:Fine work Bruk. What are you doing about wiring harnesses, making your own or using Lionel's? To me, making my own is the most tedious, least interesting part.
I don't know how Lionel manages whistle steam but believe Dave said for the water overflow unit on the Niagara tender it gets a few seconds of higher voltage to heat up the resistor quickly then down to normal voltage.
Pete
The harness has to be made from scratch, all wires have to be measures, cut, hand crimped and assembled. Lionel doesn’t offer any parts for harnesses. Thats why the labor charge is higher than a PS3 upgrade. It takes me hours to assemble it. I have to do it with both engine and tender. It does suck but its part of it. You can buy pre-crimped connectors and solder them together but I hate the look of heat shrink everywhere. I like a clean wire from plug to plug. Factory like install, I take pride in.
Ive noticed with RCMC on initial power up and start up of the loco with the smoke units on, they super heat. They wont super heat if you shut the loco down and restart it you have to cycle the power first.
That whistle is like a smoke stack, looks good! 
Question: What tool do you use to crimp the 1.5mm connectors? I have more trouble with those than the 2mm and 2.5mm ones.
gunrunnerjohn posted:That whistle is like a smoke stack, looks good!
Question: What tool do you use to crimp the 1.5mm connectors? I have more trouble with those than the 2mm and 2.5mm ones.
Engineers PA-09,
(Tip***) - I noticed when you crimp the 1.5 in the 1.4 area they are squeezed to flat and will not slide into the connector. So I found when crimping the 1.25 and 1.5 in the 1.0 area they are perfect. Its a pain in the butt at first you have to be extra delicate, because the 1.5 will kinda wedge its self into the 1.0 for obvious reasons, and you have to wiggle it out without bending the terminal.
I make my own 2 and 2.5 mm harnesses but save a bit of time and headache by getting the premade 1.5 mm connectors. Its easy enough to extract the pins from the housings to use in other housings with more or less pins. Saves at least half of the crimping hassle.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/10-Se...0:g:G3QAAOSw~rpZVjHA
I was also in the right place at the right time when S&W was selling off their Lionel Harnesses. The piles included all sizes including 1.5mm. Enough to fill a 3 lb coffee can was only $7.50.
Pete
I have a pile of 1.5mm Lionel connectors as well, mine were a gift from the late Marty Fitzhenry a couple years ago. I use them when I can, and it does save having to crimp them. The 2.0mm and 2.5mm connectors are easy and quick to make, so I don't worry about those.
Bruk posted:gunrunnerjohn posted:Question: What tool do you use to crimp the 1.5mm connectors?
Engineers PA-09,
(Tip***) - I noticed when you crimp the 1.5 in the 1.4 area they are squeezed to flat and will not slide into the connector. So I found when crimping the 1.25 and 1.5 in the 1.0 area they are perfect. Its a pain in the butt at first you have to be extra delicate, because the 1.5 will kinda wedge its self into the 1.0 for obvious reasons, and you have to wiggle it out without bending the terminal.
I have the IWIS crimpers with the 1.3 size crimp, I may try those.
Bruk
OUTSTANDING work on that whistle steam, I’m really enjoying this thread. Thanks for sharing
Alex
WOW! To quote Graham Chapman from Monty Python & The Holy Grail, "That rabbit is dynamite!" What a truly excellent rebuild rework this is. When this is finished, it is going to be over the moon crazy.
Dave NYC Hudson PRR K4 posted:WOW! To quote Graham Chapman from Monty Python & The Holy Grail, "That rabbit is dynamite!" What a truly excellent rebuild rework this is. When this is finished, it is going to be over the moon crazy.
Thanks!
This has been a headache of a project but exciting at the same time. I got to install the lights, rework and fine tune some things then start some testing to make sure its going to continue to function after I send it back to Brian.
I know what you mean Bruk. Some projects that we take on bring us tons of grief. My late Uncle Eddie would often say such things(with several swears in between) but all the effort would be 100 fold worth it. Sometimes you really get a challenge, but it is all golden after.
Bruk posted:Norton posted:Fine work Bruk. What are you doing about wiring harnesses, making your own or using Lionel's? To me, making my own is the most tedious, least interesting part.
I don't know how Lionel manages whistle steam but believe Dave said for the water overflow unit on the Niagara tender it gets a few seconds of higher voltage to heat up the resistor quickly then down to normal voltage.
Pete
The harness has to be made from scratch, all wires have to be measures, cut, hand crimped and assembled. Lionel doesn’t offer any parts for harnesses. Thats why the labor charge is higher than a PS3 upgrade. It takes me hours to assemble it. I have to do it with both engine and tender. It does suck but its part of it. You can buy pre-crimped connectors and solder them together but I hate the look of heat shrink everywhere. I like a clean wire from plug to plug. Factory like install, I take pride in.
Ive noticed with RCMC on initial power up and start up of the loco with the smoke units on, they super heat. They wont super heat if you shut the loco down and restart it you have to cycle the power first.
I had to reharness a Genset that burned up most of it's smoke unit harnesses. The original harnesses are not often listed with the engine. I found that hundreds of Lionel harnesses could be found in parts by seaching for "harness". I looked at many many of them with the pictures that Lionel provides and found a half dozen that I could remove the crimped wires from and reinsert them in the proper connector shells...and almost perfectly replaced the original harnesses with the correct colors as well. That seemed easier than crimping up a new set (although I have the tools) and it was more fun and interesting as well.
cjack posted:Bruk posted:Norton posted:Fine work Bruk. What are you doing about wiring harnesses, making your own or using Lionel's? To me, making my own is the most tedious, least interesting part.
I don't know how Lionel manages whistle steam but believe Dave said for the water overflow unit on the Niagara tender it gets a few seconds of higher voltage to heat up the resistor quickly then down to normal voltage.
Pete
The harness has to be made from scratch, all wires have to be measures, cut, hand crimped and assembled. Lionel doesn’t offer any parts for harnesses. Thats why the labor charge is higher than a PS3 upgrade. It takes me hours to assemble it. I have to do it with both engine and tender. It does suck but its part of it. You can buy pre-crimped connectors and solder them together but I hate the look of heat shrink everywhere. I like a clean wire from plug to plug. Factory like install, I take pride in.
Ive noticed with RCMC on initial power up and start up of the loco with the smoke units on, they super heat. They wont super heat if you shut the loco down and restart it you have to cycle the power first.
I had to reharness a Genset that burned up most of it's smoke unit harnesses. The original harnesses are not often listed with the engine. I found that hundreds of Lionel harnesses could be found in parts by seaching for "harness". I looked at many many of them with the pictures that Lionel provides and found a half dozen that I could remove the crimped wires from and reinsert them in the proper connector shells...and almost perfectly replaced the original harnesses with the correct colors as well. That seemed easier than crimping up a new set (although I have the tools) and it was more fun and interesting as well.
In the early days of me wanting to install these boards as a custom thing, I had looked into Lionel and done that same thing you described. I found that you may get lucky finding some harnesses, but when it comes to a very custom install kinda like in the Class A or the Brass engine I also did, you got to make the harness. You'll end up tearing down the entire harness down and just using the connectors in the end i found out. So yes when you have the tools its not as bad. Its easier in the end just more tedious to do. If it was plug and play more people would do this. 
Little update,
Ive been working on the lighting on the loco. Its fairly basic with the single headlight, cab light and work lights. My biggest struggle is getting the work lights over the drivers to look right. On the ESE they used a PCB board with 0603 SMD LEDs that slide in the housings for the work lights and shine down over the drivers. I wanted to reuse the original bulbs because it looked really good. But personally mixing incandescent and LEDs together on the same project look like poop. I thought about using the 3mm flange less LEDs that I used on the headlight and back up light, then slide them in place of the bulbs. This was easy but the actual light that shines down was poor and I did not like it.
So I decided to create what you see in the pictures. I made it from styrene. I used 0603 warm white LEDs. Hand solder the #32 magnet wire to the back side of them. Then glued it to the tips of the skeleton structure. Wired it all up separately from LH to RH. Since its styrene, its flexible and pops in position. Then I realized that I messed it up. I forgot that a smoke unit bracket goes right there...... now I got to modify it.....ugh. Trial and error.
I dunno if this is how ill end up doing the work lights, I wanted everything to be serviceable. Doing it this way does not fall into that very much since its a custom part with glued LEDs to it.
There's some consolation for me in knowing that an expert can run into the same issue I have, which is building components that belatedly have to be modified from their completed state because some other other - usually stock/original part - has to be allowed for. In my case it usually happens out of impatience to finish something but you can't really plan everything in advance when so many features are being added. It's an article of faith for me that scratch built parts can't replicate machine-made accuracy or that which comes from having a whole model built to a computer generated blueprint.
Anyway I understand why you did not want to mix incandescent and LED lighting. At least the latter are unlikely to need servicing for the life of the model.
Bruk, I faced the same issue with a Dreyfuss, and I ended up change the bulbs out to be compatible with my circuit and using the original fixtures. For other project where there is a place I can stick a small board, I make these.
Obviously, I cut them apart before installing them. I solder all the LED's on with them in a strip, then I cut them apart and glue them under the running boards. I wire them with #30 black wire-wrap wire, it works well and any holes I have to drill are really small.
If I may make a suggestion Burk...Run a piece of styrene from the center LED support to the rear LED support along the outside. Then you can remove the center section and then mount the smoke unit bracket.
gunrunnerjohn posted:Bruk, I faced the same issue with a Dreyfuss, and I ended up change the bulbs out to be compatible with my circuit and using the original fixtures. For other project where there is a place I can stick a small board, I make these.
This what I have available to me. They are (between the two pads) are as big as 3528 LEDs. Similar to yours. I thought about using the styrene structure with these for an easier change if the LED fails. Ill have trim it up of course.
Jayhawk500 posted:If I may make a suggestion Burk...Run a piece of styrene from the center LED support to the rear LED support along the outside. Then you can remove the center section and then mount the smoke unit bracket.
If I continue with this design. I will do this. I have already prepped the pieces for a mod. I’m just not excited about remaking those LEDs up. They can be a pain to solder up.
I went with one-sided on my ground lights for a good reason. I didn't want the wires to come through and short to the shell!
gunrunnerjohn posted:I went with one-sided on my ground lights for a good reason. I didn't want the wires to come through and short to the shell!
Of course! With these. If I end up attaching them straight to the shell, I drill out the through hole trace just enough on the back side with a small drill bit.
gunrunnerjohn posted:Bruk, I faced the same issue with a Dreyfuss, and I ended up change the bulbs out to be compatible with my circuit and using the original fixtures. For other project where there is a place I can stick a small board, I make these.
Obviously, I cut them apart before installing them. I solder all the LED's on with them in a strip, then I cut them apart and glue them under the running boards. I wire them with #30 black wire-wrap wire, it works well and any holes I have to drill are really small.
Gunrunnerjohn recently did a smoke, chuff and lighting upgrade on my new Lionel Dreyfuss. I didn’t upgrade to ERR (that’s another story). The work lights he installed look fantastic.
This upgrade to Legacy with whistle steam will be sweet
Mike
ezmike posted:Gunrunnerjohn recently did a smoke, chuff and lighting upgrade on my new Lionel Dreyfuss. I didn’t upgrade to ERR (that’s another story). The work lights he installed look fantastic.
Yep, that's the one I stayed with the incandescent lighting, I looked at putting the LED's in, but not any good places to mount them. Since the light fixtures were already there, I just rewired them all for the new bulbs.
Tender:
So I have had the tender done for a couple days now, I use a MTH trim pot for volume control. They are my go too where if an installation does not have one already. Anyways I thought I had a couple and I guess I didn’t. I had to run to Eastside Trains earlier this week and get a couple so finally finished that up.
Installation is pretty straight forward; striped it down, marked the best spot for the boards, drilled and taped the holes. I sealed the speaker risers and speakers to the frame. I trimmed and hooked up the power wires to the boards. I noticed after fitting the RS board in the holder that the IR connector was missing....to most this is a complaint to lionel. But I have junkers laying around and just swapped it out. No big deal. I then made up a new IR harness and installed it. I made connectors for the coupler, speakers,battery and connections between the the LTC board and RS board.
The back up light I had to make a holder for the LED. I used the original bracket with a small tube to hold it. I use the MTH 3mm LEDs that are supplied in the PS3 diesel kits. Which is a standard in PS3 locos, its a nice warm white color and simple to replace if needed.
Later on I got the trim pot installed. Then zipped tied some of the wire up and slapped the shell back on. I just got to finish the loco now.
Nice professional job. I hesitate to ask, but how many hours is the complete upgrade going take take? To say this is a time consuming and detailed operation wouldn't be overstating the case I suspect!
Amazing, just amazing. This will be one heck of a performing piece of art when finished.
gunrunnerjohn posted:Nice professional job. I hesitate to ask, but how many hours is the complete upgrade going take take? To say this is a time consuming and detailed operation wouldn't be overstating the case I suspect!
Welllll, the more I do. The faster it get. With the electronics its almost the same install every time. To be honest. I usually spend a lot of time through out my day(s) at my actual job (day dreaming), thinking about how to approach a project and doing parts research before I even place a part order. I take pictures of what I have to work with as well. I usually have about 4-5 hours (with distractions) at most after work to be able to work on projects. Some days no time such as Life. So it seems like a long time. 😁
(I had the tender done the same day I posted that teaser video.)
SO! The Class A I did at first took me 24-26 hours. Finding the best ways to do the job. Taking my time. I know I could do it faster but I want a good base method at first. When I did Brians Class A. It took me just about 12 hours from start to finish. And thats me with tools in my hands. I’m sure if I get a 3rd to work it will be less.
This project kinda caught me off guard. Wasnt even thinking of doing one of these. I mentioned to Brian that it might be to difficult to even add whistle steam. But I got it. I looked at a ESE we had at Eastside before I got his engine. Just to get good base idea of how Lionel did it. I knew it be very similar to idea with the Dreyfus.
If I did another one of these, I know what id need to do first and last, this would cut down the turn around time to 12 hours if not less.
12 hours (or a full working day and a bit more) is/would be amazingly efficient, at least by my inept standards.
That Rail-/Signal-sounds switch in your 7th photo looks totally marooned now!
Hancock52 posted:That Rail-/Signal-sounds switch in your 7th photo looks totally marooned now!
Agreed, no need for that anymore.
Final Assembly!
I was pretty much done with the loco a few days ago. I just had to add the ground/work lights. I came up with a cleaner method. Next time I’m going to see if I can’t 3d print those parts for the lights. They came out great in the end. A much cleaner install than before I think. You’ll notice that I made some supports to keep the wire away from the flywheel. I even soldered some small brass wire to hold it and even a zip tie.
I also made a little extra support for the smoke unit to the heat sink. For the encoder I had to move the capacitor down to the side to get it out of the way of the smoke funnel. I added some heat shrink just in case. You’ll also notice that I added a larger brass tube to help fill up that space between the shell and smoke funnel.
Its pretty cramped in there. But looks like a factory install to me! A video to follow soon.
Very nice!
Magnificent job Bruk, I think I'll send all my upgrades out to you!
Those turned out fantastic! nice job! Wish I could do this mod to my LTI Chessie Steam Special. But I dont think I have the room.
How big is the RCMC board Burk?
Chris
Jayhawk500 posted:How big is the RCMC board Burk?
Chris
Ill get back to you.
gunrunnerjohn posted:Magnificent job Bruk, I think I'll send all my upgrades out to you!
Thank you!
I’m always up for anyone interested in my services. But ill be honest, if the project is worth it or not.
I’m a email away.
Jayhawk500 posted:How big is the RCMC board Burk?
Looks like 1 1/4" wide, 3 3/4" long, and 1" tall at the highest point. That also leaves room for the connectors.
Bruk posted:Final Assembly!
. . . . Its pretty cramped in there. But looks like a factory install to me! A video to follow soon.
Do yourself justice (or I will); that looks better than the vast majority of factory installs I've looked at lately.
As for my own installs, well . . . I can still aspire to factory level!
Hancock52 posted:Bruk posted:Final Assembly!
. . . . Its pretty cramped in there. But looks like a factory install to me! A video to follow soon.
Do yourself justice (or I will); that looks better than the vast majority of factory installs I've looked at lately.
As for my own installs, well . . . I can still aspire to factory level!
I appreciate it!
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