Lionel out of warranty repair

What is your engine and what is your issue.   I am a Lionel Tech with more work than I want but if I knew your issue I may be able to direct you.    I would contact the Train Station in Mountain Lakes.    

Hi Marty.  Thanks for your response. I have a Lionel NYC E-7 (6-24579). It was in storage for the past 5 years. When I put it back on thr track all seemed well at first but then I realized that is not running smoothly but instead is moving in a sort of halting jerky motion where it speeds up a little and slows down a little in a regular pattern. It does this with or without Odyssey on and with or without smoke on. I tried turning the powered wheels by hand and the one on the front truck is harder to turn than the one in the rear. I applied a small amout of Lionel lubricant to the gears but it did not help. 

Running it conventionally or TMCC? Transformer and voltage?

Does it go feet speeding up and slowing down or constant jerky where a tire might be hung up? Better yet, a video?

You may want to check the grease on the wormgear that drives the wheels, if it has been sitting for 5 years the grease might have become somewhat dried out and hard.  I don't think that is the command control or the motor, I think that is lubrication and cleaning. 

If you do need help, the guys at the Train Station are pretty good, they are about 40 miles west of NYC or so. 

TMCC. Its a regular pattern every 2 seconds at slow speed. Worse on curves and more noticable at slower speeds. With all the sounds off there is sometimes a small squeak which seems coordinated with the slowing but its not always heard

I did apply grease to the visible gear on the wheel that seemed hard to turn but it didn't help. 

Reprogram the R2LC and put in the AUX-1 code for your engine.

I have used the Train Station for repairs and their tech, Mike, is excellent. That being said, they don't like taking repairs that were not bought from them. The first thing they will tell you is take back to where you bought it. I have seen them do it to people. But, if you fuss a little they will take it. I would suggest calling or emailing Mike Reagan at TW Design. He is doing out of warranty repairs and is very good. I know others will agree with me on this..

Thanks Marty..I will try that tonight.  Any idea what the proper code os? The list I saw has 8 for all diesels with smoke.  Sound right to you?

From the manual...

If your locomotives are unresponsive to your commands in the TrainMaster Command Control
environment, we recommend that you follow this procedure to reset your locomotive set.

1. Slide the Command reverse unit switch to the PGM position. See pages 7, 32, and 33 for the
locations of the Command reverse unit switches on each unit.
Work with only one locomotive at a time.
2. Plug in and connect your Command Base.
3. Place your locomotive on the track, then power up the track.
4. Press ENG and enter the locomotive’s ID#.
5. Press SET.
6. Press ENG and enter the locomotive’s ID# again.
7. Press AUX1.
8. Enter 78 for this particular locomotive.
9. Turn off track power and wait ten seconds.
10. Slide the Command reverse unit switch back to the RUN position.
Repeat these steps for each locomotive.
At this point, your locomotive set has been reset. Restore power to the track and operate the
locomotive as usual. Be sure to use the ID# entered in Step 4.

Thanks Marty.  When I get any of those engines in, I pull all the modular boards and put them into my board tester.      

I had this problem with my GP30 with tmcc, I greased it and let it run for a little while and slowly it stopped jerking.

I made a few videos but the problem can be a bit subtle on film and does wax and wane a bit.  I think the best way to see it is in the jerking of the passenger cars as it pulls into a station.....

Thanks everyone for your help. I tried the reset but it didn't resolve the problem. I will reach out to Mike and Dave. Thanks for the recommendations!

A number of people think the traction tires might be to blame. Im noticing the problem seems to be much worse on curves. Does that jibe with idea that the traction tires ate to blame? Here is another video....

A Lionel tech needs to see it on his bench.

One consideration to take is the radius of your curve. Event though Lionel says minimum 036, these are long locomotives and opening up the radius to 054 might make a difference. Another suggestion is how large of a loop of track are you using, as power can fade the longer the distance from a power source. I have a 5x9 layout and use two power 'drops' on the layout, as I noticed early on some of my locos would slow down and not run as smooth at the far end. Once I did the second power connection there were no issues.

Adding on to DaveP, I have an Atlas C-630 that could operate on 0-36, but could only run one direction throughout the loop without jerking on curves. I purchased 045 and 054 and it ran perfectly in any direction and any speed without this problem.

May be closing in on the problem. One of the traction tires on the front truck is chewed up from rubbing against the dummy brake shoe. But....for some reason the side frame screws on this model (6-24579) are mounted from the TOP instead of underneath! And sure enough, that makes the rear screw inaccessible not matter how far you rotate the truck. I could probably get the old tire off without removing the side frame with a dental pick or two but there is no clearance so I don’t see how I will ever get a new tire on. Any suggestions? Thanks again to Dave at The Train Station, who has been super helpful, and Mike Reagan too and everyone here on the Forum.

JamesRx posted:

I did apply grease to the visible gear on the wheel that seemed hard to turn but it didn't help. 

You also want to grease the worm gear and main gear in the gearbox of each truck.

Turn the loco over and using a small phillips screwdriver remote the pickup rollers, and the 4 screws that hold the gearbox cover on.

This will expose the gears, fill the gearbox with  grease and reassemble. These locos came from the factory with little to no grease in the gearboxes. Even if this doesn't resolve the issue, it will still need it.

Secondly, I agree with Dave P regarding the radius of the curves. Regardless of Lionels recommendation.  

I used to own a pair of these. O-36 is wayyyy too tight for these 17" long 6 axle diesels, not to mention all the wheels are flanged on these as well.

 I ran mine on 0-60 and they still looked out of place. IMO nothing bigger than 4 axle diesels on o-36.

If none of these suggestions help, including the tires, I'd ship it to Mike Reagan and get it fixed right. His turnaround time cannot be beat and its just as good as sending it to Lionel......just pretend its 2014.

I have used Trainland in Lynbrook  (Nassau County) - 516 599-7080 is their number and they never questioned where I purchased items. They seem to have a set price for engines repairs.

JohnF

Any shop doing a for $ paid repair and questioning where you purchased said item...probably does not want or need your business. (Unless of course they lifetime discount repairs on purchases made from them.)...(yea)

I noticed it as the train was slowing down, entering the station.

It definitely wouldn't hurt to make sure the gearboxes are properly greased.  However these are Odyssey, not Legacy.  I couldn't find the parts diagram on Lionel's website, but I'm guessing they lack the back-driveable gears which were later adopted on many Legacy diesels.  It could be that below a certain speed, one motor no longer wants to turn, and the other motor is straining to overcome the drag of the locked gears.  The result is an "inchworm" or surging effect seen in the video.  What happens if you run only the powered loco with no cars?  My hypothesis is that it would be more noticeable.

There is a feedback loop in which Odyssey determines the loco speed, and then commands the motor with a given voltage to maintain the desired speed based on load.  It looks like the whole system isn't reacting fast enough.  Specifically, it lets the train slow down too far, and then overcompensates causing a surge.  My $.02.

I have been a Lionel fan all my life but if they won't repair what they sell I don't need to buy anymore.

Turns out the E7 has liondrive Twist Off trucks so I was able to get to the bad tire and change it. It made a big difference. He is the new video. Thanks again to everyone who was kind enough to help me out here!

Found another traction tire on the rear truck that was also contacting dummy brake.....

Running even better now with both tires replaced...