Lionel Plug & Play Acessories - no Pigtail Provided anymore

Buy the piece of track and take it apart. Its probably just a socket or circuit board with contacts touching the rails. Take out what you need and solder wires to the contacts. 

Alternatively, leave the track whole and screw it to the bottom of the table. Just wire it up. 

Im sure the connector is something commercially available. Maybe if you thumb through mouser or digikey you can figure out what it is and just buy it. 

Another Lionel SNAFU.

Who makes these kind of decisions? 

I guess that the company decided that they could save a few pennies by leaving the piece out, and that sales would not be impacted. 

Nothing new in the world of trains or anywhere else. In the postwar era, one might point to Lionel deciding to leave the steps off the corners of their freight cars as one of the first cost cutting measures. I'd guess that people could come up with many others.

Buy a 6' extension cable and cut one end off.

http://www.lionelstore.com/6-P...tension-3-pin-682043

I just did a quick search, and many of the usual suspects have the pigtail in stock.

EscapeRocks posted:

I just did a quick search, and many of the usual suspects have the pigtail in stock.

Good point. By "usual suspects", I assume you mean the parts horders. It seems like Lionel can't keep parts available to customers. There are probably 10,000 of these things available from a certain Buford, GA retailer. But none available anywhere else. More and more parts appear on Lionel's site with the phrase "Contact Lionel", to screen out speculators without a legitimate, immediate need for a part. Used to be just PCB's. Now it's everything.

GregR posted:

EscapeRocks posted:

I just did a quick search, and many of the usual suspects have the pigtail in stock.

Good point. By "usual suspects", I assume you mean the parts horders. It seems like Lionel can't keep parts available to customers. There are probably 10,000 of these things available from a certain Buford, GA retailer. But none available anywhere else. More and more parts appear on Lionel's site with the phrase "Contact Lionel", to screen out speculators without a legitimate, immediate need for a part. Used to be just PCB's. Now it's everything.

Yeah I saw that place.  Some others, though, have them in stock with as much as a buck ro two less than Lionel's MSRP.

I bought the double floodlight towers that were plug and play.  I used the pigtail connector out of one of those towers for the sawmill.  I had wired directly to the base of the floodlight tower and attached it to my accessory bus wire. 

Neal Jeter

By "usual suspects", I assume you mean the parts horders. It seems like Lionel can't keep parts available to customers

So, when your favorite Lionel parts dealer orders parts from Lionel for his inventory, is he hoarding?

I am getting tired of hearing things like this. I am also getting tired of when I hear you need to "alter" a part to use it. We are paying good money why should we have to buy additional parts or alter a product. I don't like plug and play and their adapters. Also, now you have to drill a big hole in your tabel to fit the adapter thru it.  I run lights independent from running trains. I don't want to run them every time the train is going around the track.  I bought the single floodlight tower and it came with the pigtail connector and there are 3 wires now: black,red and white and I don't know why?  Now I have to drill a big hole in my tabel to feed the the wires through. I know someone will say just to re-wire the thing but that goes to my point.

Ever try putting together a Lionel trestle set with the lousy pins they give you.  Lost money on this along with other Lionel items.

Dkokoszka posted:

I am getting tired of hearing things like this. I am also getting tired of when I hear you need to "alter" a part to use it. We are paying good money why should we have to buy additional parts or alter a product. I don't like plug and play and their adapters. Also, now you have to drill a big hole in your tabel to fit the adapter thru it.  I run lights independent from running trains. I don't want to run them every time the train is going around the track.  I bought the single floodlight tower and it came with the pigtail connector and there are 3 wires now: black,red and white and I don't know why?  Now I have to drill a big hole in my tabel to feed the the wires through. I know someone will say just to re-wire the thing but that goes to my point...................

The exact points you discuss were brought to Lionel's attention when they made the announcement about plug and play (I think it came up at the Legacy User Group breakfast at York in either April or October of 2015). 

Mike R basically said exactly what you surmise, clip the wire, etc.  The way this design philosophy alienates existing customers  (some collectors) who do have minor to moderate technical abilities is not a factor apparently.  The collector mentality of wanting to keep the unit pure and unmodified (even if lightly used) was not a factor in their decision.

I specifically asked whether they considered keeping the old designs (fahnstock clips, etc) and just shipping items with a pre-installed pigtail for plug and play use that could be removed by more advanced hobbyists who just want to hook up wires the old fashioned way.  While it may have been considered, that path was not considered viable or cost effective apparently.

They are bending over backwards to try to attract perceived new customers who do not know how to strip wires and are apparently willing to spend lots of extra money for each accessory by purchasing expensive special track sections, etc.  This is pure "try to grab people for the top of the funnel" stuff, if you've followed that concept over the years.

Only time will tell if this actually does cause the massive influx of new customers Lionel claims this is meant to attract.  We will never really know anyway since they are not about to share that information.  Our only barometer to see how this goes will be future catalog offerings over the next few years.  If it's all plug and play all the time, then maybe it's working.  If we see it disappear, the loss of more technically competent customers may actually have proven to have an effect.

As to the 3 wires thing, I believe that is just to keep the pigtail somewhat common so it can also be used for accessories with activation, like a switch tower, control tower, etc.

-Dave

SandJam posted:

So I purchased a brand new Lionel Sawmill with Sounds yesterday.  We hooked up the display model at the store and the sounds are pretty cool.  Sounds of the mill starting up and then as logs go in and boards come out it starts a sawing sound (like wood going through a saw).  So I get it home unpack it and can't find the pigtail that has always come with every plug and play accessory.  The pigtail allows me to hook it up conventionally to my transformer without cutting off the plug and play connector.  So I read the instructions for what's included and find out the pigtail is now a separate item you must buy at $10.00.   They want you to use the Fastrack section instead.  So first of all, I'm not tearing out my ballasted track to install a Plug and play track.  That's ridiculous.  To top it off and make it more insulting to the customer,  the pigtails are not even available!  So I have a 200.00 sawmill sitting here I can't use unless I want to cutoff the connector.  So if I want to sell it in future to someone who is using the Plug and play track section I now have cutoff the connector.

Who makes these kind of decisions? 

Sean;

I purchased two light towers which I hard wired to my transformer because I didn't want to purchase or add one of the ugly plug & play tracks (and I haven't gotten around to ballast yet!!!). I have two of the pig tails somewhere in the basement - I'd be more than happy to send you one. If you're interested, send me an addressed 

Apples55 posted:

Sean;

I purchased two light towers which I hard wired to my transformer because I didn't want to purchase or add one of the ugly plug & play tracks (and I haven't gotten around to ballast yet!!!). I have two of the pig tails somewhere in the basement - I'd be more than happy to send you one. If you're interested, send me an addressed 

That brings up a good point.  Based on an earlier thread discussion and some comments here, these light towers seem to be the minority in terms of actually being able to be hooked up old-shool with bare wires.

If I recall, some of the other units I've got (admittedly a very small sample of all of the different units out there) don't have an obvious good option. 

The control tower has the wires captured on a ring lug under a press fit (or possibly also glued) plastic "washer" that holds the long metal rods to the underside of the base.  I didn't look too closely at the assembly method, but I think it's different than older control towers where pressure from the fahnstock clip holds the metal rods (sandwiching the tower, structure, and base).  (meaning I don't know if there are maybe new screws holding everything together up in the tower, etc).

The burning switch tower has the plug and play wire running inside the building through a small hole in the base, I believe.  The only thing you can do there is clip the wire unless you totally remove the tower from the base and try to run new wires to the inside connection points (major disassembly).  There is no viable method to hook up wires to the outside without clipping what is provided.  I think the smoke fluid loader was similar, but I no longer have one of those to double check.

The track gang wire runs directly into the base, but I need to admit I don't know the hook up arrangement for the pre plug and play version, since I never had one.

-Dave

Apples55 posted:

SandJam posted:

So I purchased a brand new Lionel Sawmill with Sounds yesterday.  We hooked up the display model at the store and the sounds are pretty cool.  Sounds of the mill starting up and then as logs go in and boards come out it starts a sawing sound (like wood going through a saw).  So I get it home unpack it and can't find the pigtail that has always come with every plug and play accessory.  The pigtail allows me to hook it up conventionally to my transformer without cutting off the plug and play connector.  So I read the instructions for what's included and find out the pigtail is now a separate item you must buy at $10.00.   They want you to use the Fastrack section instead.  So first of all, I'm not tearing out my ballasted track to install a Plug and play track.  That's ridiculous.  To top it off and make it more insulting to the customer,  the pigtails are not even available!  So I have a 200.00 sawmill sitting here I can't use unless I want to cutoff the connector.  So if I want to sell it in future to someone who is using the Plug and play track section I now have cutoff the connector.

Who makes these kind of decisions? 

Sean;

I purchased two light towers which I hard wired to my transformer because I didn't want to purchase or add one of the ugly plug & play tracks (and I haven't gotten around to ballast yet!!!). I have two of the pig tails somewhere in the basement - I'd be more than happy to send you one. If you're interested, send me an addressed 

Thank you so much for your kind offer.  I actually just got back from Nicholas Smith and purchased the $12.00 6' Extension cable and I will cut off the end to make a pigtail.  The actual pigtails they list in the manual as a separate accessory are not even available. 

Big expensive accessories like this I don't like to modify in case I ever want to sell them.  From the beginning of the Plug & Play line they have provided the pigtails.  I know, I have a bunch of accessories that came with them. 

It's not even the money as it is the hassle.  Its a good hour drive to my LHS.  No where on the box does it mention, pigtail sold separately.  So another trip of wasted gas to get the extension cable and make my own.

I also had to exchange the ESE Station sounds diner car which was DOA.  I tested the new one at the store to verify it worked.

Just frustration that's all.  I think I'll go have a drink and forget about Lionel, haha

I need a pigtail so who are the "usual suspects?" What is the part number too?

Lionel 82038.  The usual suspects would be any of the dealers who support the forum.

Neal Jeter

Now, if you wire this stuff to the FasTrack, will there be enough power for that MINOR detail:  THE TRAIN!

I'm sure glad I'm not the only one who thinks this system is totally ridiculous. I E-Mailed Mike Reagan about it & he said to just cut it off. I may take the sawmill apart to see it the pigtail wires are just screwed on like the floodlight towers are & just run the wires from there. If they are soldered, I just cut the pigtail off & strip the jacket to keep the hole small. An accessory like this more than likely will not be used by the ordinary public & will be used by the more advanced operator & will not need that stupid pigtail. It's just another additional expense that adds to the cost.

On another point, it sure would have been nice if they would have taken the slot out of the roof to make it a little more interesting when showing the layout to other than another operator. The roof comes off anyhow & the logs could be re-loaded that way. Anyone know of someone who might make a sign to fit inside that slot? I would love to have one made out of balsa wood with a sign on it.    

Actually, this goes against all things I have heard about layout wiring:  Hot train and Assoc. buses should be from separate power supplies!

Dominic Mazoch posted:

Now, if you wire this stuff to the FasTrack, will there be enough power for that MINOR detail:  THE TRAIN!

What in heavens name do trains have to do with anything??? Oh... wait a minute... Never mind   

SandJam posted:

Big expensive accessories like this I don't like to modify in case I ever want to sell them.  From the beginning of the Plug & Play line they have provided the pigtails.  I know, I have a bunch of accessories that came with them. 

It's not even the money as it is the hassle.  Its a good hour drive to my LHS.  No where on the box does it mention, pigtail sold separately.  So another trip of wasted gas to get the extension cable and make my own.

I also had to exchange the ESE Station sounds diner car which was DOA.  I tested the new one at the store to verify it worked.

Just frustration that's all.  I think I'll go have a drink and forget about Lionel, haha

Sean;

Glad you were able to resolve your problem. To be on the safe side, I think I will avoid plug and play for the foreseeable future.

As a retiree, frustration is high on my list of things I don't need anymore, and as an Irishman, I have found that a good stiff drink usually solves more problems than it creates (excluding while driving, of course)!!!

Only time will tell if this actually does cause the massive influx of new customers Lionel claims this is meant to attract.

As long as their customers are just complaining, and still buying, then Lionel cannot loose. Perhaps they are even profiting a little more. The cost to make those pigtails cannot be anywhere near what they are charging for them.

Will plug and play spur sales?
At one time I would have said no, because I thought the type of person who would be into trains would be a person interested in mechanical (and electrical things) and would be willing / able to learn to do the simple wiring required for a train setup.
These days, I am not so certain.

Apples55 posted:

SandJam posted:

So I purchased a brand new Lionel Sawmill with Sounds yesterday.  We hooked up the display model at the store and the sounds are pretty cool.  Sounds of the mill starting up and then as logs go in and boards come out it starts a sawing sound (like wood going through a saw).  So I get it home unpack it and can't find the pigtail that has always come with every plug and play accessory.  The pigtail allows me to hook it up conventionally to my transformer without cutting off the plug and play connector.  So I read the instructions for what's included and find out the pigtail is now a separate item you must buy at $10.00.   They want you to use the Fastrack section instead.  So first of all, I'm not tearing out my ballasted track to install a Plug and play track.  That's ridiculous.  To top it off and make it more insulting to the customer,  the pigtails are not even available!  So I have a 200.00 sawmill sitting here I can't use unless I want to cutoff the connector.  So if I want to sell it in future to someone who is using the Plug and play track section I now have cutoff the connector.

Who makes these kind of decisions? 

Sean;

I purchased two light towers which I hard wired to my transformer because I didn't want to purchase or add one of the ugly plug & play tracks (and I haven't gotten around to ballast yet!!!). I have two of the pig tails somewhere in the basement - I'd be more than happy to send you one. If you're interested, send me an addressed 

Paul,

  I could use one of your pigtails if the offer still stands. I haven't found a dealer yet that has them in stock and my sawmill is to be delivered today.

BradFish1 posted:

Paul,

  I could use one of your pigtails if the offer still stands. I haven't found a dealer yet that has them in stock and my sawmill is to be delivered today.

Brad;

Would be my pleasure. If you can get me an address fairly quickly, I might be able to get it in today's mail (the Post Office near me closes at 12:00 today)

Paul,

  I just sent you an email.

          Thanks,

          Brad

I may be the odd man out in the world of o gauge, but this one doesn't bother me.

I have a few new Plug and play.  Some, I use the plug and play feature with the associated track piece.  The ones I want to go to another power source I just cut off the plug several inches from the end.  No big deal.

Just as with any accessory I've bought over the last 30 years I am always modifying the hooking up to power.    Maybe it's because I have never, ever bought a train item to use on my layout (trains or accessories) with a thought to resale value down the road. (the odd man out thing I mentioned above ).

The plug and play is especially neat for those items you wish to have activated by a passing train.

Anyway, as I mentioned in my first reply, the pig tails are available at many retailers.

Me, I'll just take the 2 minutes to cut, strip, and connect those items I wish to not use with the track piece.

BradFish1 posted:

Paul,

  I just sent you an email.

          Thanks,

          Brad

 

Brad;

If they still had airmail postage, there would be a great "when pigs fly" joke in here somewhere!!!

Turns out the Postal Contract Unit (which is separate and distinct from our Mail Room or the Hawley Post Office) is open later, so, to harken back to my early career in Insurance Claims, the tail is in the mail. Wow... I'm a poet and didn't know it

You've got to post a pic of the connector on the sawmill. The two plug and play light towers were pretty simple to jury rig - remove the two nuts holding the p&p wires and replace them with the traditional red and black wires - done.

Enjoy your new toy.

The grasshopper oil pumps came with the pigtail, btw.

I'm curious if anyone knows if the jack in use is a type that can be purchased through a electronic parts supplier or if ir is something special cooked up by Lionel.  The jack looks like a 3 pin Registered Jack, perhaps a RJ15, but I'm unsure just by looking at pictures.  and RJ15's are rather uncommon.  I'm wondering if the pins would line up on a standard 4 or 6 pin registered jack (phone jacks)

Myself I would just cut the end off, but I understand that keeping things original is important to some folks.  I think, though, that for the folks that keeping it original is important, to preserve some sort of perceived value, $13 as an add on part for the pigtail doesn't seem like a bad price, especially if it saves a couple bucks on the sale price of each accessory for everyone else that is happy to cut the end off, or use the plug in track sections.   Further, I would think it would be advantageous to those that keep it original for the majority of the accessories to be 'not original' if they are wanting some sort of premium on resale for having an original one. 

Bottom line for me is, if it costs less to not supply a pig tail, I don't need one, cut the wire and you're good to go.  If not cutting the wire is important to you, drop the cash on an additional part, but don't make me pay for something I don't need.  

JGL

SandJam posted:

Apples55 posted:

SandJam posted:

So I purchased a brand new Lionel Sawmill with Sounds yesterday.  We hooked up the display model at the store and the sounds are pretty cool.  Sounds of the mill starting up and then as logs go in and boards come out it starts a sawing sound (like wood going through a saw).  So I get it home unpack it and can't find the pigtail that has always come with every plug and play accessory.  The pigtail allows me to hook it up conventionally to my transformer without cutting off the plug and play connector.  So I read the instructions for what's included and find out the pigtail is now a separate item you must buy at $10.00.   They want you to use the Fastrack section instead.  So first of all, I'm not tearing out my ballasted track to install a Plug and play track.  That's ridiculous.  To top it off and make it more insulting to the customer,  the pigtails are not even available!  So I have a 200.00 sawmill sitting here I can't use unless I want to cutoff the connector.  So if I want to sell it in future to someone who is using the Plug and play track section I now have cutoff the connector.

Who makes these kind of decisions? 

Sean;

I purchased two light towers which I hard wired to my transformer because I didn't want to purchase or add one of the ugly plug & play tracks (and I haven't gotten around to ballast yet!!!). I have two of the pig tails somewhere in the basement - I'd be more than happy to send you one. If you're interested, send me an addressed 

Thank you so much for your kind offer.  I actually just got back from Nicholas Smith and purchased the $12.00 6' Extension cable and I will cut off the end to make a pigtail.  The actual pigtails they list in the manual as a separate accessory are not even available. 

Big expensive accessories like this I don't like to modify in case I ever want to sell them.  From the beginning of the Plug & Play line they have provided the pigtails.  I know, I have a bunch of accessories that came with them. 

It's not even the money as it is the hassle.  Its a good hour drive to my LHS.  No where on the box does it mention, pigtail sold separately.  So another trip of wasted gas to get the extension cable and make my own.

I also had to exchange the ESE Station sounds diner car which was DOA.  I tested the new one at the store to verify it worked.

Just frustration that's all.  I think I'll go have a drink and forget about Lionel, haha

I see your point that Lionel should offer the power connector option,but really,just cut the plug it came with and be done with it.No one is going to ever give you a fraction of what you paid for the accessory anyways whether the factory wiring plug is cut or not.

Wow! I've got nothin'.

I see your point that Lionel should offer the power connector option,but really,just cut the plug it came with and be done with it.No one is going to ever give you a fraction of what you paid for the accessory anyways whether the factory wiring plug is cut or not.

When my older son and I built a permanent layout using Kato "N" gauge track, I made the mistake of cutting the connectors from the ends of the remote switch wires.  I didn't think about the future. Time passed and the layout was disassembled. Now I have a bunch of switches without the proper connectors to use the Kato switch controllers. They will have to be fixed before they can be used on a temporary layout again.  I've purchased extension cords with the idea of cutting off one end and replacing the wires on each switch. It's feasible, but the switch covers aren't so easy to remove. So far, I think I've only repaired one or two.

Had I to do it over, I would not cut off the connectors.

This issue and others we operators complain about are issues that occur because the people in charge are not operators but business men and women looking at the bottom line 

Might be looking at the bottom line, but it is still more expensive to make that pigtail than just give you two pieces of wire & two clips.

did anyone ever discover a commercially available female plug that fits the Lionel accessories so we can inexpensively make our own?    No cables r provided any longer and hate to cut the accessory cable.  Thx.

Lionel does catalog a 682039 3' male and a 682038 3' female pigtail.   Whether you can obtain them maybe another story.