Lionel Postwar Smoke Unit Converting Back To Pellets

Hi Michael,

I recently upgraded a Lionel Post War 2025 Steam Engine to liquid smoke fluid rather than trying to restore the original smoke pellet unit.  IMHO, try to convince your friend to stay with the Smoke Fluid instead of the Pellets simply because the Fluid is less expensive and it is easier to find.  Also, there are many fragrances to choose from with the liquid.  Not so much with the pellets.  It also seems to me that the Fluid produces more and better smoke than the pellets.  Whatever your friend chooses, stay with the metal cover just to be on the safe side.  Just my 2 cents, YMMV.

Chief Bob (Retired) 

I'd go with a metal cover.

As far as fluid versus pellets go: I prefer the odor of the pellets. And would rather have the dust from pellets, as opposed to oil vapors from liquid smoke in the air of my home.

To each their own.

He told me to put whatever I have in it, and since I have the pellet heating elements on hand, that's what's going in. You can use liquid smoke in them anyway. I'll put a metal cap on it though. Thanks guys.

Not to hijack the thread but I am also replacing the old burned out smoke element in a 2025.  Since I have one of the newer heating resistors, is there any  special trick to putting it in to replace the old pellet element.  Puffrbelly, sounds like you just did this. 

The conversion kits came with a fiberglass sleeve to go over the heater element, a plastic cap, and some insulating tubing.

They sell kits with a plastic cap. There are two small holes in it (in addition to the regular smoke hole) that the wire for the element comes in and out of.

Thanks for the help, I think  you guys cleared me up... mostly.  I have one of those kits from S and W and I did not realize the fiberglass went over the resistor.  Is there any science on where the resistor should be located relative to the reservoir and the packing there?  Per the Lionel videos on more modern units, seems like it should be slightly above the new packing piece in the reservoir.

I think I just solved my question by looking underneath the plastic cap.  the resistor fits into the two small brackets on it?

Guys there is no reason to convert to liquid smoke unit. The old pellet unit works fine and will not burn out if run dry like liquid units do. Get a "pacman" wadding piece and install it under the heater element. It will smoke for a good bit without refilling.

Rob

quote:

I think I just solved my question by looking underneath the plastic cap.  the resistor fits into the two small brackets on it?

The plastic caps that I have seen do not have any sort of brackets. And I have seen a fair number of melted plastic caps. IMHO, it is not desirable to have the resistor in direct contact with the cap. I still have some unused conversion kits that came with instructions. I will take a look at one in a little bit.

The smoke unit conversion kits that I have came from Charlie's Trains, and date back to 1993. They came with instructions, a black cap thet DOES have brackets molded into the inside, heater, fiberglass sleeve, two pieces of heat shrink tubing (large and small), a new liner, and a new smokestack gasket. Retail was $5.00.

The instructions make reference to an article in Classic Toy Trains, August 1991, pages 87-89.

The instructions state:

"taking care that the heater element does not touch or block the air spout inside the smoke chamber."

I don't think the instructions are appreciably different than what Lionel has on their site. I can try to scan the instructions and post them here if you wish.

C.W.  Thanks for that Lionel instructions link.  I saw the posts on the melted plastic caps and wondered too.  My kit sounds like the one you bought but it had no instructions with it.  If not too much of a pain, I would like to see your other instructions too.   Might help others also. thanks again.  I will also be careful on the air spout.

Here are scans of the instructions that came with the kits that I have.

I took a look at a couple of NOS modern era Lionel smoke units. I don't want to take them apart because I would have to unsolder the ground lead. From what I can see, the resistor is pressed down against the smoke unit liner, as far as possible from the plastic cap.
And that is how I installed the last replacement, which was in an 8206.

I think the next time I have to renew that style smoke unit, I am going to do the opposite of what is usually discussed, and put in pellet type parts, even if the engine originally came setup to use liquid smoke.

These instructions have Dr. Tinker's name on them. I guess I purchased at least one kit from him too.

I'll second this, my postwar trains, especial my 736, smoke like chimneys with the original units and JT's Mega-Smoke in them

Michael R, with smoke pellet unit the element has a ground sleeve that goes thru the metal

cap and then bent over it as it is a ground just some added info as you know the one wire coming out of element goes to e-unit lug which has other wires soldered such as head light wiret etc.

 Have converted many to liquid for saving some money and left some original.

Martin

Thanks again for all the great input.  I completed my 2025 project today.  When I finally dug out all the old smoke pellet residue and cleaned things up, amazingly enough, the old heater still worked.  To apply the KISS principle, I replaced the gaskets and batting and put it back together.  It does smoke a ton now with the fluid. 

I just did the opposite the other day.

I put a NOS PW pellet element in a tmcc Berk jr.

Gotta love finding 50yr old extra parts from Gramps in the basement.

The fiberglass resistor sleeve gets removed by many folks.

I've read it helps keep the resistor from burning up as soon, as well as giving a smoke increase. I think its air flow is less restrictive and wicking happens faster that way. Both would keep the resistor surface a little cooler, so "I'll buy it".

  But why is it there?

  I think its there to keep the less dense packing fluff from burning to a hard char easier by direct contact with the resistor. Once charred, the wicking slows dramatically, and that would make it run hotter than the original with a sleeve and un-burnt packing.

 So hot rod it without one for performance, but leave it on for reliability would be my guess.

  The first time I saw a kit with the plastic cap I laughed because it hurt too much to cry. Id rather use tin foil .

 There are plastics that can handle that kind of heat, but I don't think it was used for making those caps.

Mixing pellets and fluid works, but from what I've seen, the pellet residue changes to a gooey gunk once fluid is added to it & that seems as if it would slow the wicking. I didn't think to heat it, to see if it would liquefy more though

Glad she's cookin' for you again

 "Smoke up Johnny".

(The Breakfast Club was on recently)

quote:

When I finally dug out all the old smoke pellet residue

No need to dig out the residue.

Hold the smoke unit with a pair of pliers (or something similar), and heat up the smoke pot with a hot hairdryer, or a heat gun (low setting).

The pellet residue will liquefy, and the liner will come right to with minimal effort.

This is a good way to get a working element out intact too. If you don't soften the pellet material, often the heater element will break when you try to remove it.

quote:

I put a NOS PW pellet element in a tmcc Berk jr.

Gotta love finding 50yr old extra parts from Gramps in the basement.

I jumped on an opportunity to purchase some NOS genuine Lionel Postwar smoke elements a couple of years ago. I wouldn't sell or trade them at any price.