Lionel PRR F3's - Are they 'High-Water' units?

Sam, I think it were the later F7s that had the high water look. I have the SF F3s from 2005 and they look good. Prime mover sounds are OK but the horn is pretty wimpy. Maybe the PRR sounds are different.

 

Pete

 

Sam, 

 

if from 2005 it should have RS 5 and close coupleling. 

The SF ARE FROM 2004 and have RS4.

Sam,

I have this set; some thing to note when your purchasing a set.

1) These have all axles powered on the powered unit. The idler gear tolearances are not the best and the gears tend to bind. The only fix is to replace the power trucks.

I was lucky and able to remove the bind by greasing and moving the truck back and forth. The sister UP versions have the same issue.

2) The SOUNDS ARE SO AMAZING! Wish all of Lionel products sounded like this.

3) The pilots are black and the green is some odd type green that I could not match. Luckily there were some units with black pilots

4) The dummy A smokes and the B just has a reversing lamp that toggles off/on

5) To fill up with smoke you will need the needle applicator, and even then air bubbles seem to get trapped in the small stacks

6) They pull great, 30 scale double door box cars up a 3 percent grade no problem

7) This is one set that you want to buy already run. New in the box with the gear issues will cause you some repair frustration

8) High water bodies- yes, you can lower them by removing the ladders off of the trucks and I think reorienting the fasteners as shown on the "lower your F3 thread". I have not tried it because of the dark color you really don't notice the gap too bad.

9)These have the cab lights dimmed so they are not as bright as the previous NYC F3's.

10) I apologize on not posting a video. Mine are on the shelf and the layout is under benchwork construction.

11) They are RS4, with the garbled crew talk.

12) I lucked out. I purchased these from the Lionel visitor/repair center for a song.

never new they would go through the roof in price. A good price was around 500.00 but on the bay they are asking considerably more.

 

Good luck on the hunt.

 

I have train 19 From 2005 vol 2. These still have RS4 as does the PRR set Sam is referring to. You must be thinking of train 18. 

 

Pete

Forgot to mention as well; this set has a wide gap when coupled together (seems like you could drive a semi through them). There is a neat trick to replace one of the non-operating coupler(s) with a dummy coupler to tighten the gap.

 

Hey guys - thanks for jumping in here. I have the Santa Fe set No 18 which does have a pretty whimpy horn if I remember correctly! I had purchased a SF F7 Breakdown B unit and replaced the shell with an F3 but it sits noticeable higher than the ABBA's.

 

I have a really nice K-Line PRR F3B that I'd like to put with something with and would rather buy Lionel F3's than the older K-Line units.

Sam,

The good news is that if they are the same truck mounts as my NYC F3s, then lowering them is a piece of cake. 15 minutes a unit if you do it watching TV.

Stump pullers and great sounds. You're going to want to swap the freight pilots out with a set of Lionel passenger pilots if they come with them.

Have at it!

K-Line did an F7 AA in 2005. The detail on these is pretty good. Lionel's is slightly better IMO but the K-Lines close couple while Lionels have a big gap as J points out. Lionel has Odyssey but you could add an ERR cruise M to the K-Lines and get even better performance. K-Line AAs come with both units powered, 4 motors. I don't think you could go wrong with either set.

 

Pete

Sam those are NOT the "high water" engines as referred to by the F7s. They are the same as the Santa Fe #19 and come with the same Manual from 8/04 per the product locator on the Lionel Website. So they look good out of the box... compared to the F7s, BUT you can make them look even better.

Show off.

I think my LHS has that set if you're looking for new.  I'm pretty sure I've seen it on display when I walk through.  Can't say I know what he's asking for it. But you could ask Jerry yourself.
309-828-1442.

Or if you like I can swing by and snap some pictures for you if you wish.

 

Thanks WITZ.  I may give him a call when I decide what to do...

Sam, I don't think the gear issue affected all the F3s from that catalog. My powered A and B plus a B from the previous year all run fine. Mine have a few hours on the club layout pulling 9 18" aluminum cars without a hitch.

 

Pete

Sam,

 

i have a ABA set of the K-Line PRR F7s. Great pullers and sounds look good after installing the close couplers. The best thing about the ABA set is the 4 motors and the B unit having smoke. That out does both Lionel and MTH F unit ABA sets. The most anoying thing is the tether connectors which are just about impossible to connect.

 

JohnB

Didn't Lionel redesign the F7 model truck? A different truck design than those F3's do?

The Legacy F7s got the quick disconnect Liondrive trucks. The F3s are anything but quick but look a lot better.

 

Pete

I have the F3's and the F7's. I can't stand to look at the F7's because they sit so high, and they are not easily lowered like the F3's because of that new Liondrive truck design. I don't understand the big deal of twisting the trucks off anyway. Who takes them off all the time? and why? 

 

Once the 3rd Rail F7's arrive, I'll probably dump my Lionel F7's on EBay or something. The F3's are keepers now though  

 

You can lower the F3's in about 10 minutes, and retain the 3R coupler while eliminating the pilot gap in case you're wondering.

Yes the TMCC  F7 cab no. 332/333 released in 05 I think?,  has only one axle powered per truck assembly.

It has a rough time pulling the Lionel (7) 18 in  the Chief car set released in 04 up a 2.5 percent grade.  So I purchased an optional powered B unit and all is good.

C.Sam,

Talked to Jerry today. He's already sold them. Good luck.

 

HI John and thanks for your post. Are you referring to the K-Line F3's pictured here and in my post above? I don't want F7s as I already have an F3B. Am curious about them and would like to know more if you can elaborate on them a bit. Any photos? 

 

From what I see, the F3s are supposed to have smoke and cruise. Like you, I really don't like tethers and would prefer the stand alone features of Lionel's TMCC. You point out that both A units are powered which would be a definite advantage over the Lionels. This would eliminate the need to purchase the Lionel powered B later.

 

Decisions, decisions...

Sam,

 

     The F7s are at the club. I do not have any pictures. Unfortunately after my recent illness I don't expect to be going to the club for a few weeks. But feel free to email me (in my profile) with any questions you have. I will try to answer them from memory. Mine also have cruise control and really do run nice. With all three units smoking (very good smoke too) they are an impressive site. The best thing for me is I paid $325 for everything at Yori about 6 years ago.

 

JohnB

Sam, another nice feature of the K-Lines is the various pilots provided. You can have the large knuckle or another pilot with a smaller opening and scale coupler, or a plate with no coupler and fixed to the body. Also as noted couplers for long and close coupling between units. 

BTW, checking the Legacy K-Line site they only show F7s but no F3s. I admit my knowledge of diesels is minuscule but on my Lionel F units the only difference I can see between the F3s and F7s is the height of the fans.

 

Pete

I have that ABA set in Pennsy and they are drop dead gorgeous!  The detailing is great.  They are not the high water units from around that period.  I recall seeing a set of NYC F7's that were, and believe that was due to the newly designed/introduced twist off trucks.  If I knew how, I'd do a video for you.  I must have been fortunate as my set runs smooth as butter even at a crawl.  This would be a 180 from your E6s, as Bulldog nose seems extra exagerated on this model, maybe its the DGLE, or more likely my imagination.

 

Rich