Lionel S2 Turbine Damp vs Dry

Received mine from Ro. Completely dry and in fine condition.

I spoke with Lionel.  They said the entire batch was wet.  The rep knew what I was going to ask as soon as I mentioned S2.  Even if one was dry I would never rest knowing it was exposed to water...even salt water.  Lionel is refunding all the orders with no immediate plans to make more.  Though I'm sure they will catalog it again..I hope as this was the one loco I have been wanting.

Lionel and others stated that some even had mold...and Lionel will be destroying the inventory.

Wow!  That's the first time I've ever heard of anything like this happening!

I'm in the boat too, mine came from Charles Ro to. Lionel is just going to refund my money for it. After I had received mine I just did a once over and took some photos of and put it away since I do not have a layout or display area.

After reading of what Mike had found I inspected mine and there was a couple of badly rusty screws on the bottom of the engine that I could see and on some rust on wheels of the engine and tender. And that's only from what I can see, and who only knows what maybe in the areas I can't see. Believe it or not there is rust on the top of styrofoam in the section that is cut out for where the bottom of the engine. And that's still with the foam and plastic wrap in place. My user manual dry and OK.

And this was the engine that I have been waiting on for a long time and now I can only get a refund for it.

Sounds like even the ones that appear "dry" may not actually have been. 

lol that video is what I had in mind too.   All in all a total bummer for something I was looking forward too.  Even if some are dry...I would hate for some mold to take over my train storage closet.  had that happen to coins in a safe and had to get rid of all of them.  The odor alone was disgusting.  One positive thing...I bet Lionel will make sure this never happens again.

If we recall...this rusting issue kinda crept up on some early Legacy engines...I think the GE Demonstrator.  I also had water sitting in the plastic bag when my recent (2 years or so ago) Pennsy Lionmaster T1 arrived.    Wonder if the same problems caused these issues.

Glad your getting a refund at least Mike, but the only alternative for overseas shipping is going by air.......not sure if that will help.

Must be a new low bar for quality that's on autopilot. Instead of traveling hither and yon, maybe the Lionel folks should actually look inside those shipping crates before shooting themselves in the foot-repeatedly. Model railroaders seem to be the only folks who buy bad product repeatedly from the same manufacturer and defend to the death, their right to do so.

hello guys and gals........

Can any of you take pictures of the damp damage ?

the woman who loves the S.F.5011,623

Tiffany

To get a visual idea of the extent of water/moisture contamination or damage, maybe?

So I'm curious... Are you folks returning your S-2's to Charles Ro for refund or exchange for something else (with Ro handling the Lionel interface)?  Or is Lionel refunding your purchase directly to you? If the latter, are you returning the loco to Lionel, with Charles Ro out of the loop?

I also still see dealers selling these Locomotives.  Is Lionel issuing a recall on the whole product lot?

The last product I recall that Lionel accepted back en-masse from dealers was the Backshop.  Rumor had it that Charlie returned his entire shipment back to Lionel Michigan where the product was fixed in house before sending them back out to dealers for shipment to consumers.

Obviously, the S-2 situation is much more severe... There's no "fixing" this type of water/dampness damage.  So it's understandable that Lionel may need to destroy inventory.  But that's such an unfortunate occurrence that something like this even happened.  

David

I guess.  Seems like if it were wet, it's going back. 

Is it a more "I just wanna see it." thing?

It is to let others beware of the problem and to inspect (knowing where to look for)the train at the LHS before purchase. There are some LHS that would try to clean it up really good and to sell on E-bay as new or mint that's why.

the woman who loves the S.F.5011,623

Tiffany

If you're on the forum you know the issue. And if someone wants to clean one up, most folks wouldn't be able to tell. But post away. Maybe it would be interesting to see the extent of the wetness. 

I first contacted Charles Ro by email. They replied back to me that they were looking into it. Then I got a reply back from them to call Lionel's customer service. Lionel's customer service told me that were sending me a email with the RA to return it and that I will receive a refund. I asked about a exchange or repair but they only told me I could only return it for a refund, which I'm doing.

WOW!  I bought the PRR Legacy T1 Duplex from a guy on eBay, sealed in the shipping carton.  When I opened it, the manual was a black mass of mildew inside the envelope, and the locomotive had rust and mildew all over it.  I attributed it to his storage, never thought he could have gotten it that way.

Yes, I did send it back for a refund.  I do have one now that I bought from a different source, no water in with that one.

I guess this needs to be said. For those who have "dry" S2's and are willing to take the risk may have an instant "collector's" item on hand. There would be only a handful of surviving specimens of this loco since the vast majority of the locomotives produced are being destroyed.

I was hoping that the different versions of the S2 arrived in different batches.  They didn't.  Lionel said "yes its all of them."  Charles Ro also looked through them all and said they were damp.  The chances of this being salt water are high IMO.  So if you had one that dried out...no telling what will happen. 

It would be very hard to photograph the issue.  Except where it is really visible.  Some were even covered in mold.  The whole package just didn't feel right once I got inside the Lionel carton.  Did the vendor leave them near an open bay door prior to packaging in the master carton?  I wonder.  Or did the container get lin the ocean.

I first opened my box and noticed that when I slid the orange box and plastic sleeve out of the carton...my hand was wet.  The orange box felt flimsy.  I suspected at that point.  The owners manual was soaked and the staples beyond rusted...they had growth on them.  There were also rust stains around contact areas in the Styrofoam.  Most screws under the engine were rusting.

Maybe I will just pick up the 611 in the new Catalog if I heard that correctly.

This makes me very grateful for the 3rd Rail S2 I bought last year! I would have been very tempted to buy this one.....

The main thin is, Lionel is aware of the problem and doing the right thing by refunding the buyer!  However it's a shame that this happend but people here were already complaining about the coal load and Vision features not being on it.

Hung if you do- Hung if you dont,go figure....

Doug

No real scoop to get.  I just feel sorry for Lionel and for those folks who have been waiting for that locomotive.  I certainly commend Lionel for stepping up and doing the right thing.  That has to be quite a hit on their investment in the product, although I assume they are insured against such things.

I will see if Ed can perhaps learn more about what may have happened.  It certainly sounds like the result of an improperly sealed or defective shipping container.

Really a shame for all involved.

Hang onto that one, it's a collectors item.

The same effect happened couple years ago. The problem was found to be due to packing the locos into "uncured" styro, which releases moisture while the styro hardens over time. It's why they put silica gel bags in there, but if they pack/ship prematurely the problem is too great for any kind of absorbent to handle.

Earlier today after I had talked to Lionel customer service I was dishearten about not having this engine. My dad's 1st steam was the 671 and I thought that this was my chance to have a scale model of it. So I did search for a replacement for my 11416 and I did find one from Nicholas Smith and ordered one.

Then I took my wife and daughters out for a early dinner to celebrate my wife getting a job which seemed almost impossible for her to find one. We set off for one restaurant but it was before their opening time. So we changed course to another one, no lines to get in, hardly anybody there. So in turn we received bad service and some bad food to go along with it. All in all we did talk with the manager who was very nice and he did take care of us.

You may ask what does this have to do with the S2? As you could see my day was not going very good. Then I started reading here about more on the S2 and I started thinking that I may have made a big mistake of buying another S2. So I emailed N. Smith to see if I could cancel the order for the engine since all of the problems with it. I did plan to call them in the morning about cancelling the order. Well to my surprise I received a phone call a short time ago and it was Joel from N. Smith and I talked to him about the issues with the S2. He told me that it had already went out by UPS. He assured me that the one that I would be receiving had been checked out with no problems and that I could return it if I did not like it. He said they checked each one out and that half of the S2's that they received were bad and some of them were really bad and that all of those were sent back.

So tomorrow I should have it and I will see.

Paul,

I don't doubt that some of these will remain in circulation, and most of those will be just fine.  Nicholas Smith is a very reputable shop... so if you evaluate your locomotive and find it to be acceptable, that would be a happy ending to your saga. 

I'm currently in the process of sending mine (Builder's Scheme) back to Charles Ro -- something I initiated before this dampness issue even surfaced.  I was disappointed enough with the cast-in coal load that I wanted to return it.  There's no evidence of rust on mine.  I just checked the instruction manual also, and no rust on the staples either.  HOWEVER, I will say that the instruction manual pages "feel" very damp.  Something you'd expect if you left paper in a very humid environment for awhile.  Definitely not the usual crispness of dry paper. 

The only other oddity I noticed -- which is now explainable given the issue that has surfaced -- is that when removing the locomotive (still in its wrapping) from the lower piece of styrofoam, there were many black marks visible on the white styrofoam for both the loco and tender.  Almost appears to be grease marks, but the locomotive and tender were still completely wrapped in the protective foam AND plastic wrapper.  I looked inside a few other empty locomotive boxes of locos I purchased new, and the styrofoam bottoms are as white as snow.  So perhaps the styrofoam from my S-2 packaging was showing the initial signs of mold spores or mildew.  Can't say for sure. 

Quite honestly, had this issue not surfaced, I wouldn't have been any the wiser.  And perhaps there's nothing wrong with the model I received.  I don't know, 'cause I didn't run it.  I only photographed the tender's coal load the other day, and then wrapped it up and re-boxed everything for shipment back to Charles Ro.

The only reason it hasn't gone back yet is I'm awaiting contact from them to confirm they can still source several diesel locomotive units that I wanted, and we'd just to an even exchange.  Now that this issue has surfaced, perhaps they'll tell me to deal with Lionel directly for a return/refund of the S-2.  I'll call Ro again tomorrow, and see what's up.

David 

David, you have bad information.  Carl and I both have good locomotives as do many more.

Marty, what information is bad?  I was sending the loco back anyway, 'cause I was disappointed that Lionel took a short-cut with the tender.  Had I seen it "in person" first, I would not have purchased the locomotive.

My S-2 may very well be fine, and Charles Ro will likely exchange it for something else that I would like to purchase from them.  That's what I'm waiting on, 'cause they needed to get something that was no longer in stock to make the exchange.

All of that notwithstanding... I can see lots of folks still interested in acquiring an S-2 are receiving mixed messages.    On one hand, they hear Lionel is planning to destroy remaining inventory and provide direct consumer refunds.  And on the other hand, some folks like yourself are quite happy with theirs.

I think it's great that you're happy with your loco and its performance.  OTOH, this loco is gonna have a tough stigma to overcome if the other side of the coin is representative of potential problems.  Who knows... perhaps those who take a chance and stay the course with a good one will have a "hot" collector's item down the road!!! 

David

David, my mistake, I read quick and thought you were talking about the S-2 load being returned.  You were talking about the Backshop.  So much  for reading this late at night.  I am sorry I made a mistake on this.

I don't think you were seeing things, Marty, you just mentioned the wrong post author. 

It seems Mike W made the comment about it affecting all units and Lionel destroying the inventory in in this post.

Hopefully that turns out to be incorrect, and there are more good ones that bad ones out there.

-Dave

Hopefully, Mike Reagan will chime in on this thread at some point and provide the true facts about what is going on with this locomotive.  There appears to be some conflicting information being reported here, so it would be good to get things straight from the source.

At the risk of someone jumping down my throat for asking this question; The minor rusty screw/Styrofoam examples, Do these engines run? Did anyone get that far? I know you spent a lot on them, as I do with my engines and want them to be perfect. But if it's blemish free while sitting on the track and runs....... 

Hard to say how or if the dampness will affect the electronics. Maybe if Lionel issued a lifetime warranty on the loco I would consider keeping it.

If Lionel is destroying the entire run that will be a big time hit to Lionel's bottom line.