Lionel Sunshine Special offering

Griff...  those are MSRP?  my dealer gave me a better price on the MP mountain...

Super O Bob posted:

Griff...  those are MSRP?  my dealer gave me a better price on the MP mountain...

Yeah, Griff, you can get a better "deal" by preordering.  I preordered all 8 cars and the MoPac engine from Charles Ro.  If you preordered early, he had a special price.  Although, yes, it's ridiculously expensive still.  I've never preordered anything so expensive before.  This is my first and only Legacy steamer.  I really hope everything doesn't arrive at once.

I was unaware it was coming but even so I would not have bought the whole set. It's kind of sad from my standpoint because a Sunshine Special was likely the only chance to get a crack T&P passenger train and they decided to do Mop, which granted likely has more followers. The Flagship Texas and Pacific depot and headquarters here in Fort Worth still had the Sunshine Special departure board up, perhaps as late as the 1970's.

If an engine and consist is your dream train, it's ok to spend some bucks, in my opinion. One good thing about being a TP fan is I don't have to buy much, cause they don't make much T&P. I say that and I have ATSF, MKT, Southern, UP, and an Erie Triplex!

Mopac is T&P. 

i keep requesting more T&P from lionel...

Griff Murphey posted:

If an engine and consist is your dream train, it's ok to spend some bucks, in my opinion.

That's pretty much where I'm at.  I'm a St. Louis guy and limit myself to MoPac, Frisco, Wabash, and MKT.  I didn't have a steamer or a passenger consist and was looking for something.  This catalog really hurt my wallet.

Super O Bob posted:

Mopac is T&P. 

i keep requesting more T&P from lionel...

Yeah, I wanted to pick-up those T&P F7's that delivered earlier this fall.  I backed off when everyone said the paint job sucks.

Who the heck made TP F units? I guess I AM out of it...

Griff Murphey posted:

Who the heck made TP F units? I guess I AM out of it...

Lionel had them in their 2017 Vol. 2 catalog.  Check out page 29.

Griff...  they were in the lionel catalog last year.

Btw,  lionel is making new shells and will be making a swap of our shells.  The factory goofed and seemed to love silver.  They sprayed silver inplace of light grey.  Otherwise the t&p f3s are great.

They're in-stock at some dealers.  Charles Ro has them here.  Also the B units.  And the SuperBass units they appear to be out of but that item # is 6-85200.

beachhead2 posted:

Griff Murphey posted:

If an engine and consist is your dream train, it's ok to spend some bucks, in my opinion.

That's pretty much where I'm at.  I'm a St. Louis guy and limit myself to MoPac, Frisco, Wabash, and MKT.  I didn't have a steamer or a passenger consist and was looking for something.  This catalog really hurt my wallet.

I lived in St Louis for 12 years after college...  i remember it well...  cant recall where it was exactly, but i found a SHIP IT ON THE FRISCO viaduct or railway bridge in south county somewhere...

Super O Bob posted:

I lived in St Louis for 12 years after college...  i remember it well...  cant recall where it was exactly, but i found a SHIP IT ON THE FRISCO viaduct or railway bridge in south county somewhere...

Yes, there is a box girder bridge on Watson Road (old Route 66) that still says "Ship IT on the Frisco" on it.  It's in Shrewsbury.  Here's a picture I grabbed from the web.

I pass under this Frisco viaduct every day too...

On those TP F units; are the ones they are selling now with the corrected paint or the old shells! Or do we know?

Griff Murphey posted:

On those TP F units; are the ones they are selling now with the corrected paint or the old shells! Or do we know?

I suspect they are the old shells.  If you're going through a big dealer like Ro, I would call and find out if you can order now and get the new shell when it comes in.

beachhead2 posted:

Super O Bob posted:

I lived in St Louis for 12 years after college...  i remember it well...  cant recall where it was exactly, but i found a SHIP IT ON THE FRISCO viaduct or railway bridge in south county somewhere...

Yes, there is a box girder bridge on Watson Road (old Route 66) that still says "Ship IT on the Frisco" on it.  It's in Shrewsbury.  Here's a picture I grabbed from the web.

Thats it!  I want that on my layout!

beachhead2 posted:

Griff Murphey posted:

On those TP F units; are the ones they are selling now with the corrected paint or the old shells! Or do we know?

I suspect they are the old shells.  If you're going through a big dealer like Ro, I would call and find out if you can order now and get the new shell when it comes in.

Yes old shells.  Lionel trying to get all new product out, then starting on the replacement shells, per Ryan...

So i am expecting like April for the swap...

Thanks, and here I just reserved a TP E7A from 3rd rail.... Hmm. I'd kinda rather have this lashup.

Im begging that e7 from lionel too...

Being a T&P fan is a tuff assignment in O Guage. Scott Mann has really helped us with the E8’s and 2-10-4’s and the upcoming E7’s that I have 2 on order. I just hope he will do a 900 series mountain to pull early passenger fleets. I plan on using the E7’s to pull those sunshine special cars for now when I’m not running the upcoming lionel mopac mountain. I did order the full set of cars and Mopac mountain. I am hoping lionel comes through with the new shells for the T&P F7’s because those were a big disappointment. 

Hopefully Atlas will get back in the game because I really like the F units they produce. The Atlas swamp holly GP7’s are one of my favorite engines.

The replacement shells for T&P f3s will happen according to Ryan...

I asked again and he said they will do them as soon as the current production is done, so i assume sometime early next year we get the announcement to send them back.

Speaking of the cost of current Lionel, a friend of mine, Dr. Mike Walter, pointed out that the scale Hudson in 1937 was $75 which he avers is about $1,000 to $1300 in today’s money.

U.S. Inflation Rate, $75 in 1937 to 2017

According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics consumer price index, prices in 2017 are1,602.22% higher than prices in 1937. The dollar experienced an average inflation rate of 3.61% per year during this period.

In other words, $75 in 1937 is equivalent in purchasing power to $1,276.67 in 2017, a difference of $1,201.67 over 80 years.

Bargain!  I feel better now.  Moving on.

$75 for a 700e was a ton of money in the Great Depression in 1937. Using the CPI calculators are great but maybe these numbers put it into better perspective. How much money $75 bucks really was.  1937- Average wages per year $1,780.00. Cost of a gallon of gas 10 cents. Average cost for house rent $26.00 per month. A loaf of bread 9 cents.

Seventy five 1937 dollars equate to thirteen hundred seventeen 2018 dollars.  You can use this Bureau of Labor Statistics (BLS) webpage to compare values in various years from October 2018 back to 1913; coincidentally, 1913 was when the Federal Reserve was created by the government at the behest of the banks that own it:

https://www.bls.gov/data/inflation_calculator.htm

MikeH posted:

Super O Bob posted:

Griff...  those are MSRP?  my dealer gave me a better price on the MP mountain...

Yeah, Griff, you can get a better "deal" by preordering.  I preordered all 8 cars and the MoPac engine from Charles Ro.  If you preordered early, he had a special price.  Although, yes, it's ridiculously expensive still.  I've never preordered anything so expensive before.  This is my first and only Legacy steamer.  I really hope everything doesn't arrive at once.

Mike,

What Legacy steamer did you order to go with the Sunshine Special?

My understanding is that the older Lionel  ERIE full size 4-6-2 is almost a perfect match for the T&P P-1 Pacific. That is according to Tom Stamey. All it needs is a new tender and new paint. And decals. I would rather put money into a good conversion for a T&P than to spend that much for a MOP mountain that does not fully float my boat.

I am also interested in a T&P D-9 4-6-0. I did a kind of unsatisfying conversion of an MTH NYC el cheapo one with very simplified running gear so another fantasy I am looking to fulfill.

DHF posted:

Mike,

What Legacy steamer did you order to go with the Sunshine Special?

From the same catalog: Missouri Pacific USRA Light Mountain (1931070)