Lionel TPC's Discontinued?

I believe they are being replaced by the Legacy Powermasters.

Page 138 of the current catalog.

That's  a bit odd, still shows on website and wer in 2013 catalog. No indication that the Legacy PM's  will handle the voltage like the TPC's

Does anyone know what the AMP Rating is of the new "Legacy Powermaster"?

Fred

I seem to recall that the Legacy PMs are rated at 180 watts.

I thought that this question was raised before (LUG meeting or some other Lionel event) and that yes, the TPC 300/400 will be retired the way the original PowerMasters were/are but a higher current Legacy compatible device may still replace them.  

Do the new PowerMasters provide the short DC pulses and "macro" support for PS-1/2/3 in their coventional mode?  

The catalog does not state the amp rating or anything about pulses.

Here is the description from the catalog:

The reason why I started using the Track Power Controllers was because the original PowerMasters were not consistent in their response.

The new Legacy PowerMasters have to be superior to the TCP to be worth purchasing.

Andrew

Wasn't the TPCs going to be redesigned just like the ASC?  I seem to recall this mentioned somewhere.

Jim

There's no mention of this in any literature related to the Legacy PMs that I could find.

Guess the prices on these will skyrocket just like the CAB1's!

Glad I have all I need.

Seems like they are trying to get away from anything that was designed by IC Controls Lou Kovatch.

These short DC pulse commands are supported in the Legacy Power Master.

Thanks, Jon.

Maybe Lou K, ala IC Controls, will get back in the business after his non-compete agreement period is over. Should be fairly close by now.

I think he had some other ideas in mind as they related to combined command control and expanding the potential for one controller for all systems or perhaps providing some sort of a bridge module that would accomplish the same thing.

Jon,

How many AMPS are the new LEGACY POWER MASTERS rated??

Fred

I'd like to add that on page 136 in the 2013 signature catalog, it states, "The LEGACY PowerMaster replaces the need for the following products: TPC 300 and TPC 400 Track Power Controllers, TMCC PowerMaster; TMCC Accessory Motor Controller; TMCC Block Power Controller."

I guess that means that the TMCC AMC and BPC will be retired shortly as well?

Hi Fred,

The specification states 180W, so at 18V that would be 10A. 

One of the unique features of a TPC was that in Conventional operation of MTH units/locomotives you could program the TPC to eliminate all the bell, bell, whistle, whistle......  commands necessary in conventional mode.  I assume the new Power masters do the same.  Always wanted to know what the Aux+ and Aux- were used for on the TPC. 

I wonder how the Legacy PowerMaster is going to replace the AMC?

John,

  Just guessing here, but maybe with the 200 speed steps it gives better motor control. I am sure a TPC can do the same.

Art

Lionel may use the programming features in the CAB-2/Legacy base to handle the BPC/AMC functions while the new PowerMaster just provides remote variable voltage control.

Since the AMC provides DC motor outputs, I'm a bit hard pressed to see how the Legacy PowerMaster replaces it.

Nicole,

Thanks for the REPLY. I think you are spot on!!!

Fred

Products not out.  Primary function is to replace the original PM's that require 27 mhz support.  The only "issue" I have with it is the 180 watt max output.  It was nice to have 300/400 watt capability.

Chuck, We are working on a 400W upgraded power system to replace the 400W TPC.

Let me ask the forumites, should the 400W be wireless (455khz) like the Legacy PM -or- wired like the TPC?

Jon, 

In a perfect world I'd vote Wireless to the extent it can be made bullet proof. 

Wired backup might be a better way to minimize returns/complaints.  

Eric

Lou always said that they were for future use. I know he was working on a collision avoidance system that made use of the Lionel infrared signals. The +/- terminals might have allowed bi-directional communication.

I'd second the vote for wireless, I'd like that you don't need to daisy-chain them.  The ability to simply plop them down anywhere is very nice as well.  That's a feature of the SC-2 that I really like. 

Another issue is that if you have enough serial stuff, you need a booster, and the only one currently available is going out of production.

Can you confirm or deny that the new Legacy PowerMaster is going to replace the AMC?  If so, how would that work?

Hi Jon,

I too would vote for wireless, with an optional wired connection if possible. That would provide the best of all worlds. 

Wireless. 

Wireless. 

Hardware wise for updates, is it possible to change the connection from Serial to USB?

I vote for wireless.  And thanks for keeping the power hungry hounds in mind! :-)

Lionel will have a "Booster" - called the SER2.  The SER2 converts the new interconnect Bus called the PDI (Packet Data Interface) to Serial at 9600 baud.  It also has decent drive capability, aka "Booster" function.   The best thing about the SER2 board is that it opens up the Legacy command set in a bi-directional sense.  Things are about to get interesting.  More on this when I am ready to discuss.

The Reference of the LPM  (Legacy Power Master) to work as an AMC, is a stretch.  The LPM can control a motor and adjust the voltage to the motor, but it is one channel - so it is able to replace an AMC in a limited sense.  In another thread, we discussed the AMC2; with back-emf motor outputs.  I am still designing this - maybe late next year for introduction.

I want to touch on the PDI bus a bit.  The soon to be available IR Sensor tracks are on the PDI bus, the WIFI, SER2- also soon to be available are on the PDI bus.  I will soon release an ASC2 and BPC2, again on the PDI bus.  I plan on the AMC2 operating from the PDI bus,and thought to make a TPC2 that works on the PDI bus.

The PDI bus is a 115k baud bidirectional bus, and the drive levels are RS232.  The connections are point to point, so no loading problem happens; each module has 2 ports that can be used interchangeably.  You cannot parallel connections, because there is a handshake line in the cables.   The PDI bus has an encapsulated protocol with checksums.  Errors cause retransmission, the bus can run 1000ft; and you can hang quite a few modules on the bus (easily 50).  The power for the logic on each module is supplied on the PDI cable.  Output control from the logic is opto-coupled to the load drivers - the ICC controls were not opto-isolated and caused us a lot of grief in many a layout.  (some layouts had no issues though).

The best thing about the PDI bus is that we have documented the bus and plan to make the protocol available.  As I stated - things are about to get interesting.

Wireless please!

Oh Jon, things are going to get interesting!  Maybe a Legacy upgrade kit is next?