Lionel Trains VisionLine Live Show On TrainWorldTV!

Hi Ken, this is great news...was curious if we can ask questions or if you can ask on our behalf? You may know this already, but in case you don't, there's been a few of us, don't know how many, who have desired a Vision Line Triplex for some years, and Lionel's brochure shows most of the Erie models with white-rimmed drivers and all-white pilot wheels. Some fans may want that "out of the paint factory" new look, though some of us would prefer at least one version with blackened wheels. Also, a few of us Halloween nuts were hoping for more of a, shall I say, scary name, End of the Line, Graveyard Special, etc. in lieu of the rather tame-lame "Happy Halloween." FWIW: some of us have written to Lionel making these requests, but one can never know if they reach the right person or not.

Thank you.

Paul

Thanks, Paul.  I passed your suggestion along.

Orange, red, or purple rimmed wheels would be a nice thought for the Halloween version; but white never!

Speaking of whitewalls, I couldn't believe every single VisonLine Niagara had whitewalls. They could have at least made ONE without, just to broaden their potential customer base. I passed on that engine because of it. I would hate to see that happen again with the Triplex.

@Paul Kallus posted:

Hi Ken, this is great news...was curious if we can ask questions or if you can ask on our behalf? You may know this already, but in case you don't, there's been a few of us, don't know how many, who have desired a Vision Line Triplex for some years, and Lionel's brochure shows most of the Erie models with white-rimmed drivers and all-white pilot wheels. Some fans may want that "out of the paint factory" new look, though some of us would prefer at least one version with blackened wheels. Also, a few of us Halloween nuts were hoping for more of a, shall I say, scary name, End of the Line, Graveyard Special, etc. in lieu of the rather tame-lame "Happy Halloween." FWIW: some of us have written to Lionel making these requests, but one can never know if they reach the right person or not.

Thank you.

Paul

Not to steal this tread but Mr. Muffin announced a custom run without the whitewall tires

@Bossman284 posted:

Not to steal this tread but Mr. Muffin announced a custom run without the whitewall tires

Lionel should also offer one or two of the catalogued SKUs without whitewalls/stripes and polished drive rods & cylinders.  The entire dealer network would benefit.

Based upon the complaints about the as received condition of some VL Big Boys, my Triplex Halloween preorder is hanging by a thread.

@Paul Kallus posted:

Hi Ken, this is great news...was curious if we can ask questions or if you can ask on our behalf? You may know this already, but in case you don't, there's been a few of us, don't know how many, who have desired a Vision Line Triplex for some years, and Lionel's brochure shows most of the Erie models with white-rimmed drivers and all-white pilot wheels. Some fans may want that "out of the paint factory" new look, though some of us would prefer at least one version with blackened wheels. Also, a few of us Halloween nuts were hoping for more of a, shall I say, scary name, End of the Line, Graveyard Special, etc. in lieu of the rather tame-lame "Happy Halloween." FWIW: some of us have written to Lionel making these requests, but one can never know if they reach the right person or not.

Thank you.

Paul

So on the live feed I asked if Lionel could lose the whitewalls on the Halloween version and Ken Sr. quips that is what a black Sharpie is for, and Ryan says that with the lights out you won't see the whitewalls.

So you ask a legitimate question and you get blown off by both the dealer and Lionel?  Great display of customer service and you just cost yourselves a preorder.

I am not accustomed to spending $2,000+ for the privilege of getting quips and snarky responses instead of thoughtful replies.

And for those who still have a dog in this farce did you notice that the delivery date has been pushed back from the initial video date of first quarter 2024 to maybe Halloween 2024.

Trick or treat indeed.

Put away your black sharpie and order this one:

Triplex without white wheels

@Paul Kallus posted:

Hi Ken, this is great news...was curious if we can ask questions or if you can ask on our behalf? You may know this already, but in case you don't, there's been a few of us, don't know how many, who have desired a Vision Line Triplex for some years, and Lionel's brochure shows most of the Erie models with white-rimmed drivers and all-white pilot wheels. Some fans may want that "out of the paint factory" new look, though some of us would prefer at least one version with blackened wheels. Also, a few of us Halloween nuts were hoping for more of a, shall I say, scary name, End of the Line, Graveyard Special, etc. in lieu of the rather tame-lame "Happy Halloween." FWIW: some of us have written to Lionel making these requests, but one can never know if they reach the right person or not.

Thank you.

Paul

Heh Paul, did you appreciate the credence that your questions/suggestions were given by Lionel?  It is one thing to be ignored and quite another to be made light of.  

And was the question about the possibility of scarier name even brought up?

Hi Chuck, I am guessing dealers have to walk a tightrope with Lionel.

Fortunately, this very day Mr. Muffins vis a vis special newsletter announced a limited run of the no-whitewall edition of the Triplex and so Lionel has heard us . If you didn't get the e-mail, send me one and I'll forward it to you.

Chuck/Charles,

As you may have already seen in this thread, we did indeed pass the suggestion for no white walls to Lionel before the show, and as you also already probably saw another dealer already jumped on to do a custom run without the whitewalls. The whitewalls were on the builder's photos of the actual triplex so they based it on the more prototypical side.  Lionel already came out with a catalog, and produced photos, and dealers already took preorders for these items.  It would also be unfair to all the people who already preordered these engines with the white walls to have them changed. Unfortunately, it is difficult for any company to change what they are producing because they plan these items so far in advance and have already committed to various aspects.  It is a good suggestion and they have heard the suggestions, perhaps they will make it in the future run.  However, us pounding the same suggestion or complaint to Lionel from a consumer does not make changes happen instantly or is really enjoyable on the other side of the coin.  That being said, coloring it in with a marker was a joke and tongue and cheek as obviously, no one will do that on a 2000 engine.  As I am typing this I actually think someone may use a weathering marker/powders to dirty up the engine so I guess it might be conceivable.  Regardless, I apologize if you took his tongue-in-cheek option to marker or weather the train offensively. 

Thanks Ken, for forwarding that suggestion ahead of the show.

FWIW: some of us have been discussing the white-rimmed drivers and white pilot wheels on another forum channel. We didn't desire Lionel to change all the versions, but just offer one or two without the white rims and pilot wheels.

Would like to know where to put in song requests for the next show, with Dave performing a couple of numbers on his piano at the Dave Cave.

@TrainWorld.com watched some last evening after the fact.  Found it very enjoyable.  I got the jokes but I understand the frustration from some.  You can never discredit folks that have legitimate points.  I think your points are all valid in your previous post though as well.  If you made every variation of a locomotive throughout it's life you could fill a catalog with just that one.  In the end those folks will get what they want a Tri-Plex without white walls.

Thanks for the shout out for the Legacy Users Group Video on Base3 and Cab3 App from you and Ryan!

@Paul Kallus posted:

Hi Chuck, I am guessing dealers have to walk a tightrope with Lionel.

Fortunately, this very day Mr. Muffins vis a vis special newsletter announced a limited run of the no-whitewall edition of the Triplex and so Lionel has heard us . If you didn't get the e-mail, send me one and I'll forward it to you.

Paul,

Yeah I get that Johnny Cash wrote a song about that, 'I walk the Line'.  

Would it not have been preferable at some point for Ryan or Dave to step aside from the sales pitch and simply state that they were aware of some of the questions regarding the white sidewalls and give a brief explanation of what was and was not possible at this point?

Likewise for the scarier Halloween name.

Would have taken about 3 minutes tops.  Regardless of the answer I and others would have been satisfied.

My displeasure is directed primarily at Lionel as after Ken Sr's quip, Ryan could have done a 'but seriously ' pivot and given a more insightful answer.

You only get one chance to make a first impression.  

Good points, Chuck.

Someone, maybe it was Ken Sr.? made the comment some of us have been discussing on the other thread about renaming the Halloween Triplex...saying, and I am paraphrasing, so you can run it all year round, not just on Halloween. Perhaps another custom Triplex is in the works or this could be the - "End of the Line" pun intended

Paul,

End of the line is likely a good exit line for this thread as well!

Thanks, Paul and Marty.  Understand the frustration on the product and hopefully, there will continue to be more options or even the possibility of a different option down the line through Lionel. However, I don't believe anyone was discredited, and hope you will read a dealer/manufacturer side of things to my response below. 

Charles/Chuck.
Not to keep on going back and forth, but I don't want you to be upset at Lionel without the whole story. (Please note I am not speaking on behalf of Lionel just sharing my experience so you can decide).  I commented previously on this thread to Paul that I sent Lionel his comment, which I did.  5 minutes before the show, Lionel did talk to us offline about the question and opinion Paul sent in. It was a nice quick chat and they voiced the challenges of making a change right now which was more than fair in my opinion. The email from us on Paul's opinion to Lionel was not discredited but actually acknowledged and discussed. He wrote an opinion and kindly asked if we could pass it on which we did.  We did not have any chance to post a response as we are live. Unfortunately, we aren't able to respond to every question, comment, or complaint. Nor do we think it is appropriate or enjoyable to have our guests answer everything live or defend their position or stance on things. I'm sure some people may only want to hear about the products that are being made and not about what will not be.  Some opinions, suggestions, or complaints are better to be answered offline or they can just be told to the manufacturer and it is up to them how they want to proceed. Instant responses are not always easy to do especially when they are manufacturing thousands of items, juggling a million things, and especially with the complexity of these trains.  We literally spoke about it 5 minutes before the show so not much time to respond. 

In fairness, I think you could agree if you read your comment aloud live not knowing the context or tone it can come a little pointed even though that may not have been your intention.  I believe Ken Sr. used a joke with every intent to defuse the situation to keep everyone comfortable on set. As this is live and not prerecorded not everything goes to script and is not edited so it will not always be perfect.  I'm not speaking for Lionel but as someone going live, everyone sees the posts and comments coming in, so subtle comments or jabs are uncomfortable in a live setting. Repetitive comments coming in live over and over also can add to some friction and tension even though we all do our best to keep our composure.  I know it is frustrating not having a product exactly the way you want it. There are always going to be some people who like it one way and other people the other way. No manufacturer is going to please every single person.  Just like you do not feel the joke was appropriate to brush your concern over perhaps a different question could have been aligned more appropriately or put the people on live TV at ease. I'm sure if the question came in as Hi Lionel great job on the VisionLine Halloween engine looks cool, would love to see it without the whitewalls next time, it would be a little easier to digest on-air Live or handled a little differently.  I think keeping the reason off the air and giving a response is still fair to not sideline the show. Lionel also does not have to be on our shows. Both Dave and Ryan spend extra hours of their long day to be on air with us which we truly appreciate.  It is not easy to take the sling and arrows every day when you know not everyone is going to love every single product you make.  I know they are exhausted and tired but they still make it happen for us.  Hopefully, in writing this, you can understand a little bit how it comes on our side live and hopefully will not be as frustrated with Lionel. Regardless, your comments are received, noted, and understood. Hopefully, we can all try to do better next time. 

Ken, thank you for your thoughtful and detailed explanation of the context of this white sidewall tempest in a teapot.  We are not talking about organ transplants after all are we?

My question was sent w/o anger or malice, just short, sweet and to the point.  

So now that the air has been cleared and the contexts clarified  let's all relax and have some fun!

ha agreed!  Feel free to reach out if you have any further concerns. 

I think Ken Jr. was right on with his statement "There are always going to be some people who like it one way and other people the other way. No manufacturer is going to please every single person."  Some people will complain about even the most mundane things, or take comments the wrong way. Those who think live unrehearsed presentations are going to be polished in every respect have never done them. Personally, I like and appreciate the spontaneity of the live presentation, and enjoyed the show. I'm sure Ryan and Dave have developed thick skins. Certainly required when making public presentations to some folks on the Forum! 

Nothing a fine tip paint brush and a jar of steam locomotive black can't fix.

I paint all of the driver tires (rims) on my steam locomotives. Nickle silver, even when it's darkened, still doesn't look right.

Thanks for you comments but IMO this thread has outlived it's usefulness.

Can someone shut to down?