Lionel transformer #6-32923

Unfortunately no; the 700e features a large motor, smoke and sound system, which is too much for the 6-32923 to handle without overloading. An 80 watt power supply (such as the CW80 included in many starter sets) or larger would be ideal.

-John

Agreed, I just tested my 6-18005 and it was drawing 1.9A-2.0A at 11V running all by itself. Part of this is because the smoke unit is hard wired to the pickup power connection point with no way to turn off as delivered (no smoke switch).

So again, a transformer rated at 1.8A would be pushed IMO right to the limit with this engine- even just on rollers.

In general you never want to max out a power supply; doing so will make the supply work harder, generating more heat and ultimately shortening the service life.

Vernon's measurements give you a starting point for the selecting the right transformer; at 2 amps and 11 volts the locomotive is drawing approximately 22 watts (Watts = Volts x Amps). Since most toy train transformers are most efficient at 50% of the rated wattage, your locomotive would need a power supply rating of 50 watts or more (mathematically the power draw is 44 watts, but that assumes a high efficiency transformer with no power loss in the wires to the track). The 6-32923 is rated at maximum 36 watts, making it too small for the application.

Additionally I would recommend using a transformer with a variable throttle and direction, bell and whistle buttons (to change direction and trigger the sounds). Power bricks are not a good option because the locomotive would only receive maximum voltage (typically 18 volts), resulting in jackrabbit starts and no way to slow the locomotive to a more prototypical speed. I also like to match the era of the locomotive with the transformer; the 6-18005 was made in 1990, so I would only consider modern era transformers that use solid state electronics. Postwar-era transformers are plentiful, but they were designed for locomotives that do not have circuit boards and other sensitive electronics.

Hope this helps!

-John

Thanks for the tips! When displaying the 6-18005 on it's roller base as a mantle display, I was looking for the (physically) smallest transformer possible with built-in circuit breaker. Retro-fitting a NO SMOKE switch (any suggestions?) would help reduce current draw as well as not fog up the glass cover! Also not anticipating to activate any sounds/bells/whistles or changing direction while under glass... just a slow movement of all the mechanical parts. Not familiar with many modern power supplies other than the #6-32923. An old #1073 post-war transformer might fit the bill,  and Type Q transformers have a cool art deco look to them!

The Type Q, 1073, 1033 and other Postwar-era transformers will work, but check that the cord and internal circuit breaker are all in good working order. Even the "youngest" postwar transformer is more than 50 years old, so I would err on the side of caution.

I would also consider the Lionel CW-80 (6-14198),  MTH Z-500 (40-500), Z-750 (40-750) or Z-1000 (40-1000) transformers to power the 700e; the Lionel unit is rated at 80 watts, whereas the Z-500, 750 and 1000 are rated at 50, 75 and 100 watts respectively.

Running without sound and directional control is very easy - there is an on/off switch on the tender for Railsounds, and the e-unit can be locked into one direction by disconnecting the plug on the right side between the e-unit and motor.

The "no smoke" switch is more challenging given the lack of space to attach the switch on the boiler. It may be possible to tuck a single pole/single throw (SPST) switch behind the boiler front (the door opens), but if the locomotive will be used long term as a display piece, disconnecting the wires to the heating element may be the easier option.

-John

Again, thanks for the tips! Any suggestions as to where I may find a wiring diagram/schematic for the 6-18005 (or any Lionel locomotive with a similar smoke circuit) where I can place a circuit interrupt switch?

There is a single wire that comes from the smoke unit on that Hudson, you just stick the switch in series with it and the job is done.

From this post by Pat @harmonyards a picture of the inside of a 6-18005 and the original puffer smoke unit and the one wire going straight from the smoke resistor to the 3rd rail pickup roller connection junction point. The black wire poking out of the top of the smoke unit with heatshrink over the connection going to the metal eyelet terminal with the other green wires. Cut that wire to turn the smoke unit off and insert a switch if you want to be able to turn on and off.

Back to transformer questions; would a Lionel 6-4690 (aka MW 4690) be suitable for a mantle display power supply? The rating is only 50VA so I'm thinking it may just have enough juice for the job (smoke and sound units disengaged). Being a solid state modern design it does seem to offer better protection for the electronics in the 6-18005.

@RobbieNuke posted:

Back to transformer questions; would a Lionel 6-4690 (aka MW 4690) be suitable for a mantle display power supply? The rating is only 50VA so I'm thinking it may just have enough juice for the job (smoke and sound units disengaged). Being a solid state modern design it does seem to offer better protection for the electronics in the 6-18005.

I know you are trying to save money, use what you have, and trying to make what you think are smart decisions.

The MW is just not a great transformer. It's not the worst thing ever either, but it's a chopper style transformer. Just because it's "electronic" doesn't make it automagically better. I recently had to repair one of these because they killed the output transistor (TRIAC) with a short or voltage spike and it was outputting 100% on regardless of throttle position. Again, this is a chopper- it's not necessarily "good" at protecting anything, especially not other electronics.

So sure, if you disconnect the smoke unit, and the sound- you are only running the motor and headlight. The headlight is a constant voltage unit regulated to 6V from track power via a single diode and capacitor.

Point being, if I was going to do this, then I would put a TVS (Transient Voltage Suppression) https://www.digikey.com/en/pro...inc/1-5KE33CA/688026 across the track output terminals- mainly to protect the transformer from getting a voltage spike from the large inductance of the motor from killing the internal circuitry of the transformer.

@Vernon Barry posted:

.. I would put a TVS (Transient Voltage Suppression) https://www.digikey.com/en/pro...inc/1-5KE33CA/688026 across the track output terminals- mainly to protect the transformer from getting a voltage spike from the large inductance of the motor from killing the internal circuitry of the transformer...

This is a very good idea for the MW & RS-1 transformers. If you can protect them (from themselves, primarily), they can be robust, reliable power sources.  Whenever I have one open, I put TVS diodes across each of the 2 outputs due to their sensitivity to voltage spikes.

It helps some with components downstream, too, it sure does no harm anyway.

Thanks for the TVS tip! Currently, I have an old LW transformer for operating my 6-18005 (w/ 5-car Madison consist) on a double-reverse loop 6x20 layout for the holidays. I just let it run as part of my Christmas tree/garden. No operating accessories or other play value, just an occasional toot on the whistle!

Contemplating using a rollerbase (instead of the non-operating standard display) for a fireplace mantle display, thereby necessitating another power supply, where it may only operate a few hours at a time throughout the rest of the year. So far I've only considered traditional vintage transformers (i.e. Type Q, Type A, Type 1073) for the mantle display, but I had concerns about the old circuit breakers that take a few moments to 'kick-in'. The MW 4690 box states a shut-down in microseconds when shorts are detected (see attachment), as well as some LED indicators on the front/top to more easily monitor things. I have zero experience with any of the 'modern' power supplies/transformers.

@RobbieNuke posted:

...The MW 4690 box states a shut-down in microseconds when shorts are detected...

The circuit breaker is to protect the transformer(primarily) & wiring from overloads, so whether they are electronic or thermal(tested, working properly) doesn't really matter. Breakers will not protect from voltage spikes or transients.

For a static display like you propose, use the smallest transformer that will do the job.