Lionel Twin Bin Dump Car

Dan, not sure what you mean by 'no dice'? The method of operation is you only need one pickup shoe on the contactor blade at a time. You position one dump bed over the receiving bin and cycle the first bed. Then move the car over the second contactor and cycle the 2nd dump bed. The 2 shoes are wired together.

When I locate the car over one OTC contractor and press the control button, nothing happens.  But if I locate the car over an RCS track, it works.  

Dan Padova posted:

  I'm using constant power from terminal B on my ZW. 

Which other terminals of the ZW are connected to the track?

Yes, the copper clips are in place on the contractors.

Terminal A is connected to the track.

Yes, the outside rails are wired to the U terminal.

ADCX Rob posted:

Dan Padova posted:

  I'm using constant power from terminal B on my ZW. 

Which other terminals of the ZW are connected to the track?

Rob, Terminal A is track power.  Terminal B powers my O22 switches.  Terminal C powers operating accessories.  Terminal D is not used.

I'd like to add that the car works when located over an RCS track section.  

Dan Padova posted:

... if I locate the car over an RCS track, it works.  

Uncouple or Unload?

Do both bins dump simultaneously on the RCS?  I'm  not sure the RCS and UCS operate identically. I think one carries hot only to shoes, the other may carry hot or common depending on button combo....?

However...

If each bin is supposed to dump alone but both dump; I'd say it was rewired with one shoe as "ground" and the other as "hot", parallel coil wiring.

One bin dumping alone means 1 shoe to 1 dump coil ONLY (and both dump coil's (2) remaining "grounds" would go to the chassis/ground"/wheels; isolated coil wiring.  Now feeding a switched/button hot to a shoe blade is all you'd need.

Adriatic posted:

...One bin dumping alone means 1 shoe to 1 dump coil ONLY (and both dump coil's (2) ...

Only one coil on this model.

It's pretty simple, maybe it's time to get out a multimeter.

Have you checked for a broken wire at the sliding shoe on the dead shoe?

Hi Dan, I assume that you run O gauge tubular track. The brass inserts would not be used on O-27 track.  On the OTC  contactor you could connect the 1 terminal to the 2 terminal and see, with center rail power on, if you get one ratchet each time the car runs over the contactor.  This takes all other possible problems out of the circuit.  If this does not work, the problem has to be in the OTC. 

ADCX Rob posted:

Dan Padova posted:

... if I locate the car over an RCS track, it works.  

Uncouple or Unload?

The unload button.

Adriatic posted:

Do both bins dump simultaneously on the RCS?  I'm  not sure the RCS and UCS operate identically. I think one carries hot only to shoes, the other may carry hot or common depending on button combo....?

However...

If each bin is supposed to dump alone but both dump; I'd say it was rewired with one shoe as "ground" and the other as "hot", parallel coil wiring.

One bin dumping alone means 1 shoe to 1 dump coil ONLY (and both dump coil's (2) remaining "grounds" would go to the chassis/ground"/wheels; isolated coil wiring.  Now feeding a switched/button hot to a shoe blade is all you'd need.

 

Each bin unloads separately, just the way it is supposed to do.

Chuck Sartor posted:

Have you checked for a broken wire at the sliding shoe on the dead shoe?

ADCX Rob posted:

Adriatic posted:

...One bin dumping alone means 1 shoe to 1 dump coil ONLY (and both dump coil's (2) ...

Only one coil on this model.

It's pretty simple, maybe it's time to get out a multimeter.

ADCX Rob posted:

Adriatic posted:

...One bin dumping alone means 1 shoe to 1 dump coil ONLY (and both dump coil's (2) ...

Only one coil on this model.

It's pretty simple, maybe it's time to get out a multimeter.

At one point I figured the OTC lockons were not wired correctly so I tried my operating barrel gondola and it worked perfectly.

Chuck Sartor posted:

Have you checked for a broken wire at the sliding shoe on the dead shoe?

Visually they seem to be intact.  But if the car dumps on an RCS track section I would assume the wiring was fine.  

David Johnston posted:

Hi Dan, I assume that you run O gauge tubular track. The brass inserts would not be used on O-27 track.  On the OTC  contactor you could connect the 1 terminal to the 2 terminal and see, with center rail power on, if you get one ratchet each time the car runs over the contactor.  This takes all other possible problems out of the circuit.  If this does not work, the problem has to be in the OTC. 

I'll give that a try.

I revisited my wiring.  The only error was in my answer to Rob in a reply to his post lat evening.  Track power on my PW ZW is terminal D, switch track power is terminal C, accessory power is terminal B.  Terminal A is not used.  

Opening up the bottom of the car does not reveal anything out of order.  I did notice that contrary to the post war version, the two wires coming from the sliding shoes are not soldered to a lug, instead proceed directly to the coil.  

With the car off the track, I used a continuity tester and touched both sliding shoes.  The light on the tester lit.  I presume that's a good thing.  

Dan Padova posted:

David Johnston posted:

Hi Dan, I assume that you run O gauge tubular track. The brass inserts would not be used on O-27 track.  On the OTC  contactor you could connect the 1 terminal to the 2 terminal and see, with center rail power on, if you get one ratchet each time the car runs over the contactor.  This takes all other possible problems out of the circuit.  If this does not work, the problem has to be in the OTC. 

I'll give that a try.

David, I tried disconnecting the wire to terminal C on my ZW and connected it to the left clip on the OTC contractor.  This did not make the car work either.

Here's a thought.  Was the remake intended to operate on an RCS or UCS track section ?   Since, as I stated earlier, this one does.  I also have a post-war version that operates on an OTC as well as the RCS section.  

Oh, this is the first you mentioned it was the remake of the car. I'll bet everyone thought it was a postwar one. More to come.......

After reading the instructions online, The car did not come with OTC contactors. It is meant to be used with an uncoupling track. But it looks like you have to unload the bins where the car sits. Need 2 dump bins?

If this is the PWC version, you can use 4 OTC clips to accomplish operation like the postwar version.

So can two RCS or UCS sections be used ?   If so, can the two sections be controlled by the same controller ?

ADCX Rob posted:

If this is the PWC version, you can use 4 OTC clips to accomplish operation like the postwar version.

Rob, can you elaborate on the set-up of four OTCs ?

Dan Padova posted:

ADCX Rob posted:

If this is the PWC version, you can use 4 OTC clips to accomplish operation like the postwar version.

Rob, can you elaborate on the set-up of four OTCs ?

Here is two placed for emptying the right bin. Position two more, wired in parallel to these two, to empty the left bin.

ADCX Rob posted:

Dan Padova posted:

ADCX Rob posted:

If this is the PWC version, you can use 4 OTC clips to accomplish operation like the postwar version.

Rob, can you elaborate on the set-up of four OTCs ?

Here is two placed for emptying the right bin. Position two more, wired in parallel to these two, to empty the left bin.

Thanks Rob.  It works with just the two that you have shown in the diagram.  Both sliding shoes must be contacting each of the two OTC blades at the same time.  Then the dumping action works as designed.  The red wire shown in your diagram was what was needed, along with locating the two OTCs correctly.

Dan, if you have already answered this before I apologize.  Are both OTC contactors working properly; i.e., are the blades "hot" and short if briefly connected to the center rail?

Have you tried simply using test leads to see if each shoe, when energized, will cause a bin to dump?

Good luck!

Pingman posted:

Dan, if you have already answered this before I apologize.  Are both OTC contactors working properly; i.e., are the blades "hot" and short if briefly connected to the center rail?

Have you tried simply using test leads to see if each shoe, when energized, will cause a bin to dump?

Good luck!

No apologies needed, Carl.  More often than not, I can't recall something I did a few minutes ago.  

Yes, both OTC contractors are working.  I did not do the test lead thing, but did check continuity between them.  

I finally used Rob's solution and ran a wire from the right hand clip on one OTC to the outer rail.  Then I made sure that both contractors were positioned the correct distance from one another so that both contact shoes on the car rested on them at the same time.