Lionel up vision genset smoke unit?

I'd start by checking the smoke units themselves.  First step, I would simply tighten the screws on all the smoke unit element connections, that's a common source of issues.  Check all the wiring between the smoke units and the regulator board.  While you're in there, open the smoke units and make sure the wicks are not cooked, and the resistors are indeed still 8 ohms.  The smoke units themselves are just dumb units with a resistor and a motor, so there's not much else to go wrong with them.

 

You can actually test the smoke units on the bench if you're so inclined.  For these, I'd put about 4 volts DC on the motors and then 4-5 volts across the smoke resistor using my bench supplies.  You should get copious smoke with those voltages.

 

If all else fails, it could be the regulator board, though your symptoms suggest to me that it might be simply wiring or those loose screws.

Did you read the directions for this unit?  The smoke stacks operate with RS and rpm changes.  Sounds like some of this is normal behavior as the engine runs.  Depending on how many of the 3 engines are simulated as needed determines which stacks smoke.  Have you run this at high RPM to see if all 3 engines start and therefore smoke?  G

George, if you use the RPM up to max on the CAB2, you should get all the stacks running, I've done it to demo the unit in the past.

Yes I have ramped it up to high with the cab two. I got smoke out of all three units. Although not all at once on high rpms. Maybe only one was a steady stream on full rpms. When you try ramping up the rpms to full there is no smoke from all three stacks. They act as though they dont heat up when activated. The caps are all forced up when at full rpms. You can hear the fans running also. This is why I thought the fan control pcb board could be bad. Hope you can get a picture of the units operation the way I described it. Do any of you feel I am right about the smoke pcb board?

Thanks john will do. Any cautions taking this engine apart I should know.

Well, there's a lot of delicate parts on the shell, the detail is not the most robust on the planet.   Other than that, nothing other than the normal precautions.

 

Thanks john will give it ago when i get hom

John, Yes I know the RPM ramp up the smoke, which is what I was implying when I posted.  I am still confused some what by the post.  He has stated all three did smoke, but then not all at one.  All stack go up.

 

So it sounds like the fans do run all at once and air is pushing up the stacks. At one point all three make smoke, so at least when the simulated engine is started up it is making smoke, but then the smoke stops on at least one stack?

 

I don't know how Lionel programmed the logic, maybe Jon can contribute on this one.  Does it need to sense motor current and actual load to get the third unit smoking?

 

If not, have you tried a reset, maybe the Legacy board being reset will reset smoke PCB.  Otherwise it sound like when the resistor heats up something opens and it no longer stays hot.  So as John mentioned tightening up the screws, or checking the connectors.   Hate to see you open this up, if the unit is working normally, or it is something you can do via a reset.  G

Reprogramming sure can't hurt, though the symptoms suggest something going on with the smoke units or controller.

 

 

I know I can get smoke from all three stacks by running the revs up, so I'm assuming that's how it should work.

What john stated is right, right? When you ramp up the rpms manualy should not all three smoke units be putting out smoke. I also thought the same and did the reset aux2 per the instructions.
Under a small load or at low rpms should i not get at least one unit putting out smoke. I have yet to get this result. BTW thanks for every ones help.

What john stated is right, right? When you ramp up the rpms manualy should not all three smoke units be putting out smoke. I also thought the same and did the reset aux2 per the instructions.
Under a small load or at low rpms should i not get at least one unit putting out smoke. I have yet to get this result. BTW thanks for every ones help.

See if Eric's video helps...

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?f...ed&v=elxMtU9Z038

As the video shows, at full RPM all the stacks should be smoking.  The fan does NOT run when there is no heat to the smoke element, so what you see is not normal operation.

 

I'll say again, something is amiss, and my bet is on a poor connection, though the smoke regulator board could be the culprit as well.

 

Well I guess it is time to open it up.  One thing from your original post is that you state you feel like there is heat on all three just not smoke.  So maybe not enough smoke fluid or the batting is charred.  Since this is used, I guess I would open it up and inspect the interior of the smoke units.  G

Seems there is hot air comming from all three stacks when at full rpms. There is fluid in the units.I used a needle applicator and put 15 drops in each unit. Blew down each stack to unclog any air bubbles. When I start it up I get a steady stream of smoke from one unit for a brief time. Then it stops. Sometimes I get two streams of smoke from two stacks when rpms are ramped up. They only last less than a minute.
When the engine is ramped up at full rpms I can put my ear over the smoke stack holes and feel hot air. But know smoke comming out. Even when I blow down the stack. Have taken the shell off and found no lose or pinched wires. Everything looks to be in order. This has me puzzled. Guess it has to go back to canfield. Bad thing is they said when emailed them about this that they are not taking out of warranty repairs untill feb or later. Maybe patricks right but not seeing smoke at full rpms like in the videos has me thinking something is amiss here.

well fwiw , i do remember it being a heavy drinker-- maybe keep adding 7 drops at a time and test it  4-5 times and see if that helps.. other wise open up the smoke unit and take a look .. your gonna have to pay anyway if it dosnt get to your liking...

 

good luck

 

heres a video i found that  i made of it when it was pretty new

 

Are you removing the stack when you add fluid like the Instructions say?  G

Yes I am not putting the fluid down the stacks.

Did you tighten the little screws for the smoke resistors on top of the smoke units?  Did you remove the PCB and check the condition of the wick in each unit?  How about unplugging the smoke units and measuring the value of the resistor for each smoke unit?

 

FWIW, you're probably going to spend a lot more sending it back than simply eliminating the possibilities and fixing it.

 

Once you eliminate poor connections, bad resistors, or burned wicks in the smoke units, you're really left with either wiring or the smoke regulator.  If you verify the wiring carefully, $42 gets you the regulator board.  You'll spend that in shipping to send it back for repair.

 

You can actually test those smoke units on your own if you have a couple of variable power supplies.  Power the fans with 3-4 volts DC and put around 5 volts AC or DC (but not any more) across the resistors.  You should get plenty of smoke from the unit.  If they all pass that test for a minute or so, you move on to the wiring, and then the regulator board.

 

Thanks john, you make it all seem simple. And exspain it very well. I saw the pcb for the smoke units on the order web page but,It says must contact lionel to order. Can this part be had by non techs?
Also their is some black painted sealent of some sort around the outside of the smoke units to prevent the smoke from leaking out. I did not want to take the units apart based on that reason. But based on your advice maybe I will try it. Thanks  again john.

Thanks john, you make it all seem simple. And exspain it very well. I saw the pcb for the smoke units on the order web page but,It says must contact lionel to order. Can this part be had by non techs?
Also their is some black painted sealent of some sort around the outside of the smoke units to prevent the smoke from leaking out. I did not want to take the units apart based on that reason. But based on your advice maybe I will try it. Thanks  again john.

Thanks john, you make it all seem simple. And exspain it very well. I saw the pcb for the smoke units on the order web page but,It says must contact lionel to order. Can this part be had by non techs?
Also their is some black painted sealent of some sort around the outside of the smoke units to prevent the smoke from leaking out. I did not want to take the units apart based on that reason. But based on your advice maybe I will try it. Thanks  again john.

I would take Patricks advice on this one and watch his video closely. I suspect many folks that puchased these were disappointed in the output.

 

These are models of  "envioronmentally friendly" diesel switchers and smoke output is low based on the prototype. I don't think Lionel ever intended to have huge plumes of smoke from these units.

 

Minimal smoke and random startup and shutdown of gensets/smoke units is all related to the prototype.

 

If your using legacy you may try "loading" the engine by sliding the train brake down some.   IMO , "if it aint broke don't fix it".

 

These are very complicated smoke units, Mike R and Jon Z have cautioned folks against opening these up.

The smoke units are not complicated at all, they are actually very simple.  I will say, the genset is one busy piece inside, and the challenge is not servicing the smoke units, but rather getting the shell off and back on.   Since he's had the shell off and back on, he's done the difficult part.

 

John, you can get the board, or a Lionel service station can get it.  It may be one of the pieces where they do an exchange, that's usually what that notation means.

 

Once you do the individual smoke unit test, you may have no reason to take them apart and disturb the sealing material. 

 

 

 

 

I have the exact engine and the way you describe it is the way it is supposed to work. 

 

 Remember this is a model of a Eco engine and it is not supposed to smoke allot. Follow Patricks advice when it comes to the smoke fluid.

 

There is nothing wrong with your engine from the description. 

Mine must be the "global warming" model.

 

John and guys I think I will make a small video of the engine tonight with my Iphone so you can see the action. Then you can tell me if it is ok or bad. Already put it back together and if its fine hate to take it apart if I dont have too. I am at work now will get the video posted tonight. Thanks guys.

It's fine if you're satisfied with the operation.

 

It sounds to me like the batting is burned in one or more of the units. Smoke output becomes very erratic once the batting gets burned around the resistor. If it were mine, I would rebuild all three with new resistors and batting. It's not hard to do and we can talk you through it. If you were able to get the shell off and put it back, then you'll be able to re-build the smoke units.

Right Don, that's why I recommend opening up the smoke units to check the condition.  Of course, if you don't want to open them, you can test them as I outlined and see if they all smoke properly.

 

Me?  I'd just pop the lid and see what's going on.

Opening them up is never as hard as getting to them......

Guys sorry for the lack of video. I ran it last night and seems I was being conservative on the smoke fluid. Maybe? I use a needle aplicator for my smoke bottle.
Initialy filled it with 20 drops. When I keeped adding more drops they started working. With ear right over the stacks can feel the air and feal the heat . They dont all three smoke at once though at full ramps of the rpms. Will play with it some more and see how it does.
You maybe right about the chard wicks. Last resort will open it back up and check the smoke units.
My engine does act like some in the various videos. But in erics video mine did not work like the way he shows his working. Maybe there is a problem. Will try it some more like I said. Then give another report.

Guys sorry for the lack of video. I ran it last night and seems I was being conservative on the smoke fluid. Maybe? I use a needle aplicator for my smoke bottle.
Initialy filled it with 20 drops. When I keeped adding more drops they started working. With ear right over the stacks can feel the air and feal the heat . They dont all three smoke at once though at full ramps of the rpms. Will play with it some more and see how it does.
You maybe right about the chard wicks. Last resort will open it back up and check the smoke units.
My engine does act like some in the various videos. But in erics video mine did not work like the way he shows his working. Maybe there is a problem. Will try it some more like I said. Then give another report.

It sounds like the batting is charred to the bottom of the resistor where they touch (Not unususal). When this happens you have to add a lot of smoke fluid to get it going and then it doesn't smoke very long before you need to add more.