Lionel Vision Line Hudson 5344-Black

I love it.  It has been on my tracks non stop since I purchased last April.  

 

The only downside is I need to get one of the marker lights fixed as it is not working.

 

I'd pass on the gun metal one and it seems alot of other have as well given that is seemingly all that is available.  I had to really search pretty hard to find my Hudson and I am glad I purchased the black.

 

John 

Yeah, it's a great engine. It was my first Vision Line engine.

I was very impressed with it when I first got it.

I probably won't be getting the grey. It doesn't look right to me. You get it if you want it and make sure you run the wheels off it. Lol!!

Mike R

i have a greyhound FEF and had a greyhound lionmaster challenger, but the grey hudson seemed "flat" to me.

 

i have the black one and it is a true winner.  whistle steam and swinging bell.  yowza!

I have that grey hudson.  It is without a doubt the best Hudson Lionel has ever made.  It runs fantastic.

 

 

Hi Brent,

This to me is one of the best engines Lionel ever made, check out this video and make sure you use good speakers or headphones. Enjoy!!!!!!!!

 

Alex

 

 

Absolutely great scale Hudson by Lionel that runs like a dream and is a blast to run. The only thing i wish is that Lionel added a battery back up for going over dead switch spots, but otherwise flawless. 

I have the black Hudson and love it.  It is a great runner, has fantastic sound, etc, etc etc.  No reason not to like it. 

 

But I would not buy the grey one, for three reasons:

1) The Hudson is a pretty small loco (it was in real life, I mean) - I'm not that big a fan of Hudsons.  I personally don't think it is that handsome of a locomotive compared to many bigger locos much more.  Most of the Pacifics, Northerns, Berkshires and the new Mohawk offered as Legacy are either as large or bigger, more impressive locos.

2) The Legacy locos cost noticeably less.  I realize you get the swinging bell, but that's the only material difference in my eyes.  Running and sound are about the same, for a lot less.

3) To me the grey does not look as good.  

Lee, I am glad you are happy with the black hudson.  If we all liked the same thing, life would be boring.  I had my choice to buy black or grey as do others.  I almost would think somewhere Lionel had a smart guy that figured that out.  FYI, the Pacific is not as large as a Hudson.

 

I am a toy train guy and grey works great for me.  I have a very large number of black steam locomotives.  Living in the land where the real NYC Hudsons roamed, I am very happy Lionel made this locomotive.

Marty I totally agree with you on this, I purchased the Lionel UP FEF in the grey color and I also Just purchased the Lionel crescent and that's in a green with reddish trim.

I like a little variety too.

 

Alex

Really?  Not here.  The photo below shows the Legacy Blue Comet, the Vision Hudson, and the Legacy Berkshire  It was taken at level height to the Hudson and perpendicular to it, so if there is any perspective angle distortion(there is)  it makes the other two look slightly smaller.   It is close -- all three are pretty small locos compared to many Legacy locos.  But while the Blue Comet seems a lot bigger than the Hudson when I eyeball them, when I measure it is actually only 1/16 to 1/8 inch longer from boiler front to back of cab than the Hudson and a tad more than that longer from boiler front to rear of the cab roof - I think the tiny tender (other than the 0-4-0 shifter its the smallest tender I had on a scale Lionel) just makes the Blue Comet look bigger by contrast. But it is the bigger loco, and is su has more "gravitas" - presence - on the track. 

 

I'm not really casting aspersions on the Hudson, but I never have liked it that much - I admit it is the iconic steam loco, but I've always viewed it as a quarter horse: I prefer Clydesdales.  

 

By the way, I love grey locos.  I've previously posted that when my Legacy N&W J, arrives, I will immediately repaint and relabel it UP grey and black - I think it will be incredibly handsome in that.  I just think the grey on the Hudson accentuates those esthetic elements it has that I don't like. BTW - I have the southern Crescent, too - its about 3/4 inch shorter than the Blue Comet, although it has a much longer tender.  I relabeled it UP, too, but painted it flat black not grey

I have the black VL Hudson, and it is a great performer and also looks good in its display case.

 

I would not purchase the gray version.

 

The good news is the gray ones are being discounted as dealers are having trouble selling them.

Lee, it is very obvious in your photo the Comet is not coupled to the tender and the Hudson is.  If you check with Lionel, the Hudson is 24 3/4 inches long.  The Blue Comet is 22 inches long.  When I had math in school, 24 3/4 was always longer than 22.  The Berk is 26 1/2 inches long.   It seems you are just measuring the locomotive body.  Usually when people refer to locomotive measurement, they are talking from the front of the pilot to the rear of the rear coupler.   This has been the norm.  On the real side, who cares.

 

I have thought about what a J would look like in other paint.  I am working a deal on a GS-4 with bad boards and want to paint that NYC grey.  I have always been a fan of repaints.  My friend Gerry Morlitz has several repaints and they are very nice.

My Vision Hudson is a superb runner, pulls well, and has fantastic sound.  Its size is and the way it sits on the track (without much stick out at either end) is ideal for a mid-size layout like mine. It fits well on my #2 loop (54" curves) -- not just runs on the track, but loosk good doing it, without much stick out, and like it fits the loop,  whereas the Blue Comet and ATSF Northern and Mallet stick out a bit too much there and look good only on the single big  loop I have, with 72" and bigger curves. I don't have many scale locos that look as good on the 54" loop - the Hudson is the king there.  

 

I run the Hudson a lot, but as I said, I won't get a grey one.  If I found a Black one at a really good price, I might buy another, but I understand they are hard to find and not discounted.

I was looking for a black Hudson at the April York. There were 2. One was for $1800 and another for $2000. I mentioned to a forum member that I was looking for the black Hudson but I wasn't paying that kind of money. He said he had 2 black Hudsons and he would sell 1 to me. He gave me a very good price and we shook hands. I mailed him a check when I got home and had my black Hudson soon. It is a great runner and I love the smoking whistle.

Jim D.

I have the Black one ..It was my first legacy and visionline engine... My only grip is the shiny gloss black paint..Great running and can pull 20 cars easy .. I like to see the postwar one pull 20 cars...

hello Lee Willis......

 

How about a side by side photo of your black LV Hudson and your 2900 class S.F. Northern ?  That may make the Hudson look even smaller.

 

the woman who loves the S.F. 5011

Tiffany

Tiffany - I will do that tonite - I'm at work now and I thought I had a picture of the two together on my personal memory stick here but I can't find it.  The Northern is a monster compared to the Hudson - it may have only two more wheels in total but wow!

 

I just posted the picture above to make the point -- and it's a point that really surpised me: the Blue Comet is big for a Pacific. What shocked me most when I unwrapped it was that the locomotive itself is almost a full inch longer than the Southern Cresent.  Given that both of those, and the Alton, were all listed on the same page and in the same picture in the Lionel catalog, I expected the Blue Comet and the Southern Crescent to be identical basic castings, just painted differently and with different attached hardware on them.  But no, the Blue Comet is a completely different casting, an longer, and a bit wider and much bigger casting - most of the added length is in the firebox area.  By my measure it is that tiny tad longer than the Hudson but really, they are both the same size.  the Southern Crescent is small (shorter, thinner, etc.) by comparison to either.   

 

 

I agree with all the good things posted about the Black Vision Line Hudson. Both George Brown's review of it and my column in Collector's Gallery gave it raves, which the engine richly deserved.

 

However, the appearance of the gray Hudson suffered because the paint was flat and the finish did not look anything like the shiny metallic, gray of the the prewar version, which had such depth to the finish. That is why they have been discounted.

 

The Lionel people said the factory could not duplicate the finish of the prewar gray Hudson which I found hard to believe, especially since I have seen the metallic  paint job on the Lionel/LCCA Lake Shore Limited tinplate set.

 

Wouldn't mind a second VL Hudson at a discount.  I wonder how much would it cost to paint a gray one black...hmmmm.

 

Ed Boyle

I believe Lionel.  I don't want to turn this into another "let's-beat-up-on-the Chinese" thread, but I'd bet dollars to donuts that the problem was the factory simply didn't go to any effort to work with Lionel on the grey and getting its sheen and tone just right, etc., in spite of Lionel's efforts. I've seen the way Chinese factories acknowledge the details of orders and then interpret them in whatever manner works for them and just stonewall once the items are shipped: "It says grey in the contract and grey it is - what's the problem?  Maybe the light is bad where you are looking at it?"

 

As to repainting a grey Hudson, I wish someone would go for it - I'd like to hear the details. I think it could be done: it was with more trepidation than I now admit that I repainted my Southern Crescent black and relabeled it UP, and that went very well.  But it won't be me who does that particular project. 

 

First, I'd worry that that grey paint isn't "normal" in some sense - it looks a bit strange to me on the one I saw . . . on my Southern Crescent, after testing on an out of the way place underneath,  I just lightly sanded in places and painted right atop the original paint. 

Second,  I have one Hudson, and while Lionel could discount them to the point I would buy another, I imagine they can sell them all for more thyan I would pay.  This is going to be a very activite "locomotive year" for me and I'll have my hands full with the Mohawk, N&WJ, and GS-2 coming soon - I've got to repaint the J, too, in UP grey and black livery, so that will be my repaint project for this year . . .

I also have the black version. I love the swinging bell and of course the whistle smoke.

 

Great Engine. I call her Old Faithful.

The Grey Hudson died on the vine (Lionel still has it in inventory) simply because at $1600, its real hard to peddle a scale model with a fantasy paint job.

Joe

Except for the rather poor detailing. But other than that...

It's probably best not to go there -  people who have them love them and ddidn't buy them for the details. 

 How about a side by side photo of your black LV Hudson and your 2900 class S.F. Northern ?  That may make the Hudson look even smaller.<<

 

How about a side by side with the A-5?

Hudson looks massive..

Joe

 

 

Joe,

 

Cute

 

Ed Boyle

Hello Lee Willis........

 

Not to mentioned that the S.F. 2900 class Northern has a extra driver more than the Hudson but also its 80 inch drivers look bigger than the Hudson's 79 inch drivers.  I think one of the early NYC Hudsons had 73 inch drivers (not sure though). My S.F. 5011 class has 74 inch drivers.  The S.F. 3460 class Hudson had 84 inch drivers and even bigger than NYC's Hudsons.  The NYC Hudson really is a small engine.

 

the woman who loves the S.F. 5011

Tiffany

Tiffany - As promised, although I had to take the shot with one above the other rather than end to end to arrange them to get a good shot. First photo below shows the Blue Comet, the Hudson, ATSF 3751, and a bonus for you: it's not 5011, but how about 5012!!?  Second phot, a range of scale locos from tiny to fairly large: my smallest 0-4-0 shifter to the Challenger at the bottom.  In both photos the back edge of the cab (not the cab roof) is lined up along a vertical plumb line (I actually used one).  All but 4012 are Lionel, it is an old MTH.  Third from the top is the Southern Crescent (repainted).  Not shown because I ran out of shelves - the fully grown Clydesdales - Yellowstone, Allegheny and Big Boy, which complete the range of scale steam size as far as I know. 

Lee - "Not that big a fan of Hudsons..."; "don't think that it is that handsome..."

 

WHAT?! Oh, anathema! Oh, for shame! The only loco more handsome than a NYC J1 Hudson is NYC J3 Hudson.

 

Well, anyway - the gray one would look really sharp (it looks sharp, anyway, of course)

if it had a light bit of weathering and a nice all-over dead-flat Dullcote finish. That "gray"

would then become weathered black.

 

Assuming that Lionel owns the K-line J1 Hudson tooling, how about the next J1 genera-

tion employing that stupendous K-line EXTERIOR tooling and use the superior Lionel

frame/motor design.

 

But, Lionel, PLEASE modify the boiler away from the dreaded K-line "U-shape"; some of

us (not me) get really torqued up about this. 

Still can't see the plus of the flat gray finish and the marketplace seems to agree with me. It is hard to find a black VL Hudson, but easy to find a gray VL Hudson....at discounts even.

 

Ed Boyle

The Blue Comet you have is not a model of the actual engine; in fact, that firebox looks WAY too long for the single-wheel trailing truck. The Lionel model may in fact be a "fantasy" engine itself; it is definitely not a scale model of the actual Blue Comet Pacific.

I think I would say the same about Lionel's "fantasy roadname" EM-1's, like the Duluth, Missabe & Iron Range one.

I understand.  I also understood we were talking about toy trains. There is no doubt that in the real world the Hudson J1 was a much more powerful loco than the Blue Comet.  Whether it was physically larger or not I don't know, but likely . . .

 

But the Legacy Blue Comet is definately not smaller than the Vision Hudson.  In fact it is very slightly larger.  Whether the Legacy Blue Comet is a fantasy loco or not, whether tender is hooked up or not (a point Marty raised) and what Lionel lists as the length in the catalog (that includes the tender) are irrelevant.  I was and am talking about the locomotive itself - if you include the tender in "size" then you could make the Hudson a bigger locomotive by putting one of the later NYC centipede tenders on it, something I understand it actually pulled in later years.   BTW, the 22" length in the catalog is incorrect for all three shown: Alton, Southern Crescent and Blue Comet, although it is a good average - with tenders hooked up properly the distance I measure from the tip of the cowcatcher to the rear wall of the tender is 21.5 for the Blue Comet and 23.0 for the Southern Crescent.  With its much larger tender the SC is longer overall, even though it is a much small loco. 

 

The Legacy Blue Comet locomotive is much larger than the Legacy Southern Crescent's, but only a tiny bit larger than the Hudson.  The photo below shows what I measured very carefully the distances from the front on the boiler to the front wall of the cab and to the rear wall of the cab - reasonable measures, I think of "size" of a toy locomotive.

 

I really am not trying to start an argument here.   My original point was that a Legacy Blue Comet at about 2/3 the price was a bargain in all ways including features and size compared to the Vision Hudson. I really am not that big a fan of Hudsons but that's my problem, and I bought the V Hudson and like it and run it a lot. But I'm glad I have both . . .

 

And again, that is a Legacy Southern Crescent at the top: Irepainted mine.

Well, I consider them 1:48 scale models myself. 224Es and and 726 Berkshires are toys.

 

The Ps-4 is probably way closer in size to the real Blue Comet.

If you go to Wikipedia and search on Blue Comet they list some basic dimensions of the Pacific including wheel base which is easy to verify. Interesting the Blue Comet exceeds the J1 in a few significant areas like tractive effort. 46,800 for the Comet and 42,300 for the J1s not counting the booster.

 

Pete

There has much discussion about the Lionel Pacifics and their length in the past here on the forum. I have the Lionel B&O Pacific from 2001. I believe it is the same boiler casting that is used on the Lionel Blue Comet. They just changed the smoke box cover and added the feedwater heater. As Steve stated, the firebox is too long. The older Lionel scale Pennsy K4 Pacifics from about 10 years ago had this same issue. The latest Legacy Lionel Pennsy K4's use the old K-line tooling, I believe, and are shorter and more accurate.  The latest Southern and Alton Pacifics are also shorter than the Blue Comet with the old casting.

Yes buy the grey one and double head them

hello Lee Willis.......

 

Thank you for the photos as it really shows how small the NYC Hudson is and on your shelf is a Hudson above of your S.F. 3751 which is clearly seen that the boiler is larger too.  Is your S.F. 5012 by chance a MTH version # 20-3056-1 ?  Your collection is impressive and does need good dusting SMILE.

 

the woman who loves the S.F.5011

Tiffany

Oh yes, Tiffany - the northern puts the Hudson in perspective (also the Pacifics, fantasy sized or not).  I have a scale MTH 2926 I could not fit into the picture which is a tad bigger but much older (early PS1).   

 

You have the MTH model # for 5012 down perfectly.  Really big, powerful, able to run long distances pulling big trains over seriously difficult terrain: everything that a steam loco should be. 

 

I almost never run my 5012, though.  It is a lovely model to look at - scale, detailed enough, although many of the details are rather cheap plastic.  The problem I have recently is that anything even a few years old sounds so lame compared to the latest Legacy and Vision locos, that it is annoying to listen to them anymore.  I've been spoiled.

 

And yes, my locos need to be dusted.  I guess some of them have not been run in a couple of years - actually.  time to get out the featherduster . . . 

hello Lee Willis.........

 

with your impressive locomotive collection,you will need to hired a real cleaning crew of 5 hotties to do heavy dusting!!!!!!!!!!!!!! but don't know if your wife will approve of that as i know i won't either.  Didn't know that the MTH #5012 had plastic details ?. 

 

the woman who loves the S.F. 5011

Tiffany