Lionel18005- 1990 Hudson - 072 Curves Only?

I run mine on 031. Better on tubular than on any solid rail however. At slow speed the flanges do rub even on the tubular rails and you may need to boost the power. When pulling a train, all the momementum keeps it rolling thru no problem. I tried mine on RealTrax and the flanges were having a real bad time on the curves - especially at the joints.

I run mine on wider curves but the 773 was redesigned from the 700E and made during the 031 years. I don't think you will have a problem running it on that curve.

I think it was made to run on 0-42 and larger, if I remember correctly. I have had a few Hudson's over the years and they all ran on 0-31. The only one's that couldn't were the Brass Dryefus, the 1995 6-18056 Hudson with the Vandy tender (Cab hits the Tender), and of course the original 1937 700e (all driver's flanged).

I have the Vision Line Hudson and it run's on 0-31 without a hitch. It is a copy of the 700e without the center drive wheel flanged. Make sure the center drive wheel is not flanged. If it is, it will only run on 0-72 and larger curves.

I hope this helps.

Mike R

Also, there are two sets of pilot wheels supplied.  Those with the larger wheels will not negotiate some of my layout curves; the smaller wheel set will.

Once installed, both the scale pilot wheels for the 1990 Hudson and the VL Hudson require 072 or larger diameter curves.

Thank you for all of the replies on the 1990 Hudson.  It is interesting that there seem to be several different (contradictory) schools of thought on this.

You can get the scale Hudson to negotiate O-42 curves with scale pilot wheels, but you will need to have the fortitude to grind away at the underside of the pilot deck to allow the swing-motion link to traverse a greater arc.

Following is link to Lionel manual for this product.    

http://www.lionel.com/media/se...ents/71-8005-250.pdf

or following is link to Lionel showing diagrams etc for engine and tender.

http://www.lionel.com/CustomerService/service-documents/index.cfm?type=supplement&doAction=search&product=18005&productNumber=

First thing you all must understand is that the 6-18005 and the 6-18012, both 1990 5340 Hudsons are NOT FULL SCALE! Lionel has NEVER made a full scale Hudson since the original 700e. WHY ? Because everything since, including the 18005 - 18012 and both NEW Visionline Hudsons 5344/5331 have blind center drivers. It has always been known that the scale pilot wheels are a confronting problem with switches, but I have never heard of an issue on a curve. I would never run these engines on a less that 042 curve. As far as what radius Lionel applies to this loco, I have searched and found nothing stated. It has no traction tires. If the traction tire was on the rear wheel I would state it would run on 042 curve. If the traction tire was on the center driver, ( and JUST WHY I MOVE IT ) , it would state it would run on 054 and better. That loco will run on a smaller radius than 072 . 054 for sure, maybe 042. Never on 031-036. If your scale pilot wheels are the cause of your problem, your running it on 042 and less radius.   148th

Per the link above posted by me, the manual states 042 curves are recomended for this engine.

I did not bother to click on your link. If that is what it says, that is the radius, HOWEVER , most likely on the small pilot wheels. If I'm not mistaken, there was an issue with Lionel as to why these locos were not built with scale pilot wheels. Lionel offered them up later when they built the "763e 5344 " , and gave you scale replacement wheels with the loco.  " Scale replacement wheels are the key words here !" That loco was cataloged as a 5390 . Complaints ensued because people thought they were getting a 5344 . Big collectors and possibly the TCA stepped in and the finalized version was a 5340.    148th

quote:

You plagiarized my post!

Not in the least. Read your post again, and then read mine.

Your post contains guesses and false accusations against "Big collectors" and the TCA.

Mine contains facts.

I don't know about the release of the scale hudson truck, #71-2800-250 having anything to do with the release of a reproduction 763. What year did that come out?

This is a most interesting and timely thread.  I appreciate all who contributed. I bought the 1-700E from the O Gauge RR Forum "Wanted" section and it is in transit.  I would like to purchase the scale front trucks mentioned above.  Anyone have a set for sale? Please feel free to write me at rrcraig7@gmail.com. Thanks. Dick

Wow. I would love to see pics of that if you have any handy!

My post contains no guesses! I said "if I'm not mistaken there was a problem with Lionel over why these locos were not built with a scale pilot wheels . " Am I mistaken? I said, "Lionel offered them up later when they built the 763e 5344, and gave you scale replacement wheels with the loco." Did they not offer them up later, and did they not also give you the scale pilot truck with the 763e ? I said, "it may run on 042. Does the manual not state that? I said "The loco was cataloged as a 5390. " Was it not? I made no false accusations about the "big collectors" complaining, as I and Boyd Mason and a few others protested the making of a 5344 J1e . I made no false claims against the TCA either ! I stated "and possibly ( POSSIBLY ) the TCA stepped in.  WHILE EACH SENTENCE YOU WROTE WAS WORDED DIFFERENTLY, THE MEANINGS WERE WHAT I ORIGINALLY WROTE ! I've seen you do this to other forumites ! I've made my point here, and the discussion of the re-write is finished .  148th

The phase "If I'm not mistaken" means you are uncertain (guess).

The phase "it may run on 042"  means you are uncertain (guess).

I need not go on.

That's enough you two

I did a little homework on the scale pilot truck for the 18005 hudson. As previously posted by one than one person the hudson originally shipped with a pilot truck having undersized wheels. This was done to allow the locomotive to negotiate 042 curves. The part number for this truck is 600-0773-065, and is called "High Rail Pilot Truck".

The explosion diagrams for the 18005 locomotive and tender were included in Service Manual Supplement #20, with a copyright date of 1992. The diagrams indicate that an alternative pilot truck with scale wheels was available. The part number for the scale truck is 601-2800-000 and is called "1-700E Scale Pilot Truck" on the explosion diagram. The instruction sheet included with the truck carries the number "71-2800-250 Rev. A"

I was unable to find any listing for these part numbers in any of the old Lionel factory parts lists I have from the early 1990's (up through 1994).

I did find the truck listed in Tm's Lionel Illustrated Price & Rarity Guide, Vol. 2 1970-1999. It is in the Accessories section, on page 153. TM indicates the following:

"12800 Scale Hudson Replacement Front Truck U92".

I obtained a few of those replacement front trucks before I had a 18005 Hudson. They came in "Surprise Boxes" that Madison Hardware (Detroit) would offer from time to time. (IMHO, some of those boxes were an absolute bargain, other times a waste of money. But overall, I did quite well with what I purchased from them)

Here are the explosion diagrams for the 1-700E hudson:

http://www.lionel.com/media/se...201-8005Complete.pdf

072 and 042 are diameters. In a previous post, the 042 was stated as a radius.

I used the pilot wheel assembly from a 773 Hudson on the 18005 for curves less than O72 diameter.

Like I said, the discussion is closed. If you were from Jersey you would have understood what I said.   Have a great day Burfle !    148th

I am still trying to figure out the "scale 763 Hudson"   that came out after the 1990 Hudson, and I have been to New Jersey many times!

There was a Semi-scale "763" hudson, #18056, cataloged in 1997. I could not find any references to one done earlier.

If there was one done earlier, with a mechanical E-unit, I'd like to know about it. I would add it to my want list. (Don't want the 18056 due to electronics)

I can't figure it out either Art. The original design from 1937 had no piping and extras. It also came with variations of 263 & 226 tenders. The 18056 engine ( not the tender ) is cosmetically a knock off of the 18005/12 , with the exception of the 5344 numbering.  The tender is a scale?, semi-scale?, interpretation of the original 263's . Problem with all this is the New York Central never ran Vanderbilt tenders on any of there steam. Glad you've been to Jersey. If you've never been to Long Beach Island or the Pine Barrens, you've missed something. Pay no mind to the show, they're all from New York. I'm interested in toy trains, not fights over toy trains !   Hope my information was helpful.  148th

I thought there may be concern as to how Lionel marketed the 18056 Hudson. While it does not have a pre/postwar e unit, it was marketed as a Remake of the 763e. Check it out.   148th

I just love a scale (semi) scale Hudson with Pulmor.

Hey Roman , Great pic. I've got the 784 and 785 also. I own 25  of these magnificent machines. Small gap with Century Club 773's  and Smithsonians . I have a dislike for SF, B&O Yellow Belly, and 28012 Red, and 28024 Blue. I will most likely not collect those. SF and B&O are not ALCO. I would love to see Lionel build a J2a, built by LIMA with a droop cab. LOL ! I wouldn't by that either. Again great pic, take care,   148th

Fine display of running a scale length , semi scale  Hudson on smaller diameter track ! I've got to be careful how I word my statements so the wolves don't attack me and change the subject here ! Notice the whistle blow, a short is being created. It is not by the operator, but by the radius.  If you run any Lionel Hudson in less than 054 diameter track, the center drivers will not engage the track. That is why Lionel produces these locos at times with rear wheel traction tires ( 031-042 ). The power from the motor in all Lionel Hudsons  is applied to the center driver. Driving the engine through the locos side rods is inappropriate also.  GET IT ! Rear traction tire, magnetraction doesn't cut it on 031 or 042. 148th

These engines look a little silly operating on these tight curves.