Lionel's "new" Southern Crescent Limited

If you have Legacy do it.

Ben,

As Larry and Dewey have stated the Ps-4 did have the roofs painted BLACK or GREEN. It would depend on what shop that locomotive was assigned too

That's not very distinctive. How about putting a "See Rock City" sign on the roof?

Ben

Ps-4 engine number five on your roster can be one of the most distinctive of all.

Road number 1380, "The Tennessean".  A streamlined,numbered and limited edition Ps-4 by Weaver. A conventional engine that has been out many years. But, a lot of room in that long, 12-wheel tender to upgrade for command control if desired.

Designed by Otto Kuhler, built by Spencer Shops.

 

 

I wish Dewey. I've only seen that engine a handful of times in my life. It always manages to slip through my fingers. If anybody out there is willing to sell, and love to strike up a deal! I wish someone made more prototypical Southern streamlined cars btw

 

Ben,

I've seen the Weaver Southern Ps-4 pop up on ebay from time to time.

I was lucky to acquire one from Dewey and get the matching passenger cars from MTH off Ebay. The beauty of it all is I have both the The Tennessean Ps-4 and the Lionel  N&W Class J #611 so I can operate the train with both roads motive power.

Finding matching passenger car will be a little bit harder.

The best set of cars that I have to go with my Lionel Southern PS-4 #1403 where the 80" cars from Golden Gate Depot which only 20 set in Southern where made.

I still need to get the Golden Gate PULLMAN Dinner ,PULLMAN sleeper a Weaver 60" Undecorated RPO car and Baggage car have them letter for SOUTHERN to complete the consist.

I recall the one on eBay from about a year ago. I did my ****edest to stay on top of it, but it slipped through my fingers. The first time I saw the model was in Ted Lannom of The Nashville Toy Museum's collection. He had some beautiful custom cars to go with the engine.

Ted Lannom, is in my opinion, the best southern railway o scale modeler. Though the Nashville Toy Museum is no longer around, you can read about his layout in the September 1992 issue of Model Railroader.

The great thing about modeling the "Tennessean" is what Sean is talking about. You can correctly pull it with the Ps-4 1380, the N&W "J" or Southern E units.

 

In the early days, shortly before the out break of WWII,when Southern first bought the E-6s and the new "Silver Cars" for the Southerner, Tennessean and Crescent; N&W did not allow diesels["dismals"] on its rails which were a part of the Tennessean's run [from Lynchburg to Bristol] over the mountains on the Washington to Memphis Route.

 

This N&W rule triggered the development of the Ps-4 Streamliner for the Washington to Lynchburg run because Southern did not want to tie up one of its new E-6s just for that short run. Then the "J" took over on N&W rails to Bristol where the E-6s took over.

 

The Streamlined Ps-4 was a big hit with the Washington press corp and much free publicity was generated when the steam powered, streamined "Silver Train" entered and exited D.C.

 

I saw the Ps-4 1380 once in nearby Reidsville, N.C. in Fall 1948 while at the Tobacco Market with my Dad and Uncle. It was pulling the Monroe[Va.] to Spencer passenger consist. There are a number of photos taken of 1380 in Reidsville which was a popular photo op on the Southern's dual mainline to D.C.

 

Although N&W did not go "dismal" until 1960, it relented on the no diesel rule for the Tennessean's route after a short while

N&W's decision probably had more to do with the lack of facilities to handle diesel breakdowns/repairs/servicing more than any implied anti-diesel bias.

 

Rusty

The Lionel car for the 1403 are a lighter shade of green. Not the PULLMAN green we're all used to seeing and the same used by the Southern for thier regular heavyweight passenger consists. I have those Lionel cars but I prefer to use the Golden Car car because of the 80" scale size and the details are somewhat better than the Lionel cars. The only down side to the Golden Gate cars are the lack of passengers but they do have interior details.

The Observation car on the Lionel set the durmhead was for the Carolina Special which would have used the Ps-4 or a Ts-1

 

Yes the Lionel Southern cars are hard to find, but not nearly as hard to find as is the limited set of 20 by GGD. I have the complete 7 car set from Lionel. I enjoy them, just wish they had more outer detail. And MTH makes some as well, but they are nothing to brag about, they're older and don't include people or anti-rattle bars. 

 

I believe Trains Limited in St. Lewis had a complete 7 car set of the Lionels a few months ago. check there. But I do recall he didn't want to break up the set. So it's all 7 or nothing.

 

I want to new Crescent cars from Lionel, only if they have issued the cars new names.

breezinup: here's a photo of the front of one of Lionel's 80' cars that came out with #1396

Yes, thank you. I'm familiar with those Crescent cars, but it's the light Pullman green heavyweights (the cars just say "Southern" on them) that were cataloged with PS-4 #1403 in 2006 that I was wondering about.

 

However, I think I'll just get a set of those new Crescent cars that are shown in the 2012 catalog. They're more colorful, certainly. I think they're supposed to be out in June. 

 

Even though the #1403 says "Southern" in large letters on its tender, without the Crescent Limited" lettering, the engine is a dead ringer for the new Legacy Crescent, except the #1403 has the green roof. I'm sure it will look fine with the Crescent cars.

I know very little about the Southern, but danged if it doesn't look like a white stripe in those photos that were posted, and not a reflection. Course one has to wonder about painting anything on the pilot white, since it won't stay that way for long.

Its obvious that it was painted that way in the photo, guys, stripes and painted pilots and all.  But to me that proves nothing.  

A

loco painted that way just would not last long in service before it looked scuffed and dirty.  I imagine it was painted just for the photo.  If nothing else, the white-painted fronts to the cylinders would not have lasted any time in road service . . . they'd be covered with grime as would the pilots. . . here they are pristine.  Publicity shoot?

 

Regardless, I've seen other photos and I imagine that at different times this loco and its brethren differed -- maybe a  lot -- as to trim and colors, etc.  But the paint here, and on the Lionel model, whether prototypical or not, is just way too much for me.  I think its a good attempt by Lionel and I think no one will ever resolve what is right because there is no right answer - there were very likely many actual different paint schemes.  

 

I have a couple of other minor projects to finish up and then I am going to repaint mine flat black.  I love the attached equipment and piping on this loco - best of all the Pacifics I've seen.  I really dislike the garish paint.  I'll post pictures not only of the result, but the steps in the repaint, for anyone interested.

Finally got mine on the rails.  So very disappointed that the beautiful Southern long bell three chime whistle is no where to be found.  What gives?  Can this be fixed? 

Lee

The cylinder covers were coated wiith babitt not painted or chromed. Shops had many engine wipers  to keep engines clean between wash jobs, many times women doing the work, especially during WWII. Cotton yarn waste was used for wiping as well as in journals.

A black and gold lettered Ps-4 will be stunning.

One thing is for sure, Southern kept their equipment looking in tip top shape. Even their yard switchers, the 0-6-0's and 0-8-0's had white stripes down the running boards. Southern was all about class. Yes there are plenty of dirty looking locos in pictures, but for the most part, Southern kept everything looking quite pristine. 

 

The bottom of the pilots were painted white from time to time on many of these engines, including the 1401, but they were not painted white all the time. I think that's been made clear by commentary above, discussing the preferences of the various shops. There are photos showing a given engine with the stripe, and other photos of the same engine showing no stripe. In some of the pictures it is indeed a reflection, and reflections make other parts of the engine look white as well that were clearly not parts that were painted.  Here are several more shots of the 1401, both showing the engine with clearly no white stripe on the pilot. One is from 1933, and one is from 1953.

 

Southern Steam #1401
Location: Charlotte, VA
Date: July 1933
Type: 4-6-2
Photographer: Unknown, photo marked "from the Collection of Harold K. Vollrath"

Southern Steam #1401
Location: Alexandria, VA
Date: July 1953
Type: 4-6-2
Photographer: Unknown, photo marked "from the Collection of Harold K. Vollrath"

 

Ben,

You are right. It seems like a dream location now but at the end of the street where I grew up, all sorts of Southern engines trundled back and forth along with a fair number of Southern Pacific locomotives. Back then, it was mostly diesel switchers but some of the bigger ones too and I will always remember the gleaming black, gold and white trim. I think that I mostly anticipated the cabooses since there was pretty much variety over the years. I loved the slogans painted on the cars, it seemed like they had a new one every year or two. Trains still run there but they don't seem to be quite as elegant but maybe that has more to do with my memories. Thanks for helping to keep the memories alive. 

I am not very good at posting the pics and videos like you guys.  Thanks for all the wonderful images from everyone.  Has anyone operated their engine yet? Where are your awesome videos?  Please let me know your thoughts on the whistle.  I feel this is very incorrect and would like some feedback from the rest of you. 

Here's a video clip of the Southern Longbell 3 chime whistle in action

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pFKWpPHe8kc

Jeff,

Unlike MTH Protosounds Lionels Railsound are all on Railsounds sounds chip.

MTH Protosound are  MP3 files loaded on to the chip so you can change the sounds of the whistle,bell, horn and other audio features. The only way you would be able to change the shound of the whistle is if Lionel produced a new railsounds chip with the Southern 3 chime Longbell. Now it they release Southern 1401 2 to 3 years from now then you might be able to get the new sound chip but it would use 1401 as the locomotive number and not 1393.

Sean,

Thanks for the reply.  This correct whistle is, for me, as important a distinction as all the others that make a Southern Ps-4 what it is.  I will continue to reach out to lionel for a possible correction.

 

Jeff

Yesterday I visited the Lil Choo Choo store after touring Spencer Shops[and buying Larry Neal's new Book on the Shops]. Primarily, I was there to check out the cosmetic restoration of Atlantic & Yadkin 2-8-0 #542, the only surviving equipment from my hometown railway. No 1/2 million $ in funds on the horizon to get it upfitted and under power. Thus it moves about courtesy of a rear coupled yard goat. It starred in the movie "Leatherheads". 

 

My first opportunity to see the new Southern Ps-4 and Mikado Legacy models which are displayed at eye level at the Choo Choo Store and are very nice and well done from the standpoint of cosmetic quality. The Mikado's Builders Plate is missing. Lil Choo Choo's price is $1,099. If that Mikado has been painted Southern workhorse black I might has pulled the weary plastic and brought it home.

 

Elementary School Kids Day at Spencer Shops yesterday, a couple hundred of them, little more than waist high to an adult. Guides loaded them on the Turntable and rode them round and round for a few minutes. Then they pulled green and imitation aluminum[light gray] Southern E-6 #6133[CNO&TP] out and turned it on the table several times for viewing. Later coupled 5 Coaches and took the herd for a 30 minute ride on and around the grounds with abundant horn tooting and bell ringing .

I was told that 1920s vehicles, woodside Cabooses and the Southern D-66 Wreck Derrick and Boom Car attracted much interest by the Kids.

 

At the Lil Choo Choo Store I bought a 11x21 color print of a 1995 Robert West painting of #1401 depicted underway with heavyweights in tow at Washington in 1941, titled "Three Times A Lady". White "toe nails" on the pilot and Yep, red cab roof. If she was southbound it would have likely been the "Peach Queen".

That's commonly refered to as artistic license. 

 

Seriously, one wonders where he got the idea for a red roof. It may indeed have been artistic license; like the new Lionel Cresent, perhaps it was put there to give more color, and or the painting, additional contrast. Whether the artist knew it was prototypical is of course unknown.

 

I've not seen any photos of 1401 in its working days that were in color, and in the b&w photos, the roof looks no different in shading than the green cab. And off course, when 1401 was delivered to the Smithsonian by the Southern, it had a green roof.

 

The 4501 Mikado was given a red roof (much more of a rust color than the red/orange used by Lionel) for it's tourist look, but whether or not that's evidence of PS-4s having red roofs on occasion I couldn't say. Perhaps some of the PS-4s were given red roofs from time to time by certain shops. If on a given day the shop had extra unused red paint, that could have been enough of a reason to use it to paint roofs.

 

Is this speculation fun, or a waste of time? The line has certainly blurred, but I think it's become more the latter!

Used a little natural light for Easter photos.

 

Interesting that all you fellows are modeling Ps-4s as they were before WWII.

 

Just before and during WWII they were all equipped with multiple-bearing crossheads, and all I see here are the original Alligators.

 

I had a scale Ps-4 built from a CLW kit; since I never saw a Ps-4 in service I numbered it 6688 from one Frank Ardrey photo; it had a set of crossheads and guides made by Bernie Gallagher.

 

I later found out that the 6688 was the roughest riding AGS Ps-4 and the first one scrapped.  But then, who cares, nowadays . . .

 

EdKing

Now I have a question about the numberboard. I thought that most Southern Locomotives sported red numberboards with Gold leaf paint and that all of the Ps-4 for the Crescent Limited has thier numberboards with the locomotive number and the Crescent Moon.

I know each shop had different taste when it came to paint and locomotive decorations.

So I thought that the Black with yellow numberboards where done in a different division and mainly on freight locomotives.

Thanks - to the people on this forum who mentioned that the Lionel SRR Ps4 would run around O31 tubular track. Besides making me want one more than ever the info gave me the idea to try my Lionel Erie K-5 USRA heavy 4-6-2 that has not been run in 8 years. It runs fine in a clockwise direction around my small layout and wow what a great whistle.

I have finally pulled the trigger and acquired a Lionel 11103 Ps-4 1403 from 2006. I will make some slight modifications like Ben did to make mine as close to the 1401 looks currently.

 

Now to find some Southern cars from 2006 (and Pullman lettered cars) for a early - mid 40s Crescent train.

i bought the Legacy Sourhern Crescent at York, its beauty drew me in like a moth to a flame. I am a neophyte to the SR. I am happy with the steamer, no problems at all, runs great. 

 

I was wondering why there is no reverse light on the tender of the Legacy Southern Crescent, is not having a reverse light on the tender prototypical, or is it an oversight by Lionel?

I do not believe that the real life Ps-4's had reverse lights. I can't explain why however. Congrats on the buy though!

I have a question concerning the Lionel 11103 Ps-4 locomotive: why did they choose to have it lead the Carolina Special? In listening to a Youtube video on the 11103, the crew talk refers to the Carolina Special, which mainly ran from Asheville to Chicago. The Ts-1 4-8-2 locomotives were the main power in later years for this train.

 

Since the 1403 was a Charlotte Division locomotive, running Atlanta to Spencer, it would never have operated the CS route. 

 

Any opinions?

You're right Larry.

Larry,any luck with a passenger consist?  You can see from my pics in above post, I've had to make and letter some of mine.

I bet you say that to all the Pacifics! 

TD,

 

I am like Captain James T. Kirk of the original Star Trek series, I am non-traditional, I like em Blue, Green, Orange, you name it!

Fascinating, Captain.  

 

I purchased this engine when it was released.  I had it in a place where I could look at it every day.  This weekend I could stand it no more.  Roof and wheel centers painted black. Bell and headlight hood painted red.  Bottom of pilot painted white. I like it even better now.