Need more photos, but first guess is International, produced after the fair. Sorry to disappoint.
Thanks for the reply. What pictures/angles/details would be helpful?
If the cab numbers are pressed into the cab sides, I would think it is a International.
I am enjoying learning about Lobaugh, please keep it coming. I would also like to know moor about International models.
I have several older reefers. How would I be able to tell if they are Lobaugh or not? What are the spotting factors? I have always assumed mine were All Nation, Athearn, or Walthers. Thanks!
Cab numbers are raised, not pressed. Same for tender. 31-ish" long.
I added a pic of the box as well.
Found this blurb here ... http://www.tcawestern.org/lobaugh.htm
Lobaugh supplied rolling stock and motive power, including one of its 4-6-6-4 Challengers for the operating 2-rail Santa Fe layout built by Minton Cronkhite and displayed at the 1939 San Francisco World's Fair held on Treasure Island (also known as the Golden Gate International Exposition).
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Most of those photos on your link were lifted off the internet without my permission. I gave permission, but only if they attributed them to me individually.
They have yet to do that - “too busy.” I am going to suggest that their text is as inaccurate as their photo captions.
Your locomotive is International. Not as valuable as Lobaugh, although better detailed.
Opinion: No way to prove that a given model was used in some historical venue. A sales person is permitted (under what is called “puffing) to claim that a locomotive was used on a World’s Fair layout, or that a used car was only driven on Sunday by a little old lady. Savvy buyers ignore those claims, but “there is a sucker born every minute.”
I just checked that site; they do give you a "shout out", but not for individual photos...
Mark in Oregon
Or possibly my grandfather heard ... "This locomotive was used in the 1939 World's Fair" but what was actually said was "A locomotive like this was used in the 1939 World's Fair." Too bad.
Do you have a link that details International? I can't seem to find any mention of them relative to this locomotive.
Thanks.
Found this too.
The "shout out" was after I complained and took the time to fix each caption under my photos. No, I am not going to sue them for copyright infringement, and yes, I think they owe me slightly more than their belated acknowledgment. I took about an hour to provide them with more accurate info and I gave them permission if they attributed the photos (properly).
Look in older Model Railroaders for International ads in the early 1950s. This particular model is orders of magnitude better than the other IMP locomotives (except the box cab body) but that still isn't saying much. I wonder if more than 50 were imported - probably closer to 25. Nobody will ever know.
Prices of older stuff have jumped lately, and Carey can probably fill you in on that. For the longest while, Lobaugh locomotives in good running condition ranged from $300-$650. A running IMP Pacific would be around $75, and these Challengers with raised lettering topped at maybe $300. But we have seen a stunning runup in the last two years, with at least one Lobaugh articulated topping the $2500 mark, and some sand cast Diesels over $400. I have way too much "stuff" and am not buying (not selling either) so I am not a particularly knowledgable source.
@BeachBoy posted:Do you have a link that details International? I can't seem to find any mention of them relative to this locomotive.
I recall going to International Model Products in lower Manhattan in about 1953 or so. They did not have a showroom but welcomed my grandfather and me in to their business. They had a lot of HO and some O gauge models that were being assembled.
International was importing some of the same HO models as Tenshodo, but the Tenshodo models ran better.
I had an International HO model of the Union Pacific challenger that did not run very well. I still have an International catalog somewhere. They imported a lot of models.
Hello yes it looks like an international advertise 1952 original price about $200 not the same quality as a Lobaugh
Cheers Carey
@GG1 4877 posted:I have several older reefers. How would I be able to tell if they are Lobaugh or not? What are the spotting factors? I have always assumed mine were All Nation, Athearn, or Walthers. Thanks!
The quickie way to find a Lobaugh car is to flip it over and check the underframe. These top two cars are stock Lobaugh PFE reefers and you can see both the underframe and the trucks. Note the underframe ends where the couplers mount. Unfortunately many times people will clip those beautiful ends off to mount Kadee's. Bottom car is something like an All Nation or other style wood reefer kit. The screw mounted bolsters are All Nation style but they are still available buy current mfrs as well I think. BTW that Lobaugh frame is all brass and soldered together. Aside from that, the metal sided cars are slightly different from say and Athearn or All Nation car especially if you set them side by side.
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These Lobaugh cars were discussed in detail in the OST #90 Mar/Apr 2017 "O Scale Archeology" column; another tell at least specifically that the car is Lobaugh is that some were actually labelled Lobaugh in tiny print in the lower corner of the car side, though both other Lobaugh examples and the successor manufacturer for these cars Faber did not have this label.
They are really good models in my opinion and can be had for cheap if the buyer recognizes their characteristics and the seller doesn't, which is often the case these days.
@Dennis Holler posted:
The quickie way to find a Lobaugh car is to flip it over and check the underframe. These top two cars are stock Lobaugh PFE reefers and you can see both the underframe and the trucks. Note the underframe ends where the couplers mount. Unfortunately many times people will clip those beautiful ends off to mount Kadee's. Bottom car is something like an All Nation or other style wood reefer kit. The screw mounted bolsters are All Nation style but they are still available buy current mfrs as well I think. BTW that Lobaugh frame is all brass and soldered together. Aside from that, the metal sided cars are slightly different from say and Athearn or All Nation car especially if you set them side by side.
I must have 6 -7 that need restoration ( Hopefully this winter yet )
Just a small correction. Faber predated Lobaugh with these cars and supplied parts/kits to Lobaugh prior to WW2.
Wow, I've learned something or figured something out... Kind of triggered by a post about a Lobaugh Katy auto box car with hand lettering. That post got me curious and I started looking through my Lobaugh or what I thought were Lobaugh cars... Is this what Bob calls Menusha
I recently got a couple of flat cars that I thought were Lobaugh, but hey, look at the right end, and you see Faber printed there so these must actually be Faber cars. Keep in mind as I understand it, Merl Faber was the source for the Lobaugh stamped components... So these have the typical Lobaugh style underframe and construction, they are just stamped FABER. Really interesting. I don't see either of these road names in my 1941 or 42 catalogs...
Now, here it gets real interesting. The first two "Lobaugh" cars I got were a couple of Yellow R40-10 PFE reefers. A couple of years ago I got a few more cars. The Faber thing got me curous and so looking more closely, I see the Yellow cars are marked Faber and the darker Orange-ish car and the ART are marked Lobaugh SF. Maybe the Faber cars were a different color thant he Lobaugh cars might make sense.
You can see the color difference very clearly here. Also note the pin holes are in different locations and there are more on the Lobaugh version. Also note the difference in shield size and frankly the lettering is actually different between the cars. Note the hand grabs are in different locations because the sides were punched differently. And finally, it's hard to see but the bottom side skirt is cut differently on both cars.
Here the Lobaugh R40-10
And the Faber
Also found this neat, the Faber car is on top and note the Ice hatches are very different from the Lobaugh on the bottom. All my Faber cars have these same style hatches.
Same for the ends, Lobaugh on left and Faber on right. Pretty different stampings.
Here is my Lobaugh ART car, also with Lobaugh SF in the corner. One other thing I noticed is the two little black triangles outside of the lower hinge set, those are not found on the Faber version.
Last thing is my Faber cars came with these Lobaugh like trucks but the sideframes were cast in zinc alloy or white metal unlike the standard bronze Lobaugh sideframes. I am speculating the Faber cars used a cheaper casting for the sideframe than the lobaugh bronze ones... Probably same dies and same source...
This was an interesting learning experience spurred thanks to Jim's posting on another forum.
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Neat collection of cars ..Faber worked for Lobaugh ..till 39ish...then went out on his own ...later selling out to Athearn...
Cheers Carey
