Dick,

I know some of the 2-rail gurus know.

How can i resist?  What would you like to know?  Roughly 1937-1955, originally producing O Scale only when the screw and bolt business slowed down, so he wouldn't have to lay off good people.  Mostly steam, but some freight cars.

Here is my favorite from the 1937 roster:

Bob2, that's a beautiful 2-8-2, would love to have one.

Ron

They were in business from the early 1930s. They sold parts and car kits in O scale and 7/16" scale (for 2-1/8" Standard Gauge track).

Here is an ad from May 1934:

And from February 1935:

And from the cover of their 1934-35 catalog:

I think that catalog was 40 pages...

Hope this helps with some of the history.

ARNO

Lobaugh stuff regularly shows up on ebay. The boxcars and reefers resemble the old Athearn stuff but Lobaugh made his own parts so they are a bit different, the boxcar roofs are two piece and the frames include draft gear for instance. I had quite a few Lobaugh runner cars when I was working in O scale, they were sturdy and felt authentic since they were actually built in the era I was modeling.They don't have the exaggerated detail of new Atlas or Lionel cars but their thin metal construction makes them seem more realistic......DaveB  

Not totally sure, but I believe locomotived before 1937 were produced by others.  The Mikado, an SP Mountain, and the 17/64 SP switcher appeared in 1937.  Woody Mathews can help with pre- 1937 history.

So did they make you move this out of the 3-rail section?  Too bad, because we were just about to introduce those folks to some obscure O Scale history, some of it 3-rail.

You probably already know this but I am a serious Lobaugh collector.  I have every single model they produced except the Rock Island Mikado, the Suburban Tank, and possibly a ten-wheeler I know nothing about.  We are pretty sure the 1941 GS-3 never got off the drawing boards, but I built my own just in case.

I enjoyed the story of when Lobaugh paid a visit to keyrouttaken's(Ken Shattock) grandfather's layout (Victor Shattock)in his basement.

His father machined all of the parts for all of his live steam engines and cars and ran them in the basement of their home.

They were both extraordinary model builders.

Bob,

You will be interested to know that I am currently reworking the drive of a Lobaugh SP Cab Forward that was handed to me at the Strasburg O meet a couple of weeks ago.  This model has been through a lot of bad handling and poor "repairs" over the years.

I am machining some new parts for it.  The model has a Bueller can motor that was held in the model with a piece of twisted music wire! I fabricated a brass motor mount yesterday and the motor is now properly attached to the frame.  There is a lot more to be done but I think I can get this loco up and running shortly.

The owner also has what looks to be a another almost complete cab forward kit un-assembled.  He want me to assemble the mechanism for him.   To see two of these rare models at one time was quite an experience.  I don't believe these models were ever cataloged.  The owner handed me a set of Lobaugh Cab Forward drawings dated October and November 1941.  This probably explains why there were very few produced.

For myself, I am currently building a Lobaugh USRA Pacific with some modifications.  Instead of using the 16 spoke Lobaugh drivers, I have machined a set of 17 spoke drivers from very nice brass sand castings that were in my stash of driver castings.

Joe Foehrkolb

Bob was the Suburban tank the CNJ or NYC one? Kit or  partially RTR (I know little about Lobaugh so forgive the kit/RTR question)

Several years ago there was a CNJ 4-6-4t kit on ebay that I should have bought and had assembled.

 "I am a serious Lobaugh collector.  I have every single model they produced except the Rock Island Mikado, the Suburban Tank, and possibly a ten-wheeler"

  Did Lobaugh ever make an outside braced auto car? I had this model years ago, it had a Lobaugh underframe but I don't know if it was a kit or scratch built. ...DaveB   

Yes.  See page 25 of the 1940 catalog.  The 1940 catalog is the most important, and the 1941 supplement shows the Gs and Cab Forward.

The Suburban Tank used parts from the 4-4-0 and Cab Forward, and had no prototype.  It may have used the Pacific frame, with smallr drivers.  Designed to use up leftover parts in the 1950s.  That is all opinion.

On the Cab Forward - I have two, and have seen maybe four others.  I have the only original Lobaugh tender I have ever seen, plus an extra underframe.  Jan Lorenzen and I felt that there might be a dozen or so Lobaugh Cab Forwards in existence.  The drawings are dated December 7, 1941, and you can bet all production stopped the day afer that.

 While I doubt Joe's model is one I had anything to do with, I usually attach motors with either aircraft safety wire or hose clamps.  That way I can completely embed them in rubber sheets if I want.

Let me ask again - why did this thread get moved here - to keep the 3-rail scalers from new stuff?  Most of you have seen all my photos, so I am less motivated to bore you with them again.

Well I think this is always a good subject,any one for Scalecraft,Mini-I-Scale ETC       cTr....(Choose the Right)

Absolutely.  I am always interested in the history of the hobby and O Scale in particular.

Let me ask again - why did this thread get moved here - to keep the 3-rail scalers from new stuff?  Most of you have seen all my photos, so I am less motivated to bore you with them again.

Bob,

Not sure, but I'm guessing maybe because of my post and someone not knowing Lobaugh made 3-rail engines.

Bob/Joe...do ya'll have any videos showing how you make spoked drivers?  I saw one Youtube video of someone making drivers on a CNC machine, pretty cool stuff but I couldn't tell what scale it was (bigger than O I think).

3D printed masters would be the norm these days I would think, do cast wheels perform as well as machined wheels?

While I have a mini-lathe I don't have a mini-mill, of course I could probably get one if I stopped buying trains for a month!

Bob,  What size drivers do you need?  There are sources available to supply a pretty good selection of wheel centers, unless you want to be able to say "I made them myself".

Bob Delbridge.

I have never had to make a spoked driver center.  There are plenty of rough driver castings out there to work with.  Stevenson Preservation Lines currently offers quite a few castings and PSC also has a few.  At large O meets like Chicago, you can usually find cast iron and brass driver center castings that are years old and have never been machined or that have been poorly machined and can be reworked.  You just have to keep an eye out for them.   I have machined many rough driver castings and that is a bit more work than converting  3 rail drivers that already have crankpins to 2 rail.

It is always nice to see a finished driver machined from a rough casting in the shop.

I believe there is a bucket load or two of driver castings lying around waiting to be machined.  Keep your eyes open.  If you need a certain size for a project, let me know, I may have them here.  I just found three sets ( 3 Axles per set) of cast iron machined drivers with 17 spokes that measure out to about 79" and  half are insulated for 2 rail. I think they are bored for 3/16" axles.  I would part with two sets of them.

Joe Foehrkolb

Bob2,

From your description of your motor mounting method this model may have passed through your shop.  The motor was attached witha piece of steel wire throug a small hole drilled in the bronze frame of the loco and tires across the top of the motor with a series of twists.  Under the motor there was a piece of rubber material that looked like carpet padding.  The motor has a brass pulley on its shaft with two grooves that held spring wire belts.  The worm gear shaft had a piece of rubber hose on it that the spring belts ran on.  Oddly the pulley on the motor was not fastened to the motor shaft and could hunt on the shaft as the motor ran.  I fabricated a brass motor mount from 1/16" brass plate, drilled and tapped the shoulder of the motor pulley for a 6/32 set screw and machined a 3/8" diameter worm shaft pulley with grooves to hold the spring belt below the motor shaft pulley.

The rear frame was milled so that the rear gearbox assembly could sit with its shaft horizontal and is now coupled to the front driver mechanism with a combination brass sleeve and section of Toyota hose per your recommendations.  Initial testin of the mechanism indicates that the model runs smoothly of a somewhat of a slow top speed.  I may expriment with making a somewhat larger diameter motor pulley to increase the models to speed.

Lots of fun and something different from routine 3 rail to 2 rail conversions.

Joe Foehrkolb

"Initial testing of the mechanism indicates that the model runs smoothly of a somewhat of a slow top speed."

  That was probably by design, I can't recall seeing a Malley running very fast. They were used mostly on the runs that required power to get heavy trains up steep grades. Crawling up Donner or Tehachapi would be more typical than running at high speed ......DaveB

As already stated, the lines between two rail and three rail are blurred, and I am interested in both.  Converting three rail to two rail gives me no ulcers, for I am quick

to adapt any two rail item to fill the large gaps in three rail.  I am interested in 2 rail

history also, and also have some of the old catalogs, including Lobaugh.  I don't think

it was Lobaugh that did that C&O Mikado prior to WWII, or was it?  My favorite standard guage steam loco, and it has nothing to do with what I model.

A few years ago there where a couple of large bines of O scale driver castings on ebay, they where listed a couple of times before they sold, they would have wieghed a ton, one would have to hope they didnt go for scrap. They looked like Lobaugh to me!          cTr....(Choose the Right)

No - Alexander.

Joe - the only Cab Forward I ever powered for another person did not have those spring belts, and did not have the rear engine powered at all.  I of course published a lot, and my safety wire mounts have probably been copied.

I use Toyota hose for motor to front gearbox, then a sliding arrangement of speedomeer cable and K& S tubing for the connection to the rear.  The slip- joint makes for smoother transmission and makes disassembly trivial.  Plus, the front cylinders do not have to have a goant tunnel milled in them.

Gerry White used the spring belt/ pulley setup almost exclusively.  It worked for him, but not for me.  I use Delrin chain, or when i can figure it out, tooth belts.  I never use drop-downs in steamers, except for one articulated with two motors,

And Stephen - chances are they (the driver castings) were hardened.  We started annealing cast iron driver blanks, then discovered that no matter what we did, we were losing money with each driver we machined.

A hard piece of cast iron is almost impossible to machine with small shop lathes.  A soft piece of Meehanite cuts like hot butter.

Bob2,

I just finished reworking a set of Scalecraft cast iron  K-4 drivers for another modeler who is rebuilding one of these models and wanted the drivers insulated for 2 rail operation.  Those pre-war castings cut like hot butter but I have had some iron castings that were difficult to machine so I know what you are saying.  It seems like some castings have hard spots in them that the hi speed steel cutters bounce off of.  I have some success getting through these using carbide tipped cutting tools.  I have never tried to anneal these casting but it might be worth a try.  Several years ago I had about 20 sets of 62" drivers cast from plastic patterns made in original Lobaugh molds.  An Amish foundry near Lancaster PA did the castings for me.  I have machined several sets of these and they were OK to machine.

Speaking again of hard spots in castings, I have machined several sets of  Williams sintered iron GG-1 drivers for various conversions.  These casting have hard spots in their outer perimeter that refuse to machine.  I have used a bench grinder to cut away the outer edges of the flanges on the 3 rail driver castings and then the hi-speed steel can machine the castings with ease.

Regarding the Cab Forward mechanism, the spring belts tend to slip sometimes but not always.  I am going to machine a larger motor shaft pulley to see if stretching the belts a bit eliminates this problem.  I have been thinking about installing computer toothed belt pulleys and a belt like Sunset uses on their steam locos.  McMaster Carr is a good source for these drive components.

Joe Foehrkolb

I believe there is a bucket load or two of driver castings lying around waiting to be machined.  Keep your eyes open.  If you need a certain size for a project, let me know, I may have them here.  I just found three sets ( 3 Axles per set) of cast iron machined drivers with 17 spokes that measure out to about 79" and  half are insulated for 2 rail. I think they are bored for 3/16" axles.  I would part with two sets of them.

Thanks Joe, no projects on the table at this time (maybe a Seaboard 4-8-2 down the road), but I will keep you in mind.

Joe,

some years back I reviewed young Jan Lorenzen's inventory of his father's materials. He had cases full of cast driver centers. If I recall some of that inventory wound up with Stevenson and another whom I cannot recall.

young Jan lives in the NYC area and does frequent this forum from time to time.

Chris,

I am not actively looking for driver castings at this time.  When I go to an O meet if I see some castings that look good or unusual and are selling for a fair price, I probably will purchase them for my stockpile.  I purchased a fair amount from Al Small a few years ago that Al said were his fathers and I have hardly touched them.  The Lobaugh Pacific that I am working on for myself now has drivers made from sand cast 17 spoke brass centers that I found in a box behind my bench grinder.  I don't know when or where I got them but they look good on the mechanism.  

It is amazing the amount of O scale parts that were produced by foundrys years ago for various manufacturers of O scale locomotive kits.  I think the manufacturers of O scale steam kits overestimated the demand for un-machined driver castings.  There seems to be more castings than there are people who can or will take the time to machine them into usable drivers.  And, how many modelers are scratchbuilding O scale steam locos today?  Even in the heyday of O scale model construction, most builders would have purchased machined drivers.

Joe Foehrkolb

Regarding the Lobaugh cab forward, I machined a 5/8" diameter motor shaft pulley this morning to replace the 1/2" diameter puly that came on the model.  This increased the top speed of the mechanism a little but also tightened the fit ff the spring belts.

The mechanism is up on blocks and turns over smoothly.  In doing this I found that the main (geared) driver set on the rear engine had a loose driver on one side of its axle.  So the mechanism was again disassembled and the driver axle refit to its axle and Loctited in quarter (left lead) with 609 Retaining Compound.

Working on a model produced over 70 years ago that may have been through many owners can present a challenge.  One thing after another can show up that needs fixing.

Joe Foehrkolb

Photos, Joe?

I think you guys are correct - I have a stockpile of machinable driver castings.  I sent the leftover hard ones to Lorenzen with the caveat that he had to anneal them.  The propice was right - zero.  Back then one could ship without selling one's children.

Lobaugh locomotives were sold either assembled, machined, or rough.  Some of the rough kits got assembled without sprung drivers.

a friend here in Jacksonville area has lots (read boxes full) of sandcast drivers of different sizes

When you guys say "machinable driver castings", what exactly has to be machined, just the OD, plus hole for the crank pin or is there more to it other than polishing some surfaces?

Bob,

If you are using cast iron driver centers, the final tire profile and flange can be machined directly into the driver casting on the un-insulated side drivers.  Depending on how the drivers were cast, you may also want to machine off some material from the crankpin bosses and faces of the counterweights.

With brass driver castings you can certainly do the same thing but I do not like the look of brass tires so when using brass centers, I machine steel tires for both insulated and un-insulated drivers.  I use carbon steel for my tires purchased as heavy wall seamless steel tube purchased from a firm called Metal Supermarket.

Bob2,

I can take photos with my new digital camera but darn if I can figure out how to upload them to a file.  The camera's manual is several hundred pages long written in computerize.

Joe

Thanks Joe, I'll look them up.

The SAL class M-2 Mountain had 72" drivers, their M and M-1 had 69".  I looked at Bob Stevenson's site and didn't see any that fit the bill as far as looking like the same type (he did have some 72").

Thanks for the info on the steel tires, I knew you used some sort of steel and was going to ask, you beat me to it!

I miss the days of being a draftsman at a machine shop, if for nothing else I had access to all the machines and scrap metal.  Drawing and building things for NASA Langley was really something back in the early 70s.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/O-SCAL...?hash=item2ee5078ab9

Dan's wants $ 300.00 for a Cab Forward with lots of dings, an unknown manufacturer and something that does NOT run !!  Are you kidding me ?  What kind of sauce has he been tasting ?

KRK

It's a Lobaugh.  That's why I posted it.  I've seen worse go for a lot more.

Jay

Definitely a Lobaugh, and proving that at least one other tender was produced at the Lobaugh factory.  Due to its rarity, should briing in a grand.  I would bid if I did not already have two.