Lost the fun...need a remedy???

You don't need to build a "perfect" layout. All you need to do is build something that makes you happy. It's your railroad in your own little world, so just build something you like. It doesn't have to be "perfect."

With a 12-foot x 21-foot space, you've got plenty of room to build something very nice. Give some thought to building the layout around the room as opposed to on a table in the middle of the room.

Can you show us the a drawing of the layout of the room itself? It would help to see where doorways are and if there are any other obstructions that you would need to work around. I'm sure that there are people here who can help you with a track plan.

Thank you Richard .  The perfectionism is a curse.

My friend Elliot went through the same thing with Narrow gauge  He took down his beautiful Munoz Lines layout to create a narrow gauge one  He is now recreating another 3 rail scale layout

Put down some track and run trains. People tend to get hung up on the buildout and forget about running the trains. When I started the Tinplate layout at the Roanoke Valley Model Railroad Club; I set-up one rule. Every day before we leave we must run at least one train. if that means stopping early so be it.  Always leave your layout on a high note.

Scott Smith

John, I believe you just need to start and see what happens, you might be surprised.

Would love to have ideas ...I want to enjoy this again

Sell some of your engines, use the money to buy something you always wanted, then just glue down some roadbed, tac down some track.  Give yourself a goal of making some small amount of progress each week... even if the progress is just running a train for 10 minutes.  Just do something!

Rich Melvin posted:

You don't need to build a "perfect" layout. All you need to do is build something that makes you happy. It's your railroad in your own little world, so just build something you like. It doesn't have to be "perfect."

With a 12-foot x 21-foot space, you've got plenty of room to build something very nice. Give some thought to building the layout around the room as opposed to on a table in the middle of the room.

Can you show us the a drawing of the layout of the room itself? It would help to see where doorways are and if there are any other obstructions that you would need to work around. I'm sure that there are people here who can help you with a track plan.

I agree with Rich. Simplicity keeps the mind clear of problems. An oval can just be the thing.

johnshorse posted:

...I have a large 3 rail scale collection. ...My conflicts...I enjoy three rail scale, I enjoy toy train fun,I enjoy narrow gauge,  I sometimes enjoy detailed scale buildings and now I have bought a truckload of On30 track and trains.  So I am frozen and stressed from the inability to "decide" what is the perfect layout. ...Love to build a mixed 3 rail and ON30 layout but cannot figure how to make it all fit.  ...I will need to move in the near future to keep some peace of mind.  So...I cannot commit to an extensive layout just to tear it down.

Rich Melvin posted:

You don't need to build a "perfect" layout. All you need to do is build something that makes you happy. It's your railroad in your own little world, so just build something you like. It doesn't have to be "perfect."

sidehack posted:

John, I believe you just need to start and see what happens, you might be surprised.

John, IMHO I think what Rich and Ray (sidehack) suggested is important to see if you can find your way to enjoy a model railroad layout.  You mention that you've been "collecting and tinkering for 25 years."  

1. If your goal is to have an operating layout that you enjoy, do you enjoy the planning and/or building process?  If the answer is "no" then as you requested you did right to ask for help.  Planning and or building help is available either via free forum input or by paid layout builders.   You can possibly combine O-30 and O-scale with proper placement.  Maybe a O-30 simulated narrow gauge lumber/mining operation?  The concern that you may move in a few years and don't want to create and then tear down an elaborate layout can be mitigated by the fact that you have Mianne benchwork which may give your layout a "modular" component, in that the Mianne sections can be more readily disassembled, transported, then re-assembled; especially if you integrate that "modular" aspect in both your underside wiring organization and your topside scenery details/placements.  If going solo on the plan/build, I would not suggest to put all your eggs in one layout by jamming everything you have and want onto your first layout attempt; you'll likely get frustrated again. 
2. Sometimes running trains during the build process is a nice diversion as Scott said, but it can also become the excuse not to progress.  Finding what you enjoy doing is important and likely the key.  Just like with our kids, we can't force the hobby onto them, but hopefully we provide exposure to its many facets in the hope they at best, acquire our similar enjoyment or at worst, just recognize, understand and appreciate those same many facets. 

Hopefully you'll find your path and enjoy the journey.  Good luck and keep us posted w/ updates.

I’m going through a somewhat similar situation right now. I just tore down my layout and expanded the benchwork. For months I’ve been getting great deals on accessories and working on handcrafted details whether with paints, styrene, creating structures, etc.. I had a nice track plan...

I put 50% of the grass mat down and then got giddy and made my mainline outer loop of track with a spur and started some wiring.(first mistake) Then I added some accessories that I bought over the last few months but hadn’t opened(was like a kid in a candy shop) that were all boxed up. Now I can’t figure out what kind of track plan I want and what the focus will be or how to achieve it. And I keep second guessing certain things regarding whether or not I want to integrate them into the AIU in my DCS System or have them separately powered. A lot of second guessing every step of the way.

that said, @Rich Melvin the first paragraph of your post put me at ease. That’s the mindset I must keep

I have no talent in creating buildings and scenery. But I like running trains. Been playing for two years now, I think I rearranged stuff every two weeks. To some this is maddening but for me it’s fun. I go from a simple oval, to a trioval, to a return loop to return loop and back again. I even tried to run a loop around my pool. I constantly spray paint the very bad things I try to create. My creations make me laugh, when I compare to what others do. For me this is fun and entertaining.  A cold beer and noisy fast track gives me a “simplicity that keeps my mind clear”. 

The balance between perfection and fun is my opinion different than fun and perfection.  I choose fun, and if I do it right it’s perfect for me.

Another way to get motivated is to invite a friend over to help you build the layout.  Nearly all successful layout builders have a friend or friends help them with the construction.  I find that the best aspect of the hobby is the friends that you make.   I would guess that there are several people in your modular group who would be delighted to help you build your  layout.

I am in a Tuesday evening group that meets at different homes to help people build their layouts.  It doesn't hurt that nearly every construction session ends or begins with pizza and beer.  

NH Joe

If you are planning to move, don't do any scenery that is permanent. Put something temporary on top of your foam and lay track down. Maybe try grass mat or just put some fabric over it. Don't fasten all the track down; let it float. That way you can move the track around as you please. Don't try to get your scenery right. Just experiment with the layout, combining your two scales. Put some of your buildings on the layout. Work on certain scenes. When you eventually move, you will feel more comfortable creating the more permanent features of the layout without the stress of your environment.

My two cents.

George

I started about five years ago in my basement, moved a gas water heater and water filtration system to the other side of a block wall, wired outlets, installed wall board, a suspended ceiling, and then worked up an around the walls  track plan.  Installed masonite for a backdrop, and then got stuck. Could not make myself start the benchwork, finally hired some carpenter friends to build the benchwork. They did pretty good-- but some over kill that was unnecessary. Then I got obsessed with how the joints in the masonite looked, so I have been using fiberglass reinforcing tape and working my way around making those look acceptable. 

I originally had two interconnected levels of three rail "O"-- but then someone mentioned a layout with On30 on the upper level-- and that really sounded good to me as I like both, so that is where I "think" I am headed now. 

I remember reading a LONG time ago how important it was to get SOME trains running as soon as possible to ward off losing interest.  I am over five years in-- and no track yet. I read articles and look at photos of magnificently constructed and landscaped layouts-- and this has somewhat of a paralyzing affect on me. I want to do everything to the best of my ability-- my saying is "you do it once and look at it from now on"-- but-- during WWII I think the phrase was coined-- "Great is the enemy of the Good". 

I am trying to tone down my perfectionism, and just relax and have fun. I too have amassed a pile of stuff -- rolling stock, buildings, landscape materials-- all sitting in a pile in the attic. 

I'm 62, still working, and want to make progress on the layout. 

The mind is where the battle is.

It depends on what activities you find pleasurable. I cannot answer for you but can give examples from my experience. I am a life-long Railfan so I do indeed enjoy watching [miniature] trains in motion......to a point, but I need more.

From experience I have learned that I enjoy prototypical-ish operation wherein my model trains move goods and people and switching operations set-out and pick-up cars at/from real-ish industries.

I run High Rail using close-to-scale engines&rolling stock on Fastrack (quick to set up and to tweak as I learn). This track and equipment is close enough to scale to create in my mind a suspension of disbelief and I see an actual railroad in miniature. My imagination is more easily fooled than is the case for many people.  

Scenery including buildings is pretty much schematic, both because I am impatient to get things going and because my skills/patience/physical capabilities (arthritis) are somewhat circumscribed.

Within this evolving framework I do have fun. The PER is a simple loop around-the-walls with an Interchange track (in the next room) and two Industrial (switching) areas. A couple pics.

The East End:

The West End:

As can be seen this is the extreme of not letting perfection be the enemy of the good.  As I said, schematic, sort of like bread-boarding electronic circuits. As I learn what gives me pleasure/esthetic satisfaction the thing evolves. There have been at least dozen track-plan tweaks (enabled by Fastrack) on this small simple Pike. Maybe someday I'll get to scenery.

My point is this: we are all different and only you can know what you want but the advice I would give is to just do something. Move forward with some project and learn whether it works for you. I might suggest some kind of quick-to-lay track so you can see something happening and work with it rather than being lost in the weeds of constructing carefully ballasted and highly realistic trackwork. If that is or becomes important to you there is time later for that.

IIRC and to paraphrase Tom Selleck's NY Police Commissioner character, Frank Reagan in CBS's Blue Bloods advice to his youngest TV show son Jaime,

"If you want (or wait) to make the perfect decision, you end up making no decision."

Well, FWIW, been there, done that.
In my early career, the hours were long and the stress was high. I managed (HO, back then) an oval of track on a a 4x6 piece of plywood; came home ran a train for a bit, playing railfan. Felt better. Designed all sorts of unbuildable model railroads (went to sleep at night imaging such; John Armstrong was my god).
Anyway, put down a loop of track using sectional track. Run some trains. Put down a building or two or more (buildings are scenery, too). Put down another loop using, say, PECO sectional for your On30.  Imagine a standard-to-narrow gauge interchange.
Perhaps a bit of inspiration strikes, so cut in a switch or two to give yourself a fiddle yard.
Who knows where this will lead? In my {former} life, this was called "build a little, test a little, etc."

As has been said above, you need to be able to run some trains.  I'll go down there and just sit with them running and ponder what I want to do or what scenery might look good.  If you wait till you have a 100% plan, you may never start, it's just the way it is. I've had my layout up for 15 years almost and it's no where near finished but I was able to run trains from the first couple of weeks after the bench work was up.  If your unsure about how to move forward, it is best to not complete formal scenery just yet.  You could even lay down some narrow gauge track with the standard O track and run both and if you think about it, there is prototype reality to doing so, but again, get some trains running and have a relaxation and fun.  

Yeah, have been there. I think it's the model railroaders version of writers' block.

Good advice already but here's what I would do. You've got a large Mianne frame to work with but don't go big. That's the great thing with Mianne. Can you break it down into something smaller? Even a simple 5x9 or maybe a little bigger. Just get some track down and run your favorite trains. Soak it in, relax, and enjoy the experience.

Given that you might be moving again this might be the best way to go.

Simplify.

Hello John, when my wife and I moved into the condo, which we planned would be our last move, I found a spot in the semi-finished basement that would comfortably contain a 24' by 8' model railroad. I ordered the Mianne layout after I determined what the railroad would look like from an Athas0 track plan that I had modified to give me a double main line and a relatively small number of sidings or spurs. My local hobby shop ordered the Gargraves trackage and Ross Custom Switches for me and I had trains running within a few months. I had not finished the wiring because my attempt of a control panel for the switches was not a success.

I knew that I had no expertise in doing scenery so I contacted the closest man who advertised his layout design capability and he spent about 10 days over about 2 years to do the stuff that I was ignorant of and offer suggestions of changes that were relatively minor but would add to the overall look of the layout and its parts.

Is it finished? No, but I am capable of making the additions that I am envisioning and I have plenty of time.

If you can't decide what type of layout to have, you have enough room to have it all..

Make a detailed town scene, then a mountain or big building on either end, then a toy train scene like tinplate or post war, then another mountain/scenic break.  Make an area where your On3 meets the O gauge.  all the the trains going around in circles are through freights.

this way you don't have to decide, just make whatever scenes you like.  Scale passenger train rolling through tinplate village - sure, MPC era circus train cruising thru a scale neighborhood - Why not? - just passing thru!!

I think just getting any tracks down and moving will help.  Stage your meticulously made structures here and there to decide on scenic choices.  Not making a choice on a specific style is a solid option.  Scenic breaks should make it easier. 

Just start by getting track down in one loop for starters. Perhaps some long S curves to break up the symmetry. 
  Do your planning on the bench work and see what happens when you have a train running around and let your imagination loose.

 Main thing is to get a train running and go from there and hopefully creativity will kick in

 Be safe and enjoy your trains!

Al

Kind of in the same boat here - too many divergent train interests, so I enjoy reading the different perspectives and suggestions.  Although it really does boil down to doing what makes YOU happy, I understand that that's such a vague platitude that it isn't always helpful.

Perhaps finding another group of enablers (friends) is in order.  Is there an O-gauge modular group in your area?  (Unfortunately, for those of us who are still working, finding the time for multiple groups can be difficult.)

While I get the idea of getting something running as quickly as possible, it can be a trap.  I've done that, and now the unsatisfying "temporary" track has been around for several years, and I'm hesitant to tear it up.

Can you build a layout on the existing benchwork so that it can be disassembled and moved?

If you long for some scenery but are afraid to build something that will need to be torn up in a couple of years, here's a suggestion - Find a location where a hill would look nice.  Cut a piece of foam that fits the footprint.  Build up to the desired height with more foam, then sculpt to the desired shape, paint, and cover with scenery materials.  When finished, set it in place but don't glue it down.  When you move, pick it up and keep it for the next layout.  Down the road, it can be made smaller or integrated into a larger scene as desired. 

Just put down some track and run some trains. The layout will grow by itself. Stop with the planning. Life is too short. Have some fun, and that means running some trains. I've followed this philosophy since 1998, and my layout looks like it, but its MY MESS, and I love it. Just make sure the track makes at least one loop, so you don't run a train off the benchwork. 

Two words. Train Buddy.

Every hobby I have; at least 50% of the fun is sharing it with someone else. Cars, Hunting, Golf, Trains. There is nothing social about just doing it all by yourself. As for creativity, friends will give you feedback, and ideas. 

I retired two years ago January. EVERY DAY, I set a goal to complete SOMETHING. Some are simple tasks, many are more involved. But, it prevents be from spending the day doing nothing.

John....I seem to remember that you have been struggling with this hobby for quite a while since I recall similar posts you have made over the years.  I think you may be analyzing this too much.  There is no such thing as the perfect layout in the sense of the word "perfect".  What may be perfect for one person is not for another.  Since you are a subscriber (by the way, you need to go into your account and change your address otherwise you will miss some issues...USPS won't forward for very long) you may want to review the Publisher's Corner articles which address establishing a purpose for the layout....basically how to decide and plan how your interests in the hobby can be translated into a layout blueprint.  Don't rush and feel pressured...take your time.  Put some track down and run a train while you are working on the plans to incorporate your ideas.  Heck...that is part of the fun seeing the layout change and evolve over time.  Relax and enjoy!

If the On30 details are exciting but stressful, just scale it down a bit (pun intended).  Live a double life.  On30 on the road and 3 rail at home.

Your stress and "work" of On30 will be with club members, so you will be working together toward a common goal.  Your home layout will be your "ole standby" 3 rail layout that you are familiar with and have a large collection and memories.

When you are doing one, you are away from the other.  It's almost like having two hobbies.  And who knows, your On30 "perfections" might drive your 3 rail layout to be a better layout.

Do you live trains all year or do you have other interests?  I'm a seasonal guy, so my train season starts in Oct/Nov timeframe and ends in the March/April timeframe.  I have other interests in the warmer weather and my trains (and building) go virtually dormant.  But as September draws to a close along with summer I start to get excited about the upcoming train season.

The other thing I decided it not to work in order of building and construction.  My layout is in all stages from finished (nothing is ever really finished) to raw benchwork.  So when I go down into the basement I can work on anything I feel like.  I can work on wiring, trackwork, ballast, scenery, buildings, fine details or just run trains.  Whatever is driving me that day.  Keeps the variety in the hobby.

Have Fun!

Ron

John,

Most of the comments and advice above comes from what I describe as "active" model railroaders, but you seem closer to my camp. the "inactive" model railroaders.  I have been in this hobby for over 50 years and have acquired N, HO, O scale and O gauge models, all of which I still possess, but I have never built a layout.  I belonged to a club once that was planning to build in an abandoned 16-lane bowling alley of a commercial building, but that fell through when the HO part of the group kicked out the much smaller O scale part of the group.

Personally, I once had a small loop in my first apartment just to test out the equipment I was acquiring second hand.  Then, when I married and started a family, we bought an older home in a great neighborhood with good schools that we could barely afford.  The attic was unfinished, the living area walls were uninsulated lathe and plaster attached to the cinder block exterior, and the basement was a dump.  But, I envisioned fixing it all up and building my "empire" in the basement.

Fast forward 40 years, and the living areas are all pretty nice now, my spouse has an expanded kitchen to enjoy and the kids are all grown and out, but the attic and basement are still dumps with no "empire" built.  In fact, the only time I run trains is around the Christmas tree and those are my childhood Lionel trains.  My spouse still has her childhood American Flyer in a box somewhere.

The purpose of my story: I have never built any kind of layout, and I've come to accept that as my choice, but I still enjoy this hobby.  You can enjoy it, too, if you just accept where you're at, if only for the time being.  Somewhere down the line, you might be motivated by something you see, hear or read.  But if not today, not this week, or not this month, don't worry about it.  It's a hobby that's supposed to be fun for you, not upset you.

Chuck

Do something, anything, even if it is wrong.  I found out that I can do wrong very well.

Paralysis by analysis, allow yourself the freedom to fail.  You are not building for a model RR code inspector, you are seeking an expressive way to enjoy a hobby.  Have  fun or sell it and get into something you can feel more confident pursuing.

By the way, the photos of what you have already completed would make many readers envious.

My solution:

Wow, I understand where you are, however you’ve got many friends in the hobby , via this wonderful OGR Forum, with fantastic ideas for your consideration, and I wonder if you have a peer group in your area, 100 mile radius, of friends that have layouts?  I’m in Clarksville Tennessee and within a 100 mile radius, Nashville, Tn., Madisonville Ky., Owensboro Ky., Evansville In., and just a bit further Louisville Ky., there’s a great many friends with layouts, from medium, to huge that are fun to visit. This pandemic has really stopped our visiting each other however by staying at home, it’s created great timing to work on our trains and read the OGR Forum news. My layout is a Looney mixture of non-scale, some scale like things, snow village, and Lionel accessories, a dukes mixture of things, but they are all fun. My layouts name is “Leapin Larry’s Looney Lines RR”, THE QUAD L SYSTEM, simply fun to run. Now it’s all Lionels Legacy controlled, track, trains, switches, etc., so, I recommend you pick a Control System of your choice, Lionel, MTH.  A friend one time told me, “an inch is a cinch, so, find a beginning spot, go slow and get to work. Thanks for sharing your thoughts, we understand. 

Practice scrambling a few eggs here and maybe you'll likely have a nice omelette if you try; and at least some scrambled.

A souffle will take time, patience, and some luck at some altitudes

I rather have some scrambled eggs or an omelette than bad souffle 🤔

John, I've been there and I did what my mama told me to, "Go outside and play". Went outside and built a G scale layout in the backyard.  Lot's of the Garden guys are into narrow gauge if that's your thing.  It even rekindled my interest in Postwar trains again.  In Colorado, you can work on your buildings and rolling stock all winter indoors and take it all out to play in the spring.  Stainless track is fine left outdoors year 'round.  Of course you will want to wait to start the actual track until you move.

My email is in my profile if you want a little more info.

Chris S.

A long time ago, after my self-imposed "high standards" were starting to become unbearable, I did the only thing that one could do to preserve their sanity - I decided to LOWER my standards.

I've been having a LOT more fun ever since!!!

It works! 

I am a perfectionist and drove myself crazy making the simplest things. There was no finish line short of perfection. It was hard to complete anything.

After about a 15 year break from trains altogether, I got into pre-war tinplate, and couldn't be happier. No more scale fidelity. Now it's about the artistic arrangement of things, not slavishly copying reality. As an artist, this appeals to me. Finally building a layoiut- a Christmas layout and a whopping 4' x 6'!

John,

You have been this way for many years as Alan stated. When you lived here back east you could never make up your mind on what you wanted to do. And now you are doing it again. 

I don't know what to tell you John. If I were you I would seek professional help to determine why you do this. 

Doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results is a disaster waiting to happen.

Good luck John,

Dave

Look John, you don’t need our help. You’ve got this. If you want realism and great hi-rail, then start now. Google search ‘Rod Stewart train layout’. Rod , a rocker, built his layout on the road.  He built it in his head, and on the road in a hotel. You can do this. Start small like Rod. Build big, like Rod!

George

My approach was a bit unconventional, but it worked for me. I started not with a layout plan, but with a train. That train was The Blue Comet, which was an easy choice growing up on the Jersey Shore.

From there, I studied it's route, which led me to the New York and Long Branch, and the lines serving Atlantic City. Rather than try to build a detailed model of the whole route, I built a fantasy world that gives the feel of the Jersey Shore, with a lighthouse, bridges, and a three-track yard that was inspired by the Bayhead yard.

Finally, I added other CNJ equipment from various eras, along with PRR equipment. I have a set of Department 56 Monopoly buildings that I will use to simulate Atlantic City, and will add Reading and B&O equipment as time and finances permit.

Then, I added a freight yard with an iceing station, a public delivery track for a coal dump, barrel unloading, and a milk platform. 

This took some time, but before I knew it, I had a pretty good layout.