Lowering voltage using legacy, tmcc or dcs

Yep, it sure will.   If you run a standard TMCC locomotive without the AC regulator on lower than 18 volts, you do indeed get less smoke.

I have thought about lowering the voltage on my roundhouse tracks to the bare minimum to run a loco to reduce the potential damage from an all out take off in the event of a loss of legacy signal. It would be q shame to have as many as 19 locos just take off

I run my grandson's LionChief stuff at a much reduced voltage to enforce a speed limit.  

Tony

Matt, why would you have all the tracks powered in the roundhouse?  Most folks have individual switches for each roundhouse track.

The answer to your question is no for DCS and yes/no/maybe so for TMCC/Legacy.  MTH uses pwm power to the heater and pulsed power less than 5V for the fan motor.  So if the smoke unit is looking for 6-9V for the heater, the circuit board can still provide that at track voltages above that limit.  So if track voltage is 14V you still have full smoke.  Same as the engine can still maintain a low to medium scale speed.

TMCC and Legacy are different as there many different model smoke units.  Fan driven still use 5VDC for fan motor so that can adjust to the lower track voltage and still work fine, but the element is the issue.  IF the element is powered directly from track voltage via R2LC the answer is yes, though R2LC try's to compensate with a gross adjustment based on being in Command mode versus conventional.   But if run off the ACREG with a much lower resistor value and lower operating voltage required, I don't think you will see much of change.  G

Matt Makens posted:

I have thought about lowering the voltage on my roundhouse tracks to the bare minimum to run a loco to reduce the potential damage from an all out take off in the event of a loss of legacy signal. It would be q shame to have as many as 19 locos just take off

The engines would just sit there unless the power is cycled.  The thought that Legacy and TMCC engines pull out a full speed with the loss of the Legacy signal is incorrect.  Upon power up the engine will look for a Legacy / TMCC signal.  If none is present they start in conventional in nuetral.  It's only when the power is cycled is when they take off.  If the Legacy signal is lost while running the engines stop (often a complaint when at a point in the layout that is hard to reach).

The important thing to remember is, if when you start your session and the engines start up (sounds) without your input do not toggle your power.  That will send them forward in conventional with full voltage.  Just turn the power off and trouble shoot the signal issue.  Off the top of my head if you wait about 30 seconds (probably less) the engines will again start up in nuetral if the signal is still not present to send them to command.

MartyE posted:

ff the top of my head if you wait about 30 seconds (probably less) the engines will again start up in nuetral if the signal is still not present to send them to command.

If only that were true.

I left a TMCC engine powered off for over ten minutes after cycling power with no TMCC signal, it still takes off at full speed.

gunrunnerjohn posted:

MartyE posted:

ff the top of my head if you wait about 30 seconds (probably less) the engines will again start up in nuetral if the signal is still not present to send them to command.

If only that were true.

I left a TMCC engine powered off for over ten minutes after cycling power with no TMCC signal, it still takes off at full speed.

Maybe it depends on the engine?  My TMCC engines cycle to neutral if with out track power for something like 10-20 seconds.  

JGL

I left one for hours, just came back and powered up the track.  Swooooosh, it took off like a rocket!  Remember, we're talking about the second power cycle with no TMCC signal, the first time it just sits in neutral, the second time it's off to the races.

I just left a Legacy GP7 sitting after a couple of power cycles with no TMCC, it started to move the second one.  Fifteen minutes later, I just turned on the power, and away it went.  At least it had the decency to accelerate slowly so you can react when you see all your locomotives on the move, but I don't think there is any timeout on this action for TMCC or Legacy.

That covers TMCC with the R2LC, and early Legacy with the R2LC, but I know my VL-BB does the same thing, so I think that covers the universe of Lionel TMCC/Legacy behavior.

My two engines that have ERR have both taken off when I was running them slowly through the train yard. They only do it in the rain yard near the switches. I am questioning future purchases of Legacy or TMCC engines or any RC engines.

Denny, if a TMCC/Legacy locomotive loses the TMCC signal and has two power cycles, it's in conventional mode going forward.  So, what you see must be the result of that happening.  I guess the question is, why do you lose the TMCC signal in your train yard?  Maybe you should look into addressing that.

I am pretty much a newcomer to TMCC/Legacy, but I chose to power the track through a Legacy Powermaster in conventional mode. That makes powering the track a gradual and deliberate process; and I can stop cranking up the PM if I see something inappropriate. Because the Legacy Powermaster works off the track signal itself, not a data cable, it also won't let me power the track unless the track signal is present, so if I accidentally kick the plug out of the command base, the track can't power up.

I go for the gold, flip the PH180 switches and 18 volts to the track!

gunrunnerjohn posted:

I go for the gold, flip the PH180 switches and 18 volts to the track!

Some people like to live on the edge....

There's living on the edge and then there's living on the edge!

That's not living on the edge, she has a line and a safety line!

gunrunnerjohn posted:

Denny, if a TMCC/Legacy locomotive loses the TMCC signal and has two power cycles, it's in conventional mode going forward.  So, what you see must be the result of that happening.  I guess the question is, why do you lose the TMCC signal in your train yard?  Maybe you should look into addressing that.

 John, I put some ground planes between the tracks, but that didn't help. So what I did was check the levels of my track because that section is off by 1/8th of a inch. Plus the engine loses power there too. Not all the time nor does it run wild all the time either. There was a slight dip in the track so what I did was level all the tracks so that the roller contacts are making solid contact. The engine doesn't lose power anymore and I'm still waiting to see if it goes wild again. I stand by the transformer to cut power if it does. It always happens in the same spot on all three spurs right where the dip was.

So if I read this thread correctly, if  I run Legacy engines in the conventional mode and the track voltage is 12-14 volts with an 8-9 car consist, There is nothing I can do, I will get reduced smoke. What is the Ac regulator mentioned above?  Thanks.

Actually, with the voltage regulator, you don't have major smoke issues at lower voltages, that's the whole point of the voltage regulator.  The lower value resistor means they need less voltage (but more current) to the smoke unit to produce the same quantity of smoke.

Maybe I missed it reading all the threads, is this regulator added or is it there from LIONEL? 

The AC regulator is a factory feature of pretty much all Legacy locomotives and some selected TMCC locomotives.  It's actually possible to add an AC Regulator to a TMCC locomotive, I've done it as a test.  I actually bought a few regulators to try to do this for upgrades.