Magne-traction upgrade?

There have been threads about "recharging" the Magna-traction, look around for those.

Lionel diesel locomotives with early Magne-Traction (1949-1950) tend to have an issue with MagneTraction going expired. The early NW-2's and ALCO's in particular. They used blocks of magnets inside the entire truck, but had to be spaced a specific way to avoid interfering with the axle rotation, and years of child punishment quickly shook them out of place.

This was solved in about 1952 with engines like the C&O 624 NW-2 that used cylindrical magnets in the axles. If you want to replace the truck, find one with the magnetized axle system.

Now I understand the distinction between the early and later diesels.   I have a 2032 Erie (1954) that has very strong magnetraction so I expected the 2023 (1950) to have the same but now I know why because each has a different design.  I read some comments about recharging a 2023 but if the magnets are missing, what is there to recharge?  I would just as soon replace the power truck with the later design like my 2032 has.  One last question.  Are the later trucks compatible with the earlier 2023?  I mean, I just want to be able to take the original off and insert the new one without any fit issues.

Note that the original magnets are still available from North Lima Trainworks. The old ones can be removed and the new ones JB welded in place. (superglue won't do the job.) I must say I am surprised that the original magnets have gone weak. They almost never loose their magnetism.

I was surprised too since I expected the 2023 to be as strong as the 2032.  It's good to know that the original magnets are still available.   I assume to have to remove the truck and JB Weld them on?   It sounds simple enough.  Would I expect to see an outline or some other indicator where these magnets should be glued or does that not matter?

Just as long as the magnets are centered between the wheels while the epoxy is drying. Cardboard shims between the wheels works, so the magnets don't creep while the JB Weld is setting and rub on the wheels. Be sure both magnets polarity are facing the same way, or it will cancel out most magnetism on the rails.

I have some new ones available, email me off line...

Marty

Could rare earth magnets be used as replacements or would they be too strong?

aussteve posted:

Could rare earth magnets be used as replacements or would they be too strong?

I have used an axially magnetized cylindrical neodymium magnet on a 736 steam loco, and it's incredibly powerful. Powerful enough to suck up the center pickup roller assembly if I go over a bump the wrong way. You might be able to obtain a rectangular neodymium magnet the right size for the 2023. Just keep in mind you can't go cutting these things to fit. They are prone to fracture and the dust is extremely flammable.

  One last question.  Are the later improved design trucks compatible with the earlier 2023?  I mean, I just want to be able to take the original off and insert the new one without any fit issues.

No, only a 2000 series Alco truck will fit. (2023, 2033, 2031, and 2032.) These are hi quality, and not much room to improve. If you are going to exchange the whole truck instead of just the magnets, be sure to inspect the front coupler for damage/operation.

Another heads up. Keep the original sideframes. The 2023 UP Alco's have a side step in the sideframes, where as the later Erie and Rock Island do not have these steps, nor the holes to mount them.

Well that answers my question, thanks.  I found a 2033 truck on Ebay and it's one that you say will fit.   I did notice the side ladders on the 2023 that my 2032 Erie does not have so I will do as you suggest.  Thanks again

I assume that taking off the side frames is just a matter of prying them off with a small screwdriver or is there some other better or preferred method to perform this task?

Just held in place with a single screw.

OK, thanks

@GregR posted:

I have used an axially magnetized cylindrical neodymium magnet on a 736 steam loco, and it's incredibly powerful. Powerful enough to suck up the center pickup roller assembly if I go over a bump the wrong way. You might be able to obtain a rectangular neodymium magnet the right size for the 2023. Just keep in mind you can't go cutting these things to fit. They are prone to fracture and the dust is extremely flammable.

@GregR Just browsed across this older thread and saw your post. Would you mind providing a little more info on the "axially magnetized cylindrical neodymium magnet" you used? Where did you get it, how is mounted, and perhaps a pic or two would be great. I have a 736 shell sitting on a 726 (non-magnetraction) frame & motor, and although it pulls well, I'd like to see if I can improve things a bit. I'd appreciate anything you can tell me. Thanks!

George

You could stack a few of these to make things work, they're very powerful.

K&J Magnetics D44-N52

For smaller diameter, try the D22-N52.

@GeoPeg posted:

@GregR Just browsed across this older thread and saw your post. Would you mind providing a little more info on the "axially magnetized cylindrical neodymium magnet" you used? Where did you get it, how is mounted, and perhaps a pic or two would be great. I have a 736 shell sitting on a 726 (non-magnetraction) frame & motor, and although it pulls well, I'd like to see if I can improve things a bit. I'd appreciate anything you can tell me. Thanks!

George

George,

I'm assuming you have the 1952 version of the 726 Berkshire with sintered iron wheels. The older versions from 1946 through 1949 don't have magnetic wheels, so a magnet upgrade would serve no purpose.

The magnet that I used was model "D8E" from K&J Magnetics, referenced in John's post above. That magnet is 1/2" diameter x 7/8" long, axially magnetized. I preferred a single magnet, but you could stack a series of smaller magnets as John suggested if they are in the correct length increments to get you the required total length.

The mounting location is in a pocket between the rear drive axles. The magnet can be glued in place with a strong epoxy. Make sure you have it restrained in the correct position as the epoxy sets, because these magnets are incredibly strong and will want to shift.

I had no idea the cavity was that big, the 1/2" one would be a better choice for that job.  Looks pretty cheap as well.

That sucker might make it possible to run them upside down!

@GregR posted:

George,

I'm assuming you have the 1952 version of the 726 Berkshire with sintered iron wheels. The older versions from 1946 through 1949 don't have magnetic wheels, so a magnet upgrade would serve no purpose.

The magnet that I used was model "D8E" from K&J Magnetics, referenced in John's post above. That magnet is 1/2" diameter x 7/8" long, axially magnetized. I preferred a single magnet, but you could stack a series of smaller magnets as John suggested if they are in the correct length increments to get you the required total length.

The mounting location is in a pocket between the rear drive axles. The magnet can be glued in place with a strong epoxy. Make sure you have it restrained in the correct position as the epoxy sets, because these magnets are incredibly strong and will want to shift.

Actually, I have what I believe is the 1947 version of the 726. You have just enlightened me to a fact that I had completely forgotten. The older wheels aren't magnetic! I just checked my drive wheels with a magnet, and sure enough, there's no attraction to a magnet. However my wheels have the nickel plated tires and they are quite magnetic. I held a 1"x1/2"x3/8" magnet meant for a 2032 engine between the drive wheels, and lo and behold, all sorts of new magnetism on the wheel treads!

So when you say that you mounted the magnet in a "pocket", are you talking inside the engine, or outside on the bottom? If you mounted the magnet on the inside, was it in location A, B or C?

I'm just trying to get all the facts squared away before I put yet another project on my bench - this would be project #4, and I'm running out of room!

George

I believe the 1952 726 went back to steel axles for that one year. They would have to be changed to stainless steel axles for retrofitted magne-traction to work.

@David Johnston I don't have a 1952, it's (my best guess) is a 1947

George

@David Johnston posted:

I believe the 1952 726 went back to steel axles for that one year. They would have to be changed to stainless steel axles for retrofitted magne-traction to work.

David, what flavor were the axles on a 1947 model?

George

@GeoPeg posted:

@David Johnston I don't have a 1952, it's (my best guess) is a 1947

George

That means you have baldwin disc drivers that are zinc with steel rims. Magne traction will not work with those drivers. You would need to replace them with spoked drivers made of powdered iron and use a non-magnetic axle too.

Seems to me that a simpler fix would be to reduce the grade of your track and/or reduce the number of cars in a consist.

Or you could just tear out your O-gauge layout and do something else.   Maybe, just maybe, the OP doesn't want to live with those limitations?

Seems like this idea is getting more expensive and troublesome than it's worth, so.... I think I'll plunk down a few bucks and buy the 671-219 ballast for this critter and call it a day Thanks for all the input

George