Manco Booster - Question

You could simply put another booster in series with the first one and connect another dozen of the controllers to it.

Hi Gunrunner

Thanks 

But I am not good at this.

Assume Dale has another booster to sell me an I buy another of the boosters. How would I go about connecting it into the wiring?

Specifically, I come from the base then into the z-2001 then into the three wire cable to feed the first box, the ARC, then three wires to the 2nd ARC then two wires to the BPCs and the chain continues. [After reading the 2012 post I realize I must get a male/female adapter to more securely fit the connections].

How would I go about blending a 2nd or 3rd booster into this? Where I want to enter the 2nd booster I am left with two wires that have to be hooked into the booster. Do i need to get another set of serial cables where I cut and splice? It isn't intuitive to me. Any instruction you could give me would be very much welcomed.

Ralph 

I'd probably buy the one below and plug the other booster into the Communications port.  No extra wiring involved.

Thanks Gunrunner, then I assume a Lione base cable into the Accessories port on the 2nd booster. It'll give it a whirl.

Ralph

Not all controllers are optocoupled.  The TPC and similar products use optocouplers, but the small units like the AVC use a higher impedance non-isolated data input that doesn't draw as much current. 

What devices do you want to run?

Ralph, now you'll get real answers.   If anyone can answer it, the person that designed the box should be able to.

Hi  Dale

I started this post yesterday - Limit on nmber of TMCC devices.

https://ogrforum.com/d...ly=14100973942154425

This is a part of that post where I was explaining my wiring and the devices I am trying to power. Then this AM, I started this thread after reading about the limitations. 

"The comm serial plug goes to the Manco Booster then the Z-2001 plugs into it and the 3-wire base cable needed for the ARC plugs into that. From the ARC(s) - we go two wires to the other boxes. BPCs, (8), ASCs (8), TPCs set conventional [if I ever get the correct coding done] [2] and TPCs set Command (2), OTCs (2), AMC (2), AVCs (3). 

My layout is pretty big. I have been running mostly conventional and now am moving to LEGACY. My brilliant idea was to leave the layout alone, build a power center board, test it in a location where I did not have to crawl/bend/etc, then move it to the layout area, connecting all the outputs to the track, accessory and SW buses which run around the layout. 

I can see all the devices lite up when power comes on - I have a little LV trouble lite at the end of the chain of BPC, ARC, AMC, OTC boxes powered separately and it lites up as does the LED on each box. I can't get the CAB1 or CAB2 to talk to the TPCs so I can set them correctly to CONV/TMCC. When power comes up, the comm lite flashes, then goes off. I can't get the TRACK LED to come on when I try to address them. I am hoping to use ENG not TR to address them, but neither works.

If a 2nd booster is needed, I was going to email you directly as the next step to confirm. 

Ralph

Have you tried simplifying things by running the TPCs directly from the Base?  If you can get them to work with nothing in between, then you can start adding in the rest of the chain to see what stops the correct functioning. 

If you can't get things to work with a direct Base-to-TPC connection, things aren't going to get better when you add in more chains in the link!

Thanks Dale

i'll give that a try. Tomorrow I'll wire the base to the TPCs. If I get them to work then I'll add the ARCs in front of them, one at a time - they have to be first in line of all boxes. If that works I'll add the BPCs then AVCs then ASCs then the Z Data Driver then AMCs then OTCs. That is the priority of desire/need I want on the layout.

From what I am spreading about the 2500s, the Data Driver may not be worth the pain, but I have time for the turnout machines decision.

Even if I get the boxes to work, I am sensing that addressing the TMCC/Legacy engines might turn into a nightmare later on because of weak signal.

So a basic question still remains in my mind - will an additional booster aid me? 

Ralph

I don't think you have enough serial load to overload the Booster, but we will find out when you finish your testing.

Hi Dale [or anyone else that can help]

Sorry for the length of the post but I thought being thorough best

This move from conventional has put me in the deep end of the pool.  Haven't a clue after this AMs tests.  

I disconnected the data/comm connections between the ARCs, BPCs, TPCs, etc. so that each group of boxes stayed connected to each other but each group remains separated from each other group. I removed the booster and the Z-2001 from the mix as well.

So now we have a data/comm wire ready to go to each group direct from the command base, one group at a time to test the setup. When I put the power for the boxes to on, the led on each box light up and the 3v LV light at the end of the chain remains lit, indicating power goes thru all of them. Then I begin the data/comm connects.

First, I powered the data/comm to the ARC. It is a three wire cable. Tried to address it with CAB1. Removed the programing pin cover on the side. Entered ACC 1 Hit set. Awaited a flashing LED. Nada. 

Tried it with the CAB2. ACC 1 Hit set. the screen showed set. No flash on the LED on the ARC.

Disconnected the ARC from the data/comm and moved on to the BPCs. Connected data/comm to first BPC. Two wires. Same results. I can't get them addressed And no flashing LEDs. With the BPCs I first enter 98 to set the number of blocks. No flashes. Obviously valueless here.

Moved on to the TPCs. Same results. When I first turn on the transformer which will power the track/comm connections to the TPCs the comm flashes and goes off quickly, but when I put the switch to program, try to address either TR or ENG, I get nothing. To tried to enter the L or M for mode after entering the ID set had previously sent but this didn't get recognized either.

Each time I try it with the CAB1 and CAB2 - one group at a time.

Obviously it here is a lot about Legacy I don't know - though I have read the manuals for each box and the Legacy booklet. Any help appreciated. It can't be this difficult, can it?

Ralph

It sound like you are using 2 Bases and the Y cable.  Simplify things and just use the TMCC Base and CAB-1.

What connector and cabling are you using to get from the 9-pin to the controllers?  Check with an ohmmeter to see that pin 5 is connected to the Com wire and Pin 2 is connected to the DAT wire.

Move a TPC so that it is located at the TMCC Base.  (I believe the serial output circuit in the TMCC Base is more rugged than the Legacy Base output.)  Connect your 9-pin to DAT/COM cable directly to the TPC and attach power to the TPC input.  Don't worry about the output terminals.

Whenever you send any command not addressed to the TPC, the TPC's COMM green light should flash rapidly during the command.  When you finally get things talking correctly and you send a command to the TPC's programmed address, the green light will give a long flash, not the quick flashes.

What is the 3v LV light you mention?

Ralph,

You state your using both Legacy (cab-2) and TMCC (cab-1) bases. How are these wired in and what are you using for your dat/comm wires?

Doug

Dale, I  thought I said I had both TMCC and Legacy, sorry.

I'll test as you suggest later tonight.  

I added a 3v LVIV light at the end of the 'boxes' chain off of the power screws - A/U - I thought this a way to verify that the boxes worked and power flowed from connection to connection for all of the boxes, of which its obvious I have a lot.

Doug, I have it connected just as the picture on page 65 titled Dual Base Operations.

ralph

I guess I don't know what a "3v LVIV" light is.  You should be seeing at least 12V on the AU bus. 

Doug,

I checked the product numbers of the Data/Comm cables. I am using the 6-14192 [3 wire cable] to connect to the ARC.  I have the 6-14191 [ two wire cable] should I need it.  They were brand new out of the wrapper. The Legacy/TMCC connections are wired with the cables that came in the Legacy box. Again, brand new out of the box.

Dale, must have mis-typed the LV thing. The reason I am using it was my simplistic way of testing that power gets to the place I wanted it. Not to measure the true output. Searching for the ohm meter then will test the TPCs and the other boxes while I am at it. Checking pins is probably above my skill level, but I'll give it a try. 

Ralph

The 9-pin female on my TMCC Base has pin numbers on it.  #1 is in the upper right corner; #5 is the upper left.

Assuming NEW = GOOD will get you into a _lot_ of trouble!!

Hi Dale and All Who had input.  THANKS so much!!!!! I am over the hump as they say.

I followed your guidance - I guess it is the KISS method. I am certainly part of the last "S" in KISS. If you read back in the post, I described my "brilliant idea" of this massive power center with all the components located centrally. Well that idea required a lot of wires and connections thru 'euro' connectors to actually get around this power panel that I have built. Where in lied the problem.

Working backwards from the TPCs [which I got to work and set to the Command/Conventional settings I was hoping for] I found a couple of loose data/comm wires. While the power wires from the transformer to the box had my little LV lite to check that power went thru all of the boxes, the Data/Comm did not have such a trick to signal all was correctly wired. On retrospect, a multimeter might have been a good idea.

Even though I used solid telephone wire, color coded, for the data/com and box power, there were three wires that did not get held down by the screws in the strips and caused the faulty communication between the CAB1 and the components.

I seem to have RESOLVED this with the Command base and CAB1 as separate groups of boxes. I now need to check them as the lengthy chain - my original question - which may be moot and hidden by the faulty wiring. 

I have stopped for today, and will take up the reconnect for all boxes including the Z-2001 - thru the TMCC base and CAB1. Once I get thru that, onto the Legacy box reconnect.

Before I attempt that, I will first make sure I understand how to use the CAB2 better than I do now. I find the Lionel documentation lacking for me so it will be a while I am guessing before I see Legacy on the layout. 

Thanks for all your help Dale. On one hand, I am happy it was a silly issue, but I really apologize for taking up your time with the nonsense problem.

PS, does any one make a serial cable that uses solid wire instead of the 'hair strands' that Lionel offers? 

Ralph

There's a good reason that stranded wire is used in pre-made cables.  Solid wire is really for permanent installations, it would quickly break with any level of handling.