Military Tribute Cars

I don't mean any offensive to anybody, but I just don't understand the desirability  of tribute items in any way, shape or form (not just model trains). That is, unless a significant portion of the purchase price of the item goes to a fundraiser related to the tribute.

As a Veteran I would personally take offense to such a thing. Besides, just how would you go about obtaining permission from congress to use the Medal Of Honor art work?

How would that be offensive?

El Classico posted:

How would that be offensive?

Apparently you have NEVER been in the military!

Nope. Not for lack of trying though.

El Classico posted:

Nope. Not for lack of trying though.

Maybe when you graduate from high school you could join.

Very funny hot water. Medical issues prevented it.

El Classico posted:

Very funny hot water. Medical issues prevented it.

So,,,,,you changed your profile. You previously were a "High Schooler in Florida." Cute.

0.o

Hot Water posted:

El Classico posted:

How would that be offensive?

Apparently you have NEVER been in the military!

Ok, well I  have (and have spoken with countless awardees of the medal of the years), and a model train car with a representation of the medal on it doesn't offend me in the slightest, no more so than the recent US Postal Service stamp with the same representation of the medal on it. You could make train cars with awards I have of my own and those wouldn't offend me either.

I wouldn't buy one because I like models of cars you can find on the 1:1 scale railroads and I don't model 3-rail, but considering all the other commemoratives out there, it doesn't bug me at all.

There's lots of MoH commemorative stuff out there, beats me why anyone would get their panties in a wad over something like this. It's not like the car would likely say, "The owner was awarded one of these"...

But then again, we now live in an age where many people are desperately looking for things to be offend by.

p51 posted:

Hot Water posted:

El Classico posted:

How would that be offensive?

Apparently you have NEVER been in the military!

Ok, well I  have (and have spoken with countless awardees of the medal of the years), and a model train car with a representation of the medal on it doesn't offend me in the slightest, no more so than the recent US Postal Service stamp with the same representation of the medal on it. You could make train cars with awards I have of my own and those wouldn't offend me either.

I wouldn't buy one because I like models of cars you can find on the 1:1 scale railroads and I don't model 3-rail, but considering all the other commemoratives out there, it doesn't bug me at all.

There's lots of MoH commemorative stuff out there, beats me why anyone would get their panties in a wad over something like this. It's not like the car would likely say, "The owner was awarded one of these"...

But then again, we now live in an age where many people are desperately looking for things to be offend by.

Thank you kamerade.

I edited the original Idea however.

The list of MOH awardees is published. Speaking to "countless" numbers of them would be a feat indeed.

GVDobler posted:

The list of MOH awardees is published. Speaking to "countless" numbers of them would be a feat indeed.

 

Ah yes, welcome to the town of Semantics, where so many people live who are online...

I meant countless to me. I couldn't possibly count all the MoH awardees I've met in my lifetime as there have been a lot of them over the years.

Gentlemen,

   Time for some American history, long ago when the UP ask Major Audie Murphy if their Railroad could honor him with a tribute in some way, he said sure paint a big American Flag on the engine, for every Military Veteran who has ever served, and especially for those who have given their lives.  The UP Tribute already exists on the real UP Engines, his tribute still rides the rails even today on everyone of the UP Engines with the big waiving American Flag, and you can purchase the O Gauge version if you so desire.  

Might consider what CMA SGT Audie Murphy said before you start making a Tribute Train of any kind. 

CMA - Correct US Military Initials/Nomenclature for the Congressional Metal of Honor.

PCRR/Dave

I was in the military and would buy a military tribute train if done with respect and was a quality piece. 

David1,

    It would have to be done with great respect and be a very high quality piece, for me to purchase it.  I would display it in our formal living room, on the Fire Place Mantel, year around.  

PCRR/Dave

It would be hand made sheet metal, probably lettered by masking before spray painting.

Oddly enough, I was thinking about Audie Murphy today.  Don't know why.  I just bought a toothbrush and dish soap at the Dollar store, got in my truck and was thinking about Audie Murphy.  To Hell and Back.  My dad said the movie couldn't show his best feats in battle because no one would believe it.  I saw the movie and read the books.  My favorite part is when he jumps on the burning tank and fires off the 50 cal and turns back a German assault, then jumps off just before it explodes.  Great stuff.  He was credited for around 230 killed directly, not counting all the casualties he created by calling in artillery and air strikes under extreme duress in the heat of battle.  I'm glad his flag is flying on an engine.  He certainly deserves it.  Probably a million American heroes do, which is what he was saying I think.

(Audie deserved the Medal of Honor.  He wasn't going to get an Oscar for his acting in the movies following To Hell and Back.  Entertaining, but... Ouch.)

Pine Creek Railroad posted:

Gentlemen,

   Time for some American history, long ago when the UP ask Major Audie Murphy if their Railroad could honor him with a tribute in some way, he said sure paint a big American Flag on the engine, for every Military Veteran who has ever served, and especially for those who have given their lives.  The UP Tribute already exists on the real UP Engines, his tribute still rides the rails even today on everyone of the UP Engines with the big waiving American Flag, and you can purchase the O Gauge version if you so desire.  

Might consider what CMA SGT Audie Murphy said before you start making a Tribute Train of any kind. 

CMA - Correct US Military Initials/Nomenclature for the Congressional Metal of Honor.

PCRR/Dave

Dave, 

You're not even close with the abbreviation of the medal. Or what it's actually callled.

And Murphy was a LT at the time he was awarded the medal. Few things drive Army NCOs nuts more than reminding them he was an officer during the action that he was awarded the medal for...

p51 posted:

Hot Water posted:

El Classico posted:

How would that be offensive?

Apparently you have NEVER been in the military!

Ok, well I  have (and have spoken with countless awardees of the medal of the years), and a model train car with a representation of the medal on it doesn't offend me in the slightest, no more so than the recent US Postal Service stamp with the same representation of the medal on it. You could make train cars with awards I have of my own and those wouldn't offend me either.

I wouldn't buy one because I like models of cars you can find on the 1:1 scale railroads and I don't model 3-rail, but considering all the other commemoratives out there, it doesn't bug me at all.

There's lots of MoH commemorative stuff out there, beats me why anyone would get their panties in a wad over something like this. It's not like the car would likely say, "The owner was awarded one of these"...

But then again, we now live in an age where many people are desperately looking for things to be offend by.

countless you say do you even know how many are still alive today 79 so I sure would like to know how you have talked with countless number of them over 60% has been issued posthumously. 

here's another fact for you also 

In 1990, Congress designated March 25 annually as "National Medal of Honor Day".^[14] Due to its prestige and status, the Medal of Honor is afforded special protection under U.S. law against any unauthorized adornment, sale, or manufacture, which includes any associated ribbon or badge.

Bill 

Read the thread again and you'll see this is the second time I've had to explain the number was countless to ME as I've met many of them over the last 30 or so years. Lots more of them were still alive back when I was much younger.

I didn't write all their names down over the years as it never occured to me that anyone would get transfixed on a simple world, especially more than once...

 And the law you mentioned covers making replicas of the medal or ribbon. It doesn't stop a lot of replicas coming out of Asia, especially China.

 There's plenty of MoH Items being made. Google is your friend as you can see many of them. I assume you didn't think to even look up all those items already out there that are Medal related.

Like I said earlier, I have modified the idea to honor the fallen heroes, the unrecognized ones, rather than those already honored for their actions.

El Classico Just an idea do a car say ( and you can pick your conflicks ) WWII, Korea, and Vietnam one car honor each war and our fallen heros. With that theme you could carry it on beyond if you want say Grenada, Gulf wars ( you could do a couple here ) WWI etc,etc so once a year or every 6 months even, a new car to add on. 

It's your call but just an idea, kinda like it also your idea. 

I had thought about that. I only intend to make a dozen or so sets of them though, and decided upon making unique sets named after individuals who came from different regions. If others came on board with the idea, mebe Mernards or Williams even, it would be feasible to do that. But as currently conceptualized, as myself working on making the cars by hand in my spare time, I simply cannot do that.

Although if my attempts at making my own tooling work, I might do that.

So, are you thinking of a car for each conflict or one for each branch of the military? the latter would make for a much easier project, of course...

I think Lionel should do a commemorative series featuring honest politicians on the sides of cars.

I'm thinking a beat up docksider pulling a bobber caboose on a one way rusty track. Built to order with fifty per cent down of course, and a promised delivery date that never comes.

Best of luck.  Cheers.

P51,

   You are correct about only one part of your statement, Murph was awarded the CMA as a 1st Lt, he earned it as a SGT, along with many many others, and refused to accept 2 more CMA's.  I know this to be a fact.  His rank of Major Came later, in the Texas US Army Reserve.   Further every US Army legal CID document uses the CMA - Congressional Metal of Honor designation on it, when written about, in no other way is is written.  Course my ETS out of the military was a along time ago now.

PCRR/Dave

Copy of the original French Photo taken on the Battle Field, of SGT Audie Murphy, and his fallen friend, SGT Audie Murphy was the original, leave no man behind soldier.  

I could do it as branches rather than conflicts, hmmm.....

EL Classico,

    The Military Branch Box Car Train would definitely be cool, it would go over very well also, in fact I want one already, with a big UP Flag Waving Flagship Engine pulling them.  Put General Jimmy Stewart's Photo, in his flight jacket, on the US Army Air Corps Box Car for me, SGT James Arness on both sides of the US Marine Box Car, Col Fredricks in his SF gear, on one side of the US Army Box Car with PVT Brian Keith on the other, and Capt Denny Boyce on his Viet Nam Gun Boat, on the US Coast Guard Box Car, and Lt Commander Daniel Kearns training the Seals at the Santiago Seal Diver Training facility, on the US Navy Box Car. 

Now this kind of Military Box Car Train would really mean something.

PCRR/Dave

I might just do that, Pine. Never even considered boxcars for the various branches. Might be a bit simpler to do than the passenger cars, as I can get the more complicated parts from Olsen or another part supplier. So that would be Navy, Army, Air Force, and Marines? Or is there a branch I'm leaving out?

EL Classico,

   You are leaving out the US Coast Guard, please remember that branch, lots of brave men in that branch of our US Military have defended and given their very lives to protect our Country.  The post above lists all Branches of the US Military and some incredible men, each with one or more Purple Heart decorations from their prospective branches.

PCRR/Dave

Knew I was forgetting something. I'll have to take a look around, see what kind of graphics I can cook up, body and the like. As long as there is sufficient interest, I might just go the route of boxcars instead.

Which would people prefer, boxcars or passenger cars?

Pine Creek Railroad posted:

P51,

   You are correct about only one part of your statement, Murph was awarded the CMA as a 1st Lt, he earned it as a SGT, along with many many others, and refused to accept 2 more CMA's.  I know this to be a fact.   

 

Your facts are dead wrong, and a simple Google search would have shown you that. He refused  two other Medals of Honor? Thanks for the laugh, I needed that today! The only thing in the quote from you above that is right (other than his name) is that he was awarded a lot of medals from his time as an NCO. Just not the Medal of Honor.

BTW, the photo of Murphy you posted was taken from the set of the movie, "To hell and Back," (which was filmed in the Cascade Mountains of Washington State) not from the action itself. No photos exist of him actually in action at the time of the action at Holtzwihr.

Here's the actual commendation for the medal which proves he was LT at the time of the action (these commendations list the rank of the awardee at the time of the action, not their rank at the time it's awarded, but if you served, you should have known that already):

General Orders No. 65	WAR DEPARTMENT
Washington 25, D.C., 9 August 1945
MEDAL OF HONOR - Award		Section 1
* * * * *
I. MEDAL OF HONOR. - By direction of the President, under the provisions of the act of Congress approved 9 July 1918 (WD Bul. 43, 1918), a Medal of Honor for conspicuous gallantry and intrepidity at the risk of life above and beyond the call of duty was awarded by the War Department in the name of Congress to the following-named officer: Second Lieutenant Audie L. Murphy, 01692509, 15th Infantry, Army of the United States, on 26 January 1945, near Holtzwihr, France, commanded Company B, which was attacked by six tanks and waves of infantry. Lieutenant Murphy ordered his men to withdraw to a prepared position in a woods while he remained forward at his command post and continued to give fire directions to the artillery by telephone. Behind him to his right one of our tank destroyers received a direct hit and began to burn. It's crew withdrew to the woods. Lieutenant Murphy continued to direct artillery fire which killed large numbers of the advancing enemy infantry. With the enemy tanks abreast of his position, Lieutenant Murphy climbed on the burning tank destroyer which was in danger of blowing up any instant and employed its .50 caliber machine gun against the enemy. He was alone and exposed to the German fire from three sides, but his deadly fire killed dozens of Germans and caused their infantry attack to waver. the enemy tanks, losing infantry support, began to fall back. For an hour the Germans tried every available weapon to eliminated Lieutenant Murphy, but he continued to hold his position and wiped out a squad which was trying to creep up unnoticed on his right flank. Germans reached as close as 10 yards only to be mowed down by his fire. He received a leg wound but ignored it and continued the single-handed fight until his ammunition was exhausted. He then made his way to his company, refused medical attention, and organized the company in a counterattack which forced the Germans to withdraw. His directing of artillery fire wiped out many of the enemy; he personally killed or wounded about 50. Lieutenant Murphy's indomitable courage and his refusal to give an inch of ground saved his company from possible encirclement and destruction and enabled it to hold the woods which had been the enemy's objective.
* * * * *
BY ORDER OF THE SECRETARY OF WAR:
OFFICIAL:
EDWARD F. WITSELL Major General Acting the Adjutant General

There's other fights to be had than over when Murphy recieved the Medal of Honor, and what rank he held at the time.

El Classico posted:

There's other fights to be had than over when Murphy recieved the Medal of Honor, and what rank he held at the time.

I agree fully. But somehow, his rank and my use of the word, "countless" really brought out the misinformed and crazy for some folks.

Sorry about that!

BTW, I agree that the Coast Guard needs to be represented if all the other branches are. Look up their combat record, especially in WW2, which is very impressive.

I believe it. I'm actually a little shocked that I forgot about that branch.

The US Coast Guard is our point defense against the bad guys, They continue to blow us away when it comes to the amounts of drugs they capture. We are very proud to have them at DHS.