Marketing or Physics: Following on the O27 vs. O31 Minimum Diameter

"I'm starting to wonder if Lionel is simply trying to elevate the brand of LC+ engines above RTR and entry-level O27 toy trains by marking them as requiring 31" curves."

I would say yes to that pondering...It is a plus version of a product line with added features.

The minimum track recommendation is also a way to guide the customer to have the best experience.

Even in ye olden days, cataloged "O gauge" (meaning O31) locomotives like the F3's or Train Masters could go around O27 curves.

Rusty

Rusty Traque posted:

Even in ye olden days, cataloged "O gauge" (meaning O31) locomotives like the F3's or Train Masters could go around O27 curves.

Rusty

Absolutely, when I was a kid I ran my 736 on 027 curves. The point is if you are looking for realism the wider the curve, the better the look.

I think it has more to do with the fact that Lionel does not sell O27 track anymore.  The smallest FasTrack curve is O31  They are only going to test on their current offering, not on the track of yore.

So that would probably mean more of marketing for you.

sinclair posted:

I think it has more to do with the fact that Lionel does not sell O27 track anymore.  The smallest FasTrack curve is O31  They are only going to test on their current offering, not on the track of yore.

So that would probably mean more of marketing for you.

I agree with this!!! It is because they don't make O27 anymore. 

sinclair posted:

I think it has more to do with the fact that Lionel does not sell O27 track anymore.  The smallest FasTrack curve is O31  They are only going to test on their current offering, not on the track of yore.

So that would probably mean more of marketing for you.

It is exactly this. When I spoke with @Dave Olson at the Amherst Railway Show, I first asked if the new Vision Line Niagara would work on O27.  :-)  After chuckling and replying that it wouldn't, he said that since Lionel no longer makes and sells O27 track, they no longer test O27 compatibility.

Thanks. This all makes sense. I think those of us with a few 27" curves need to be careful but not entirely give up on every engine just because it says minimum is 31".  For me, I'm safe because I only have 27" curves on 1 of my 5 mainlines with the others at 34" or 42" as their mins.

I have had no issues with either Lionel or MTH engines billed as minimum 0-31 operating through 0-27 curves on my layout.  Now; I have had some funky lurching through some of my 0-27 switches with several of the Lionel engines but, no issues with MTH.  

I should note I removed the switch motor covers from all my 0-27 switches years ago to allow for operation of 0-31 engines.

Curt

juniata guy posted:

I have had no issues with either Lionel or MTH engines billed as minimum 0-31 operating through 0-27 curves on my layout.  Now; I have had some funky lurching through some of my 0-27 switches with several of the Lionel engines but, no issues with MTH.  

I should note I removed the switch motor covers from all my 0-27 switches years ago to allow for operation of 0-31 engines.

Curt

Interestingly, I owned this engine rated for 31" curves and when I tried running around a 180-degree turn with 27" curves, even at slow speed, it tipped on its side.  http://www.lionel.com/products...y-5450-tmcc-6-28030/.  It was not a large engine, just top-heavy.

Raising4:

I am limited to four axle locomotives because of the 0-27 switches.  This works fine for me since my modeling era generally speaking is the 1950's.  As a result, I tend to run a lot of F3's and GP9's.  MTH GP9's cruise around my layout with no issues - even the Premier models that tend to have more detail "stuff".  The Lionel F3's negotiate everything just fine but, modern era Lionel GP9's are the ones that tend to lurch through switches. 

My youngest son has 0-42 curves on his layout and I have experimented with some of his six axle locomotives and none of them can traverse an 0-27 curve on my layout let alone a switch.

Oddly enough; I also have MTH GP20's which are a bit longer than their GP9's and even they run through the 0-27 switches and curves without a problem.

I limit the length of my trains to no more than 9 or 10 cars.  Not sure if the drag of a long train is what is causing the tipping you mention but; with the train lengths I run - I have had no issues.

Curt

The latest Lionel catalog did have some items with a minimum rating of O-27 including a series of Box Cars and Trolley units.

A manufacturers specification comes from testing that is more complex than simply navigating an oval of a certain size. It also includes more complex situations with S curves, switch machine clearances and so an and so forth. As such, something rated for O-31 may successfully navigate a simple O-27 oval, but collide catastrophically with a switch machine or not have the truck rotational span to pass through an S curve or so on and so forth. Thus it gets rated O-31 as it passes the oval, switch machine, S curve and other tests at that curvature.

With such an O-27 footprint out there, I find it a shame that Lionel is giving it the cold shoulder. Thankfully, most LHS will welcome the request to take a few pieces of track of your target size and test the product to arrive at your own conclusions as to its abilities to navigate your particular scenario.