Skip to main content

Ultimately, consumers will vote with their wallets.

The market will resolve issues of manufacturing geography and degree of defects.

We can enjoy these endless discussions, but we'll still chase our tails and turn into butter. I have sent too many locomotives back for repair to continue purchasing at the same rate. Though I have a terrible weakness for trains, making good economic decisions will always be more important. In the last year I have sent four very expensive locos back for out of warranty repair. Each loco was barely a year or less out of warranty. I have a host of locos that are dead, not smoking, couplers not firing, etc. I am certainly out of patience with the entire scene. I have been down this road too many times to expect a different ending.

 

The locos are highly advanced technologically but inferior in terms of manufacturing consistency and long term reliability. At some point, I had to concede that it is simply too difficult to get a high degree of out of the box excellence and/or long term reliability.

Last week two locos simply stopped smoking. Both are now taking a ride via USPS. A third stopped but was reset. 

 

I don't want to spend so much time packing and shipping. It is as simple as that. For $1,000 to $1200 a pop I need better results. Now a locomotive is in the pipeline that will sell for $2,000+ ?

 

Enough.

Comparisons.

 

3rd Rail, 100% inspect at factory.  Stuff still happens.  They had to send back all the 3-rail FP7s because of bad wheels that derailed on Atlas turnouts.  There is an entire thread about this somewhere but as usual that is the one FP7 thread search refuses to find for me.

 

Overland,  100% inspect and test in Muncie, IN.

 

Exactrail HO.  Everything except assembly and painting/printing done in Utah.  They don't say where the assembly, etc is done but my guess is Mexico.  nice stuff and competitive pricing via direct sales only.

 

Apple.  Everything is made to order, contrary to popular belief.  Stores keep very little "generic" inventory on hand.  It's the ultimate just in time system to keep inventory, even at the component level minimized and minimal leftover inventory when products change.  However,  everything is tested at the component, subassembly and unit level and designs specifically account for vibrations and other shipping crud.  Apple is now manufacturing its Mac Minis for the US and European markets in Texas.  They plan on moving some laptop manufacturing there also this year.   Asian market stuff is still all made in China.

 

Automation is the key for Apple.  What takes over a thousand Chinese workers takes about 20-30 US workers.  Primarily shipping and receiving.  They take components into the system and they ship out packaged finished goods.   Others are monitoring and managing the systems that do all the manufacturing, etc.

 

Several "foreign" automakers are now exporting cars made in the US because the quality is higher than many other places.  However, because they can still make money they make many things in country for countries like China that requires certain percentages be made there.  All those US government employees GaS about is the profits for the companies not the workers.

 

The US has one of the lowest overall percentages of Government employees of anywhere in the world.  Places like Somolia are lower.

There is NO incentive for the train manufacturers to improve quality. People keep buying all the junk they can make and line up to buy it. Until you stop buying the poor quality they won't do anything to improve it. There pretty much has not been a day go by here that another guy doesn't have troubles with MTH or Lionel Legacy trains. Take 6 months or so off from buying new trains. Let them sit on the shelves until store owners complain loudly to Lionel and MTH. 

Rob

Originally Posted by John Korling:

I even seem to recall reading somewhere that either Lionel or MTH (or maybe both) have said that the majority of warranty work done was a result of user error more so than because of a design or quality control issue.

 

John, are you implying that many of the problems people have with their trains are due to not reading and following the instructions or operating it in a manner for which it was not intended?

 

Jerry

 

I have thought of an interesting experiment.
Take one of your " expensive" $1,000. Engines.
Sit down with a cup of coffee, all your tools, and a timer.
Completely dismantle your loco and go have lunch.
What? You are not done yet? 
Ok. Take your time. Remember the average US employee costs $1,000. Per day.

Done.
Ok. Now time yourself putting it back together.
What do you mean you did not unsolder all the circuit boards?
Or strip and repaint  and apply new decals.

Now factor in the cost of the components, paint, labor, etc.
Add in about 10-20k for tooling.
Forgot about packaging and package design.
Speaking of design, someone needs to draw the plans for this so everything will fit inside.
And to do the research to get the details right.
And it has to work on everyone's layouts.
And it has to work flawlessly.

All said and done, for what these are, they are extremely inexpensive.
You may not be able to afford them, but that is a different story.
And I doubt you could afford them if you were getting paid to assemble them in the USA.
You would be getting a fraction of the $1,000/day that you cost the company.

Ffffreddd,

 

Good post...However, you forgot one important point.. the major concern is the end product.  Does it run? and in some cases...is the engine even assembled? (Loose screws in the box or rattling about in the engine)  I truly believe this is a symptom of do more with less. The staff that some train companies have in place is horribly inadequate.  Whether its a training issue or simply a manning issue...it's failing in some cases. This issue is recognized by some train companies and nothing is being done about it.  That's truly disturbing in itself... The focus has been expanding product lines and not making sure your house in order. 

Ok..the trains are hit and miss..who's going to repair them?  The business model has been to push the responsibility to the dealers with minimum compensation. Many dealers don't want to deal with lack of repair parts and having to explain to the customer why the engine under warranty hasn't been repaired.  It ruins the credibility of the train shop.  Many train shops are saying "No way Charlie" and opting out of providing repair service...they would rather have the train manufacturer deal with unresolved parts and QC issues.

The issues go well beyond initial product delivery.. but most of us are fully aware of this already.

 

Sunrise

Here are the numbers from the Social Security site, which can be found at:
 
More information can be found at this site, but this number is given:
 
"The national average wage index for 2012 is 44,321.67. The index is 3.12 percent higher than the index for 2011."
 
This means average yearly wage.
 
 
Originally Posted by Doc Davis:
Originally Posted by Ffffreddd:
Remember the average US employee costs $1,000. Per day.


 

FMH,

 

Please provide documentation for this statement.

 

Thanks,

 

Last edited by Gordon Z
Hi Sunrise,

I do understand the issue.
This week I scored a K-line S2, MP-15, TMCC Rs3 hammerhead.
A weaver rs3.

A Lionel 44 tonner, RS2 (pullmor).
All new for under $600.
All except the weaver (known issue with gears) run great right out of box.
No bells and whistles. (Literally.) except TMCC.

K-line by far the most detailed, and best quality but we know what happened to them.
The Weaver has nice details but the story is that he got bad gears from a USA vender and spent years fixing. Finally went to "China" drive can motors and ruined the scale look.

Lionel units have basic electronic horn, solid runners but lack the detailing of the other two.
Solid runners and the bread and butter of Lionel.
The reason that they can afford to take risks with some of the high end stuff.
But I think of the high end stuff like 1960's Jaguars and Italian sports cars.
If you want it, it will cost you, and cost you....
That is just what it is.
To expect the style, details and functionality cheap and perfect just because it is "your" money is not realistic in MHO.
Therein lies the basic problem.
It used to be that you bought cheap and reliable or
paid a lot for scratch built brass with its own set of issues.
Or you scratch built and repaired it yourself.
What the average American gets paid and what they cost are two different things.
They need a building, electricity, toilets, parking lots, etc.
and heat.
I know because I own a company.
The average Chinese factory worker costs .64 per hour.
Because of their low cost of living, it is the equivalent of$3.25.

Regardless of their working conditions, like drugs,
The demand for the products come from Americans.
AndAmericans invest in these businesses.

Done talking. Just noticed that the horse died.
Originally Posted by Ffffreddd:
According to Money Magazine.

By the 1930s, Lionel Trains had grown to became a household name, but the sets weren't cheap. A train set in the 1950s cost about $80, which was "the average mortgage payment of an average house in the U.S.," according to Calabrese.


As they say. QYB.

And if you look at the average middle class home it the 50's, you would find 1 t.v. probably only 1 car. The house was less that 1/2 the size of the average house. Now look around at your house. And let me say I'm just as guilty as the next guy. Look at how much crap we have compared to then. We wanted to have more stuff. If you but it cheaper you can get more. It's the american way. Now we didn't know what was going to happen. And the manufactures, the retailers needed us to buy more crap. The economy needed us to buy more crap. People need jobs, and if we went back to the spending habits of 1955 the unemployment would sky rocket. It might cause a real depression. It's the ultimate catch 22, (the economy). I don't like it, but I don't begin to know the answer. Throw away products are good for the economy, stuff, (no mater the cost) that lasts 50 years now is just not good business. Again I don't like it. I am in the business of repairing appliances, my job is going the route of the milkman. I do less than 1/4 of the amount of repairs that I did in 1987.  Product doesn't last as long. Cost to repair has risen disproportionally to product cost. I do not like it. But "Whatcha gonnna do".

Originally Posted by Ffffreddd:
What the average American gets paid and what they cost are two different things.
They need a building, electricity, toilets, parking lots, etc.
and heat.
I know because I own a company.
The average Chinese factory worker costs .64 per hour.
Because of their low cost of living, it is the equivalent of$3.25.

Regardless of their working conditions, like drugs,
The demand for the products come from Americans.
AndAmericans invest in these businesses.

Done talking. Just noticed that the horse died.

Must be some kind of sweat shop if it "costs" $.64 or $3.25 per hour versus $1000 a day for an American worker.

Originally Posted by Dlo Traf:
Originally Posted by Ffffreddd:
According to Money Magazine.

By the 1930s, Lionel Trains had grown to became a household name, but the sets weren't cheap. A train set in the 1950s cost about $80, which was "the average mortgage payment of an average house in the U.S.," according to Calabrese.


As they say. QYB.

And if you look at the average middle class home it the 50's, you would find 1 t.v. probably only 1 car. The house was less that 1/2 the size of the average house. Now look around at your house. And let me say I'm just as guilty as the next guy. Look at how much crap we have compared to then. We wanted to have more stuff. If you but it cheaper you can get more. It's the american way. Now we didn't know what was going to happen. And the manufactures, the retailers needed us to buy more crap. The economy needed us to buy more crap. People need jobs, and if we went back to the spending habits of 1955 the unemployment would sky rocket. It might cause a real depression. It's the ultimate catch 22, (the economy). I don't like it, but I don't begin to know the answer. Throw away products are good for the economy, stuff, (no mater the cost) that lasts 50 years now is just not good business. Again I don't like it. I am in the business of repairing appliances, my job is going the route of the milkman. I do less than 1/4 of the amount of repairs that I did in 1987.  Product doesn't last as long. Cost to repair has risen disproportionally to product cost. I do not like it. But "Whatcha gonnna do".

I share your frustation.  I am not a "recreational shopper" and we buy appliances, like most thing, to last a long time and I am fine paying a premium for a product that will last and is designed to be repairable.  Today, the stuff, particularly appliances, seems built to last not even 10 years and then be pitched.  Makes no sense.  Bad for the consumer, bad for the people who can make a good living repairing them, bad for the environment.  But yet that is the model - why worry, put it on Visa and figure out to pay later - is the dominant mindset.

 

On a semi-related note, a colleague once noted that I wore expensive shoes - he asked me why I spent a lot on shoes.  (Allen Edmonds)  When I told hom the pair I had on were almost twenty years old -recrafted twice - his view on their costliness changed.  Quality is cheaper and makes the most sense ithe long run.  It is not a money issue, it is about getting use and enjoyment from our purchases, and not being aggravated by them.  Trains should be, and at one time clearly were time in this category.  Given the experience I have had, and judging from the length of this thread are not at all unusual, I can only conclude that some level that is changing.

 

Final note:  Frank Vacek lives not far from me, and does most of my repair work on stuff I want done professionally and to a higher standard that what I can do.  A real gentleman.  In any event, he has quite a train collection.  He commented that these newest generation high tech trains like the high end Legacy and Vision Line products will work about 100 hours before failures make them a real mess to operate.  At first I thought that was more his opinion.  Now I think he really knows what he is talking about.  

 

Note to the big train manufacturers:  please work on long term quality.  Trains are not throw away items.

Last edited by RAL
Originally Posted by Gordon Z:
Here are the numbers from the Social Security site, which can be found at:
 
More information can be found at this site, but this number is given:
 
"The national average wage index for 2012 is 44,321.67. The index is 3.12 percent higher than the index for 2011."
 
      Divide that by 2000 hrs/year   22.16 per hr.  X 8hrs/day.  176 per day 
 14 Employer contribution to FICA    about 8%          14
 60  Decent family medical $1,200 / 20 work days.         60
 17  Retirement plan    may be a 10% contributions          17
 14  Workmen's compensation may be 8% to 10%          14
 11      Unemployment compensation  6%          11
 35         Overhead and profit. 20%          35
327  Per day  40.87/hr.  
Did I miss anything??         
 
 
Originally Posted by Doc Davis:
Originally Posted by Ffffreddd:
Remember the average US employee costs $1,000. Per day.


 

FMH,

 

Please provide documentation for this statement.

 

Thanks,

 

 

Last edited by Mike CT

Maybe we should move to China or the Philippines and save the cost of shipping. Or, if the Middle Class manufacturing job situation worsens, we can apply to assemble Legacy engines while living in a cardboard box. Maybe the next move for manufacturers as wages improve in China is Timbuktu and ship products by camel caravans. The possibilities are endless...as the idea that bringing production back to the U.S will improve anything is an example of a reductionist wish fulfillment..a simple answer to a complex problem that has nothing to do with locations but with management of the location where ever it is..and that has nothing to do with anything we can control as hobbyists outside of finding another hobby with inert materials..maybe Lego or crossword puzzles. 

 

Last edited by electroliner

Enough with the "more patriotic than thou:" as been pointed out in previous threads of this nature:

 

There is an enormous amount of classic, collectible & use product produced by Americans, in America, with mostly American sourced materials, in price ranges to satisfy everyone's budget. That includes the work of high end craftsman in the hobby. (I'm sure participants from other countries can say the same for their domestic economies). Only the unimaginative would feel deprived at the suggestion of voting w/feet & wallet if the current O Gauge marketplace is not meeting their needs or standards.


BTW: We've been here before (in the 1970's).

Last edited by Between A&B
Originally Posted by RAL:

On a semi-related note, a colleague once noted that I wore expensive shoes - he asked me why I spent a lot on shoes.  (Allen Edmonds)  When I told hom the pair I had on were almost twenty years old -recrafted twice - his view on their costliness changed.  Quality is cheaper and makes the most sense ithe long run.  It is not a money issue, it is about getting use and enjoyment from our purchases, and not being aggravated by them.  Trains should be, and at one time clearly were time in this category.  Given the experience I have had, and judging from the length of this thread are not at all unusual, I can only conclude that some level that is changing.

 

Final note:  Frank Vacek lives not far from me, and does most of my repair work on stuff I want done professionally and to a higher standard that what I can do.  A real gentleman.  In any event, he has quite a train collection.  He commented that these newest generation high tech trains like the high end Legacy and Vision Line products will work about 100 hours before failures make them a real mess to operate.  At first I thought that was more his opinion.  Now I think he really knows what he is talking about.  

 

Note to the big train manufacturers:  please work on long term quality.  Trains are not throw away items.

That's becoming a big part of the problem. If you are willing to spend more for the quality product, it (Quality Product) is rapidly dissapearing, if not extinct, and you just pay more for features and usually more problems. It's another catch 22. Products that last a long period of time are good for consumers, good for the enviroment, but bad for the economy.

 

As to the trains, I will only buy a few with all the gismos knowing when the boards fail, I'll either replace them or just put simpler electronics in them. It seams to me there will be a strong market for items such as a simple electronic rev. board, and a product like the AC Sounder. Sure some may get fixed to original, but cost and availability make it more likely they will be downgraded rather than trashed. I'll enjoy them while I can, and then fix them as money will allow. If it means a diode and only forward movement, then so be it. I have to do a lot of extra stuff to make extra money to even afford the trains. On another note, I may not live long enough to have to worry about it. And this will sound bad, but I really am tired....... Too much about the present condition of the world I do not like, and apparently cannot do anything about, (there is a long story to go with that but I won't get into it). I pretty much have given up, I'll deal with it as it is, (world). To quote from a movie or TV show " It's your world Homes, I just live in it".

Originally Posted by Bill T:

I am always amazed in the amount of manufacturing, marketing, and finance experts that post on this forum.

Yes. And you notice how those of us with said experience (in model train factories, both domestic and abroad) steer clear of threads like this?

 

I wouldn't even know where to begin, nor do I understand what you guys hope to accomplish by rehashing the topic again and again.

 

TRW

So,  I am looking at a CTT from january 1994, (20 years old),  the Charles Ro add has the L18010 Pennsy Semi-scale S-2 turbine and brass caboose for sale at $1,745.00.  If you just wanted the engine, it was $1,495.00.  I am sure it was a really nice engine, and probably made in the USA.  The hi end engines have been expensive for a long time. 

 

I think the electronics make today's engines much more complex to built and repair. On this forum, we all know this; its also a natural tendency that when something goes wrong, people (me included) tend to tell others of bad experiences

much more so (perhaps 10 times more) versus when we have a good experience.  The forum is also a great source of help when someone is having a problem,  for solutions, since this is a hobby that requires some level of being a repair man.

 

So, to RAL's original problems,  his experience is a reminder that we should follow some simple rules. First, if we are giving trains as a gift, we should take them out of the box and test them weeks in advance before giving the gift. To Lee's point,the lower end stuff may have the highest rate of problems.  Second, on the higher end stuff,  test them as soon as you get them.  If you have a local dealer, run the engine in their shop before taking it home. Third,  if the engine does not work and is still under warrenty,  send it to the manufacturer or your dealer for repair.

 

On Scrapiron's issues,  those are fundamental design questions that if not addressed will turn people away from this hobby.  At some point,  there has to be a solution for quick and easy repairs.   

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Originally Posted by Jeff T:

I don't want to stir the pot or start a battle, I'll post one comment, my opinion nothing more, and I'm done.

 

Blame the American consumer, we want more for less...

 

Granted there are some that seek out American made but realize that # is such a small drop in the bucket.

 

Sorry to hear of your issues...

 

BTW - Took my Tahoe in for the 6th time in 3 months for the heated seat switch...

 

It happens everywhere...


Yeah it does....made in America, brand new Ariens snowthrower for work...5' from the truck and the drive wheel disc shed an 1 1/4" chunk of rubber...back it went.

 

Originally Posted by Burlington Route:
Originally Posted by Jeff T:

I don't want to stir the pot or start a battle, I'll post one comment, my opinion nothing more, and I'm done.

 

Blame the American consumer, we want more for less...

 

Granted there are some that seek out American made but realize that # is such a small drop in the bucket.

 

Sorry to hear of your issues...

 

BTW - Took my Tahoe in for the 6th time in 3 months for the heated seat switch...

 

It happens everywhere...


Yeah it does....made in America, brand new Ariens snowthrower for work...5' from the truck and the drive wheel disc shed an 1 1/4" chunk of rubber...back it went.

 

I don't try to buy Made in the USA for quality purposes.  I do it because I want to see more Americans get jobs instead of standing on street corners with a cardboard sign begging for money.  The economy is a sham, everything is going up in price, we are being taxed to death and millions of people are out of work.  And we complain and argue about our toy trains.  Go figure.........

 

Steve, Lady and Tex

Last edited by TexSpecial

Tex, I know just exactly what you are saying. I've been blue collar all my life. It won't go away entirely but it sure is shrinking. But fear not (lighter side inserted now). We can grind up all those dead toy trains, and other crud we import from China. Melt it all down. Makes beads. Then we can put people to work making necklaces and bracelets to sell to the Chinese visitors, who come here to look at their investment property............. Hey it worked for the American Indians.............

Originally Posted by TexSpecial:
 I do it because I want to see more Americans get jobs instead of standing on street corners with a cardboard sign begging for money. 

 

Steve, Lady and Tex

The overwhelming majority of those corner sign beggars are druggies and chronic alchoholics and those with serious mental issues, not down on their luck unemployed American workers.

I see folks with signs that say"Homeless please help", I work 2 jobs and this guy supposedly living on the street is wearing a very clean North Face jacket and his tennis shoes are cleaner than mine and he's clean shaven.

Most of them have never been gainfully employed and no amount of industry brought back to America is going to help them.

 I'll give to the guy wearing dirty clothes and pushing the shopping cart full of all his worldly possesions before the other guy any day and they are truly grateful for anything you give them the others cop a big time attitude if you give them a sandwhich or box of Royal Farms chicken instead of money.

If you're going to beg on the street at least don't insult my intelligence by not looking the part.

 

I'm sorry if this sounds cruel or coldhearted but I run this gauntlet every day as I go thru Baltimore and I can count on one hand the folks who truly look like they are on the streets.

 

Jerry

I personally think it's fair to assume something will work correctly right out of the box, regardless of the price. The expectation for the life of a product probably shouldn't exceed the manufacturer's stated warranty.  When you get into engines that are $1,000+ I think expectations of quality AND service should scale appropriately. That's a major purchase and the manufacturer and vendor should treat it as such. From what I've gathered on posts I've read on OGR forum, the real shortfalls are the cost/inconvenience/time related to getting a defective item serviced. That to me is more inexcusable than initial product quality.  Reputations and brand loyalty tend to be created when dealing with initially a bad customer experience and turning it into a good one. That's not easy to do, but it also isn't necessarily expensive either. 

 

On a separate note, I truly believe the next revolution in our hobby will be driven by 3D scanning and 3D printing. That technology, given time to mature, has the potential to drastically lower R&D and production costs as well as bring manufacturing back to the US (or at least North America).  Not to mention the possibility to make small and custom run items very affordable yet profitable to the manufacturer. It's a very exciting time in our hobby. 

 

 

Originally Posted by thestumper:
Originally Posted by electroliner:

... outside of finding another hobby with inert materials..maybe Lego or crossword puzzles. 

 

Have you priced Lego's lately?  I have four kids - stick with trains.  

I believe it. Paper airplanes? When I think of all the goofy things we did as kids, soapbox racers with skates for wheels..rolling down a hill in a truck tire..tree houses..Now it sounds almost like the memories of a prehistoric Neanderthal..What did you do for entertainment?Er..knocked two rocks together. 

Last edited by electroliner
Originally Posted by Mike CT:
Originally Posted by Gordon Z:
Here are the numbers from the Social Security site, which can be found at:
 
More information can be found at this site, but this number is given:
 
"The national average wage index for 2012 is 44,321.67. The index is 3.12 percent higher than the index for 2011."
 
      Divide that by 2000 hrs/year   22.16 per hr.  X 8hrs/day.  176 per day 
 14 Employer contribution to FICA    about 8%          14
 60  Decent family medical $1,200 / 20 work days.         60
 17  Retirement plan    may be a 10% contributions          17
 14  Workmen's compensation may be 8% to 10%          14
 11      Unemployment compensation  6%          11
 35         Overhead and profit. 20%          35
327  Per day  40.87/hr.  
Did I miss anything??         
 
 
Originally Posted by Doc Davis:
Originally Posted by Ffffreddd:
Remember the average US employee costs $1,000. Per day.


 

FMH,

 

Please provide documentation for this statement.

 

Thanks, 

Just did same calculations, only not as detailed as Mike CT.

 

2000 hours a year / 8 hours a day = 250 days

Doubled the salary of $45,000 to add employer costs = $90,000 a year.

$90,000 / 250 days = $360 a day

Now, let's throw in another $10,000 just for incidentals.  

$100,000 / 250 days = $400 a day

Just for grins, let's double that one - $200,000 / 250 days = $800 a day

We have to go to $250,000 a year to get to the $1,000 a day figure.

 

Costs for building, equipment, utilities, etc. are not labor costs!

 

Makes me want to see the documentation for the $1,000 a day also. And how much of that does the worker get?

 

Everyone is always blaming the workers for their problems, when most business failures are actually due to poor management. The workers have nothing to do with it. Company does poorly, CEO gets a few million extra and the people doing all the work get laid off.  And no one complains about the CEO salaries!!!

 

There are a lot of good points made in this thread, from many or all posters.  

Originally Posted by EBT Jim:

In such places as American board rooms, is loyalty to the United States even a minor consideration?

 

(That loud sound is everyone laughing at me. Lol.) 

Loyalty to any country is not a consideration. 

 

If it could be done in the USA then it would but costs right now is just too high. I am only speaking for the company I used to work for but it go's across the board. 

There are two problems with the products today:  The products are made cheaply, and although modelers complain, we do very little about it.

 

I think that if the interiors of trains were made mostly of metal rather than plastic, like the postwar trains, then they'd run much better.  However, in order to make the trains as quickly as possible, and somewhat cheaper, they cheated and use mostly plastic parts.  Actually if I ever get time, I'd like to start making trains completely from brass, by pass any defect in quality.

 

Using metal not only would solve a lot of the gear breakage problems, but it would also add heft to the models and would give better traction.  So it comes down to the modelers, not the company.  Companies would make better products if modelers demanded better.  Instead, we buy something, have it break on us, complain on an online forum, and then go buy something else.  Also, at least in other scales, many people kitbash and scratch build, especially if a product isn't up to par.  What we ought to do instead is that when a product breaks, send it back and tell the company to do better.  If enough modelers do that, eventually the manufacturers will get the picture.

 

By the way, in large scale there is a manufacturer: Hartland Locomotive Works, that makes trains in G scale at a great price.  While most locomotives in that scale are around $400, Hartland makes a Mack locomotive that typically sells for around $50.

And just so you know, it is one of the best 4 wheel diesels on the market.

 

So yes it is possible to build something in the USA, make it cheaply, and have it be reliable.

 

By the way, for whoever said that people only work for the government and no one's and engineer: I'd like to say that I am an electrical engineering student at South Dakota State University along with 30 another Electrical Engineers, 150 Mechanical Engineers, 160 Civil Engineers, and 60 other engineering students, and that's just in my class out of 1,200 students.  This is an agricultural school, and 1/3 of my class are engineering students.  The School of Mines and Technology in Rapid City has about 65% engineering students, and don't get me started on other states.

 

I plan to work for either a power company, General Electric, or for one of the 7 major american railways.  Will many of us work with the government?  Yes, especially civil engineers, but few of us will ever work as a government employee.

 

As for costs, it comes down to life being too expensive in general.  A Consumer unit (think of the average american family) has an expenditure rate of $51,000 a year in 2012 on average.  Roughly half are spending more, roughly half are spending less. This rate is probably 3-4% higher for 2013.

 

If someone was tightening lug nuts for $12.00 an hour 40 hours a week for 50 weeks of the year, they'd make $24,000 a year.  Most of us have families, so not only don't we want to work for that little, anyone who has kids can't work for that little.

 

When I get out of engineering school and pass the major exam, and have about 4 years of apprenticeship under me, I will make about $60,000 or slightly higher.  And the sad part is that I will be one of the higher paid employees in the job market.  

 

All of this is without costs employers spend on employees.

 

Personally, I'd rather be paid more straight out than have more benefits.  I can get health insurance on my own, and I am smart enough to figure out retirement.  So I don't need anyone to do that for me, as long as I get paid enough.

 

If employee costs really are $250,000 per year, if employers paid $100,000 grand a year and then cut benefits which the employee could pay for on their own, then perhaps we'd also spend more?

 

But enough economics, why don't we get back to trains?

 

--James

Post
×
×
×
×
Link copied to your clipboard.
×
×