My Christmas train is running on fastrack on the carpeted floor - inner and outer ovals with the wiring for the inner circle running under the outer. When I decided to adjust the inner track I discovered that it was stuck to the carpet. See pictures.
im wondering what the most likely cause is?
old terminal connecting wire
PRobles with my ZW
the frequent short circuits when my grandkids
Replies sorted oldest to newest
The answer is behind door #3. It’s from an overload, probably from aforementioned derailments. You need to get a fast blow 10 amp fuse inline for your track feeds. Auto parts store will have what you need.
Not to mention a fire hazard.
You may want to consider a fire resistant floor covering and it wouldn't be a bad idea to obtain a small home fire extinguisher rated for electrical fires to keep on hand. They are good to have anyway.
Short circuits would be my first guess. What gauge wire is that?
That wire is way too small for your application. Step up to some 16AWG or 14AWG, soldered direct to the fastback terminals, or attached with .110-.080 female connectors.
Thanks guys. I was planning to get something to run the wiring on or hang it with. Have to wonder why Lionel doesn’t equip with heavier wire
Volphin, I don’t solder. What’s a .110 or j.080 female connector.
OK. I just googled the female connectors you mentioned. Turns out I have them, red, blue, and yellow disconnects.
I’ve not used them as I primarily use blue spade connectors on terminal blocks. (Red being too small and yellow too big fo my 18 & 16 gauge wire).
I understand what you are suggesting I think. Attach it to the place Lionel does. (See photo)
Isn’t the connector you suggest too big for that.
John H.
Regarding the fuse. This is a really small display. I’m building a 12x8 layout in the basement with two main lines and a trolley. I’ll be using the same ZW and a 1032 from 1948 for power. My understanding is that the reason for adding external fuse lines is to protect the complex electronics of modern locomotives. Since I’m running only post war engines, I wasn’t planning on adding the fuses.
If you feel that I should, do I need to provide fuses for each of the three power busses?
for that matter do each of the separate circles on this Xmas train need a fuse. Seems like a lot. I’ve been running these trains at Christmas for years!
A pictures with a thousand words Thanks
Don, the fuse is to protect the transformer and, especially in your case, the wires. A derailment short is like hooking red and black together, which may or may not be enough to trip the transformer breaker. A TVS diode is used to protect newer engine electronics. An inline fuse at each transformer would be easy to do.
Please use fuse's to protect your transformer and wiring. You could very easily have a fire.
OK, John and Feet, regarding fuses (and me).
I am a 75 year old pastor who knows a lot about life and nothing about electronics.
Talk to me at an elementary level about fuses. Assuming it will apply to the small temporary Christmas display, let’s talk about the basement layout.
I’ve laid 5 buss lines: 2 14 gauge for the two mainlines: a 16 gauge for the trolley; and 2 more 16 gauge lines for switches and accessories. I’m using Lionel tubular track, some that I’ve had since I was a kid and a lot purchased from Rich Manthy (Tinman).
I plan to power the mainlines on the A & D poles of the ZW; switches and accessories with fixed voltage from the B & C poles; and the trolley with the 1032. I have no plans for the other options with the 1032 nor would I know how. I’m open to your suggestions on all of this. I’m at the point of completing elevations and laying track.
So, remembering my ignorance of all things electrical, please give me specifics and instructions. What. Where. How. Photos help also. Of course I’ll be happy to receive input from anyone else on the Forum also.
Don
These are the connectors.
They are available from a variety of online sources, including Amazon, in different colors and wire gauge sizes.
You can buy inline fuse holders most anywhere. Cheaper online and the fuses are too. Simply connect the fuse holder between the hot wire coming from the transformer and your track. Another option would be fuse blocks which would give you a cleaner looking wiring job. Type in fuse holders or fuse blocks. Something will pop up. There are books on this subject also. I wouldn't use a fuse over 10amp. Learn how to solder. It's not hard but does take a little practice.
Buy a Weller soldering gun and some rosin core solder.
I have 2 ZW’s on my small garage layout. One ZW runs the trains the other does the accessories. The breakers in the ZW’s is not very good when you use modern locomotives. I have seen many posts on forums that say the MTH Z4000 breakers are much better when using modern locomotives. With that thinking I would think the MTH Z4000 would provide better protection for postwar Lionel also. I retired my ZW’s but leave them on the layout but run the trains with the MTH Z4000
Don- I fuse all my power leaving the control panel including aux power for building lighting, accessories etc. Here is a pic of some of my aux power. I have an extra fuse block section for 4 fuses you are more than welcome to. My email address is in my profile - drop me a line with your address and I will send it of to you. JP
JPLoco, now that’s some wiring. How bout some pictures of the layout. It must be something to see.
JPLoco
your profile includes a “Display email.” I’ve written to you at that address and been rejected twice by the mailer server saying your message wasn't delivered to .... because the address couldn't be found, or is unable to receive mail. Am I using the wrong email address. I’m anxious to accept your offer
Don
My attempts to email JPLoco have failed.
Remembering that I am an electrical novice can anyone give me specific recommendations on fuses and fuse blocks:
what to get and where to get it
how to install
i have a ZW. A& D posts will power the two main line trains and their sidings. B & C will power switches and accessories
Also a 1032 which will power a trolley and (with accessory power) the related 153ir controllers.
total of six lines off the two transformers.
thank you
"Remembering that I am an electrical novice can anyone give me specific recommendations on fuses and fuse blocks":
12 gauge wire fuse protection 20 amps, or less
14 gauge wire fuse protection 15 amps, or less
18 gauge wire. fuse protection 10 amps, or less.
My layout the largest fuse:
3.0 amps, accessory power.
7.5 amps, track power.
Product was available from Grainger. Fuses available local auto parts store.
Below is a link to a set of in-line screw type fuse holders (with 14awg wire according to a review) and a selection of fast blow fuses, including 10 amp, for under $12, I believe.
A 10amp fuse would be placed in the holder and the whole assembly spliced into the red (+) output wire from your transformer. The splice connections can be made with butt connectors, suitcase connectors, Wago levers, solder and shrink wrap, etc.
Hope this helps.
I recommend 10 amp re-setable thermal circuit breaker, one for each output from any transformer you use. I have 6 amp circuit breakers on each and the three from my 3 LW transformers to the tracks. They will throw if I get wreck or or a derailment across the center track and out side track. It is a pain to change fuses every time I get a short. Circuit breakers can be had on eBay. Here is an example, for $9 each.
Charlie
Thanks guys.
Cho Choo, the circuit breaker does look easier to maintain. Will they work on all these buss lines
main lines. 14 gauge
trolley & some accessories. 16 gauge
remaining accessories 18 & 20 gauge
With many FasTrack layouts on carpet during holidays or limited space available it would be nice if Lionel offered a terminal track like the one Atlas offers. Much safer in my opinion.
@Choo Choo Charlie posted:I recommend 10 amp re-setable thermal circuit breaker, one for each output from any transformer you use. I have 6 amp circuit breakers on each and the three from my 3 LW transformers to the tracks. They will throw if I get wreck or or a derailment across the center track and out side track. It is a pain to change fuses every time I get a short. Circuit breakers can be had on eBay. Here is an example, for $9 each.
Charlie
I found and have some 7amps that I use for the mainline which often sees some power hungry Williams and old Lionel duel pullmor motors
There are two sizes of 0.110 connectors. You need to be sure to get the smaller one. I cannot remember the exact coding for it, however you happen to purchase the larger one. I made this mistake myself, as I did not know their were two sizes for the 0.110 connector.
Wow - JPLOCO - that wiring job is impressive. I wish I had one like it. It looks like it takes a lot of planning and expertise.
Yes they will work on all your applications. You may want lower trip amps than 10 amps for some uses.
I wire a 12 to 18 volt light bulb across the circuit breaker contacts, to indicate when the breaker has thrown. The picture below shows the short indicator light bulb below the red lens and the red button marked Reset is the circuit breaker reset button.
"Reset" is for 6 amp circuit breaker (CB) for inside loop LW transformer (the reset button is part of the 6 amp circuit breaker mounted under the panel 1/8 in Masonite panel)
"Short" is light wired across CB to light when tripped, the red Reset button is the actual CB reset button as the CB is below the control panel.
Charlie
im wondering what the most likely cause is?.. with my ZW
the frequent short circuits when my grandkids
Wire too small for the current capacity of the ZW, AND lack of a circuit breaker to deal with the derailments.
This is the simple power supply fuse setup I use with a 135 watt powerhouse brick for the Polar Express train set under the Christmas tree. I know it works, had to replace the fuse twice.
The fuse assortment that I purchased from Amazon came with a supply of fuse holder’s. However it’s no longer available.
The next time you have 5 minutes, take all the trains off the track. Everything turn the transformer on to full, current draw should be close to nil. If you can put an ammeter in there that can tell you if the oldctrack is leaking amps past the insulators. At least slowly run your hand over all the rails, any warm spots indicate a bad section of track. Hope this helps, FM
Reading about the thermal circuit breaker:
There will be a delay based on the amount of overload. Can this be a problem?
also, you seem to be suggesting lower amp CB for ?? Accessories?
@Don Baird, I appreciate you bringing this topic up. I had the same question about the characteristics of the thermal breaker. I hope we hear!
John
Reading about the thermal circuit breaker:
There will be a delay based on the amount of overload. Can this be a problem?
Yes, the delay can be a problem especially with the latest engines. These are the breakers we use on our modular layouts. They are not cheap, but IMHO are the best. I have been buying these off of eBay. They are likely also available elsewhere.
DCC Specialties PSX1-AC 3 & 2 Rail Power Shield Circuit Breaker
Gilly, your added comment about wire size and ZW set off a 💡 in my mind. In the last few years I have given each my four kids starter sets and some rolling stock I received from my Dad in the 50’s. Each set came with a small 80 watt transformer
I was so alarmed when my wires melted that I made new connecting wires for each of them using 16 gauge wire.
Perhaps the original equipment wire provided by Lionel is sufficient for a small transformer and a small layout?
Even so I’ll encourage them to use the heavier wire
Re: circuit breakers vs fuses: fuses cheaper, more sensitive, a pain to replace compared to pushing a button l’ll be running post war engines with conventional power and a very tight budget. And stalling on a decision
Access to this requires an OGR Forum Supporting Membership
