Menards Hotel York Royal

Have you simply tried a variable power supply feeding the building and feed it a slightly lower voltage than the 4.5V supply?  Another option would be a current limited supply, that would certainly reduce the brightness of the LED's.

You don't say how you're presently powering the building.  But let's say you're using the Menards 4.5V adapter with the barrel/coax male power connector.  You can buy a pair of male/female screw-terminal adapters for less than $1 free-shipping on eBay.  This allows you to insert a 5 cent diode or resistor in-line to reduce the brightness.  You might have to fuss with diode/resistor values to get the brightness to your liking but these are inexpensive components.  No soldering required.

This approach doesn't give you the infinitely-variable brightness adjustment if you had a variable DC voltage or variable current power supply as GRJ suggests.

I found the hotel brightness ridiculously bright - looks like a poltergeist is in the building. I tried using both the 1 amp and 2 amp 4.5 volt transformers, respectively, and they didn't work, so I was stuck with the 5 amp that Menards recommends.

I dimmed my York hotel by using parchment paper which I painted cream yellow - I then wrapped the paper (12" x 14" sheet) around the center column of LEDs inside the structure - a bit of challenge due to tight space but was successful - I then used hot glue gun to glue the paper so it stayed wrapped around the column. This reduced the intensity and softened the light to an acceptable level. For the outside LEDs I painted them with the same cream color paint - softening them nicely.

FWIW: I also added 3 small regular bulbs to the lobby interior roof. The building doesn't come with any lights in that location. Note that I had to remove the black paper from the insides of the lobby windows - just had to be careful in removing the paper as its glued to the windows. I am powering the 3 lights via separate transformer.

I also replaced most of the "stick" figures in the front of the building with Arttista figures.

Here's some photos for reference, with room lights on. With room lights off and only building lights on photos didn't come out very well. Building is still on the brightside compared to other buildings (which I like at 10 volts) but its no where near as bright as it was and is much warmer looking.

You can dim it very easily. Use a small ho transformer. Cut the barrel plug in off and attach to the wires from the DC transformer. Adjust power to building. 

Dave

I'd be very careful with the HO transformer.  It would be very easy to exceed the voltage rating of the building as they are capable of far more than 4.5 volts.  You'll be better off starting with 4.5 volts and working down.

Paul Kallus posted:

 

... I tried using both the 1 amp and 2 amp 4.5 volt transformers, respectively, and they didn't work, so I was stuck with the 5 amp that Menards recommends.

This may be a bold suggestion, but if someone has the building, they could just measure the DC current, it should be pretty simple.

gunrunnerjohn posted:

I'd be very careful with the HO transformer.  It would be very easy to exceed the voltage rating of the building as they are capable of far more than 4.5 volts.  You'll be better off starting with 4.5 volts and working down.

John, 

its the best way to light those buildings without having a bunch wall worts. Of course you don't turn the power up all the way but you can adjust it to the brightness you like. Works for me.

I'm sure you can light them that way David, I'm just pointing out that a mistake in setting the voltage could be a costly one. 

Also, this topic is an example where "one size doesn't fit all", this building is too bright according to the OP.  With only one power source, if you turn it down for this building, all of the powered buildings are receiving reduced voltage, it's likely some of them will now be objectionably dim.

That's half an amp, which sounds about right.  25 LED's would probably account for most of that, the little motors maybe 100ma.  No way the building is using 5 amps!

banjoflyer posted:

 

... and visually verifying that the hotel was fully lit up I took a reading on the meter:

So to be clear, this is the same hotel the OP has?  Your method is correct and the 490mA measurement sounds right to me for the quantity of LEDs and fans listed.  Yet, Menards' own product description says it requires the 5000 mA adapter - albeit it appears they have nothing between the 2000 mA adapter and the new 5000 mA adapter.  Paul reported his doesn't work with a 2000 mA adapter.  I don't know what to think now!

Maybe they have a large heater resistor in there as well.

banjoflyer posted:

 

I have a display case illuminated with strips of LEDs from a spool and 6 linear feet of LED strip lights (about 120 LEDs) only uses about 400mA of current.

The LED strip lights operate at 12V DC while the Menards building operates from 4.5V DC.  The higher voltage allows the strips to "stack" 3 LEDs.  The net effect is you only need to provide 1/3rd the current at 12V than if driving 3 individual LEDs at 4.5V.

So if your 6 feet of strip lights were re-wired to operate at 4.5V DC it would take about 3 times the current or 1200 mA.  But then again this is still much less than the LED portion of the hotel.  I wonder if it's possible to imagine "folding" your 6 ft strip inside the York hotel structure - how bright would it be relative to the off-the-shelf hotel?

I get your point about moving the decimal point over.  But I don't think this is the case because if the building indeed required 4900 mA, you would not specify a 5000 mA supply.  You would specify something larger - say 6000 mA to allow for margin.

So it remains a mystery to me as to why the building requires so much power! 

gunrunnerjohn posted:

Maybe they have a large heater resistor in there as well.

By Jove I think he's got it!  Now that winter is approaching you need to keep your hotel guests warm.

I think the specification was just an error, I'm sure that building doesn't take that kind of power.  5 amps would be absurd!

banjoflyer posted:

 

Stan, using the plugs you referenced above I used my cheapo Harbor freight meter (set at the 10A value) and put the red and black leads from (+) to (+) and a piece of wire across the (-) to (-) on the plugs.

Mark, do you have a loose 1N400x diode lying around?  Your EE friend surely has one.  1N4001, 1N4002, 1N4003, etc.

Then you can insert it as shown in my earlier "5 cent diode" photo and see if/how it dims the hotel - and if the fans still spin OK.  If this is something you are up for, I'm also interested in the resulting current and voltage using your HF meter - will draw a diagram of meter hookup if needed.

Hi Everyone,

I'm sorry if our use of the word "requires" caused confusion.

What we were trying to say was that of our 3 transformer choices, the 1,000mA option was too small, the 2,000mA option was too small, and therefore you need to use our 5,000mA transformer for the York Hotel (and World Headquarters).

This does not mean it takes 5,000mA to power the York Hotel. You'll have plenty of power left over to power some less power-hungry buildings as well.

Again, we are sorry for any confusion.

-Mark the Menards Train Guy

Menards posted:

...

This does not mean it takes 5,000mA to power the York Hotel. You'll have plenty of power left over to power some less power-hungry buildings as well.

Your website photo shows only a single-plug output for the 5,000mA adapter.  Do you also sell a splitter to take advantage of the left over power?

Also, can you explain why the power requirement is as high as it is when some other Menards buildings with similar quantities of LEDs and turbine fans require so much less power?

Thank you for chiming in.

Menards posted:

What we were trying to say was that of our 3 transformer choices, the 1,000mA option was too small, the 2,000mA option was too small, and therefore you need to use our 5,000mA transformer for the York Hotel (and World Headquarters).

This does not mean it takes 5,000mA to power the York Hotel. You'll have plenty of power left over to power some less power-hungry buildings as well.

Mark, I am confused. If the building takes half an amp, why is a 1A or 2A supply insufficient? Are these still the unregulated supplies? If so, I thought they were being replaced with a regulated supply to avoid issues with voltage fluctuation.

gunrunnerjohn posted:

Menards posted:

What we were trying to say was that of our 3 transformer choices, the 1,000mA option was too small, the 2,000mA option was too small, and therefore you need to use our 5,000mA transformer for the York Hotel (and World Headquarters).

This does not mean it takes 5,000mA to power the York Hotel. You'll have plenty of power left over to power some less power-hungry buildings as well.

Mark, I am confused. If the building takes half an amp, why is a 1A or 2A supply insufficient? Are these still the unregulated supplies? If so, I thought they were being replaced with a regulated supply to avoid issues with voltage fluctuation.

Gunrunner,

If the building truly takes half an amp, I would agree that 1A or 2A would be sufficient. I'm no electrician, but the building doesn't want to run on those. However, it runs great on the 5 amp transformer.

The transformers are all regulated, so we have no voltage fluctuation.

I hope this helps!
Mark the Menards Train Guy

Mark, could it be a catalog mis-print on the hotel?  Following your above comment about the World HQ building, I can see how the HQ building would need the higher power 5,000 mA adapter since it has over 250 LEDs!

So at a nominal current of 10 mA per LED, that's 2,500 mA or 2.5A of LED current!

Still curious about your previous comment about having left over power when using the single-outlet 5,000 mA adapter.  I've been recommending going to eBay and buying splitter cables to gain additional outlet plugs.  What did you have in mind when you made this recommendation to power additional buildings?

stan2004 posted:

Mark, could it be a catalog mis-print on the hotel?  Following your above comment about the World HQ building, I can see how the HQ building would need the higher power 5,000 mA adapter since it has over 250 LEDs!

So at a nominal current of 10 mA per LED, that's 2,500 mA or 2.5A of LED current!

Still curious about your previous comment about having left over power when using the 5,000 mA adapter.  I've been recommending going to eBay and buying splitter cables to gain additional outlet plugs.  What did you have in mind when you made this recommendation to power additional buildings?

To put things in perspective, the York Hotel still has 200+ LED lights, plus 3 rotating roof turbines. It has the same light tower in the center as does the world headquarters building.

To answer your second question - Stay tuned for our release tomorrow. *Hint Hint*

-Mark the Menards Train Guy

I'm confused about the readings that were obtained that it was only using half an amp, I'd like to get to the bottom of that.

Mark, email sent.

As GRJ suggests there's something odd going on.  If the HOTEL indeed has over 200 LEDs as per Menards Mark, then after subtracting, say, 100 mA to drive the 3 turbine fans you have ~400 mA driving ~200 LEDs.  That's a paltry 2 mA per LED; seems odd to utilize LEDs at a fraction of their capability.  Unless...

As Mark says, there's a central "light tower" in the middle of the building where the bulk of the LEDs reside.  The building is 2 feet tall so you'd want many LEDs to provide somewhat uniform/smooth lighting at the windows without "hot spots."  

Would be curious to see a photo of this "light tower".  Heck, for all I know they use 12V LED strips stuck on to a column.  Typical LED strip is 3 LEDs per 2" section, 6 sections or 18 LEDs per foot.  So a 2 foot tall building could have a light tower with, say, 3 outward pointing 2 foot strips with 36 LEDs each.  Then have a step-up voltage converter module to boost the voltage from ~4.5V DC to ~12V DC.   Even with the voltage step-up module (about $1 on eBay, quantity 1) this might save manufacturing cost since LED strips are about a 1-2 cents per LED assembled, quantity 1.  Otherwise they'd have to manufacture their own LED mounting substrate/board.  I figure their production runs are in the thousands at best whereas the volumes for LED strips has got to be in the millions.  Just musing out loud...

stan2004 posted:

Menards posted:

...

This does not mean it takes 5,000mA to power the York Hotel. You'll have plenty of power left over to power some less power-hungry buildings as well.

Your website photo shows only a single-plug output for the 5,000mA adapter.  Do you also sell a splitter to take advantage of the left over power?

Also, can you explain why the power requirement is as high as it is when some other Menards buildings with similar quantities of LEDs and turbine fans require so much less power?

Thank you for chiming in.

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Thank you,
Mark the Menards Train Guy

I think I need 50 splitters.. LOL..

At $9.99 list, the Menards Accessory kit is very reasonably priced.  I like that they provide an assortment of cabling - extensions, splitters, etc.

If you need additional options, and don't mind mixing black and white wiring, try eBay.  For example:

Yes, these listings generally say 12V as they are commonly used for power distribution to multiple cameras in 12V security surveillance systems...but will work fine at 4.5V DC too.  Search "5.5 2.1 extension" or "5.5 2.1 splitter" etc.  More choices than you can shake a stick at!

If you're rolling your own DC 4.5V supply using an eBay voltage module, or messing with splicing into the DC adapter wiring to lower the voltage (to dim lighting or whatever), you'll find male pigtail cables useful.  Search eBay for "5.5 2.1 male pigtail".  For example - 10 pieces for less than 15 cents each:

Allows you to do something like this (photo from earlier OGR thread):

Even when I dimmed the LEDs in my older Menards buildings the LEDs they've used (to date) are unnatural "white" light - they don't have the warm feel that incandescent bulbs do. It may not bother some but for my layout I want the look of the soft glowing lights at night. Its realistic and nostalgic. Painting the bulbs has been fairly easy, except for the Hotel where I couldn't access the interior.

I tried using a lower voltage power supply (3 volts) and the LED would not light.  

I have lived with the bright lights because it was the only one lite on the block.  Now that I have started lighting the other buildings using grain of wheat bulbs, it drowned all other lights out.

I took the garage insert out and was able to get to the light tower.  I have simply pulled five of the eight LED strips away from the tower.  It looks so much better although the color is still too white but it seems to be a easy fix.

MY QUESTION IS:  Can the LED strips be cut off using scissors without harming the power going to he remaining strips?  I currently have them hidden in the garage but would prefer to not have them lit.

Thanks,

Don

Sorry if this is an old topic but I took apart my menards starbucks and found a voltage reducer. This thing was pure junk. It had a 4.5v in and a 3.6v out to power the leds but the board ate up (I forgot the numbers but) a TON of amps. I completely removed this board and im running everything on 3.0v instead which 3.0v seems the correct brightness. Now its pulling like .3a which is more in sync with the 80 or so leds. Im guessing there is something similar inside the hotel. I have the hotel also but I havent peeked inside yet but Im willing to be this is the cause of the oddly high amperage usage. Brightness can also be reduced by dropping lower than 3.6v also or by using a pwm on it then it could be adjustable.