Menards Pricing ...

I don't know that you can blame Menards for high shipping costs. Shipping has become very expensive. Maybe they don't have a contract in place for the significant discount that some businesses enjoy.
Plus its been quite a while since most (if not all) carriers started charging according to weight or SIZE for large packages.

Not exactly the same, but there are plenty of things I would have tried to purchase on EBay if the quoted shipping costs weren't so high.

The problem is simple - people just can't/won't believe how expensive shipping to the west coast is.

For a small 12x12x12 package - From PA > CA its going to be about 50 bucks...

The bigger the box - the more it will cost. That's called "dimensional weight" - which is how all the shippers price packages these days.

Menards is not Amazon - and trains are not their core business. My impression is they are primarily a brick and mortar store.

But - if you want Menard's stuff, just look on eBay - I've bought unopened Menards rolling stock for way cheaper than you can get it at Menards. Lots of guys buy the dealer packs and sell the rest. Or some horde them - thinking Menards will run out. Or some are just too ambitious - and buy stuff and never use it. It takes about 24 hours between the time Menard's announces a new product and it appears on eBay. For sure - lots of overpriced Menards stuff too! But - in between you can find some good deals.

Gentlemen ...  both CW and  Roving have really valid points.  I'm not being argumentative (because I really like Menards products) - but simply offering an alert and an explanation of why I'll think more than once before placing an order with them.

And, CW, your last statement about e-Bay is exactly the kind of decision I now face with Menards.

Having run a hobby biz that sold 90% of it's product through the mail.....shipping in the last two years has exploded. So you kinda have to throw that out. I don't like the Menard;s 'fee' either....but I look at it this way.....

My Menard's power plant was right at $100 plus. IF anyone else made a structure as big, with as much lighting AND a animated sign it would cost much more than the $100 plus fee. So it still came out a deal. 

All POV

rthomps posted:

Menards products are really pretty good. 

Agree - 100%

rthomps posted:

So, I began the check-out process, and, first, there was a $14 "processing fee" that can only be described as covering part of Menards overhead.  Humm  

I have a Menards locally, and will occasionally order online to pick up in-store. They still charge a processing fee (only $2 for my $55 order). I will say that sometimes Menards will offer a better online price vs. in store. My $55 would have been almost $100 if I would have bought it directly at the store.

I noticed the fee also but the items I buy from them have been well worth it IMO. Sorry to say there are no Menards near me so the rebates are useless for me. It's  not a perfect world but if it was not for Menards I may not have the trains I do. I have bought allot of stuff from Menards that I like and can afford. 

Dave

There is no “free lunch” was a lesson learned long ago, shipping isn’t free.

Buy a single box car from any dealer, near or far, or from this forum or eBay, the least you’ll pay in shipping — actual cost — is about $12.00 or roughly 22% of a typical $55.00 car. If the car cost decreases, the percentage of sale price paid increases! I purchased a used car last night for $24.00, guess what $12 in shipping — 50%! 

I can’t recall any purchase, ever, on anything that did not have additional costs. If one shops only person to person at a show, no tax, there is still the cost of gas driving to the show, admission, or membership in an organization. Shop locally and there is the gas, plus sales tax. Online the shipping, & perhaps sales tax. 

There is no free lunch. 

I can't speak to the 14 buck processing fee because I don't know how Menards processes the orders, are they paying a third party firm to handle their orders, etc. 

With shipping it is easy to think Menards (or anyone else) is basically making up for the cheap price of their products by gouging on shipping, but they likely aren't. While you could expert Menards, being a fairly big retail company, would be able to negotiate favorable shipping rates (it doesn't matter whether they are shipping their sauerkraut factory or a light fixture), the reality is shipping has gone through the roof....and a lot of that from an article I read not long ago is Amazon. Because Amazon is such a huge shipper (I seem to recall more than 50% of the stuff shipped via UPS and Fedex is Amazon, and USPS has a big percent from them as well), they can negotiate rates others can't get, and the article didn't say it, but I suspect that carriers like UPS and Fedex give Amazon a great rate (ever wonder the free 2 day shipping with Prime? That 100 buck a year fee unless you buy few things is eaten up with free shipping pretty fast), they make up for that by hitting people in the general public or lesser volume shippers who ship based on the market rates. As someone said, there is no free lunch, and the convenience of Amazon I strongly suspect has caused general shipping rates to soar (put it this way, the cost of shipping in terms of things like the price of diesel fuel, oil for ships and so forth, has not gone up that much, and actually is a lot cheaper than it was when Oil prices spiked several years ago). 

Bottom line the processing fee is to cover the following,

1 material to pack it

2 labor for packing it, 

Shipping is because how high it has gotten, On the average If I buy something from CA. I'm going to pay around $25 for about 2 LBS not over size. Perfect example I bought a 810 prewar crane and the seller charged $28. Coast to coast is expensive, period. 

On the rebates, find some one who lives near a Menards and do the paperwork but in there name and have it addressed to them and then split the rebate. I presently do this with a friend in Michigan. At least I get something out of. 

This has been discussed in here many times. Your decision, bay $45 for a car and $15 - $25 to have it shipped to you or pay $20 for a car and pay about $20 for shipping.  Personally  I don't mind paying there shipping and handling as I save in the long run. The person who buys stuff on ebay for less than in the store has to be talking about the small flats or something as I normally see it any where from 25% to 50% over the cost for buying it from the store. 

I've really noticed the higher shipping costs after having moved from the east coast to the midwest.  Previously, if I sold or bought something it was to/from someone else on the east coast since that's where the bulk of train sellers and buyers are.  But now that I'm in the midwest and in a different shipping zone, the costs are ridiculous.  It's gotten to the point where it's no longer worth selling many things on eBay anymore just for the shipping costs.  If it has any weight or size to it, forget it.

What really angers me about shipping costs is that the higher prices were justified back when gas doubled to 4 bucks a gallon.  But after gas prices dropped back in half, shipping costs remained the same and we are stuck with them.

Shipping tip/hint: USPS. Flat rate boxes for heavy items, or try Zone A boxes if item is under 15 lbs.  At $6.50, it is often cheaper than the $7.50 small, Flate Rate box!  Heavy? You get up to  75 lbs in FR boxes!  Many shapes/sizes...other than the small FR. Which is small...but try a box, stuffed into the $7.20 padded flat rate! It has the 75 lb limit also!~   Includes first $50 of insurance.  Large FR is not huge, but takes all that weight!   UPS and FedEx have nearly priced the little guy out of shipping with them. USPS can often save one money.  As stated, Amazon gets the break on cost, the average little guy pays for the difference. Shippers have to make money to stay in business some how. They are doing it with the smaller shippers....us included.

Yes, but I have heard big A is trying to form its own shipping company!

Now the one company which has its own transportation network and is selling stuff not in there stores via the net is Walmart.  You might have to pick up at WM.

I think big A's bubble will burst.......

Dominic Mazoch posted:

Yes, but I have heard big A is trying to form its own shipping company!

Now the one company which has its own transportation network and is selling stuff not in there stores via the net is Walmart.  You might have to pick up at WM.

I think big A's bubble will burst.......

That or Amazon will evolve...K-Mart could become A-Mart.

Shipping/handling goes right to the bottom line. It is a money maker as it should be.

The shipping cost is there and the processing fee is probably needed to help with the labor cost of packaging etc as it is not built into the items cost.

To promote orders Menards should look at the discount coupon they are offering for on line items bought to be used in store only.  This coupon could be taylored for both in store and online orders, just have to be creative.

Also Menards are offering free items to help promote online sales helping to make the shipping and processing fee a bit more tasteful.

 While you could expert Menards, being a fairly big retail company, would be able to negotiate favorable shipping rates

Menards may be a large retail company, but isn't their core business brick and mortar retail?
They may not do the volume to get a significant shipping discount.

Many times, when one of them hands me my UPS and/or FedEx package  - the big "2"- drivers and I have commented over the past couple of years, about "how hard would it be for one of them (them being Amazon-which has warehouses/property or Walmart - which has trucks and warehouses/property)......to buy a fleet of trucks and planes, and start their own shipping outfit, limited at first, to major, metropolitan areas for the most profit, the purpose being, to cut the throat of the big two?"

We think it could be a relatively painless step for them. Look up the history of FedEx and Fred Smith. His idea was a college paper (and I don't think it got him a high grade!) that he turned into a business to see if it would work.  Also, one should note the "collaboration" between UPS and USPS that is happening as we speak.

If you get any amount of packages, note that USPS is dropping off some smaller, UPS packages. They are teaming up in some areas.  And, ask anyone who is a small business and ships much, just how much their shipping budget has gone up in the last 2 years. Rising costs are only partly based on energy costs at this point.

They are partly due to small shippers subsidizing the larger (read the big A and the like)  If oil goes much higher than it is, or approaches $100 a barrel or over again, everyone - especially the little guy - will be griping about the shipping costs! For now, the USPS (for whatever reason: subsidies, poor or good management, whatever) is giving the other big boys a run for their money on some shipping with that 75lb limit on reasonably priced packages. And....free boxes, free pick up, and no extra charges if you are shipping to a private residence instead of a commercial entity.  (Oh, and FedEx and UPS will not insure certain items - coins being one of them. USPS will do that. And, they pay off if they actually lose something - which is less often than one would think.  Neither of the 3 will insure cash.)

I had a similar experience this week.  I had 6 items in my cart and the processing/shipping fees were extremely high.   I removed four of the items from my cart and purchased the remaining two.  I was never upset with Menards for the shipping, it's expensive.  The processing fee per item is a little annoying.

If you look at options when you are checking out, you do have a choice how to ship. It comes up automatically the cheapest way. also if you  buy an item that  is not in the warehouse  IE..Lenex Products.. Some items would ship from stores which does make shipping more. But for the value and great price, I think its still cheap..  My two cents for the day..Bob

Menard's is indeed a brick and mortar operation with all the lumber, roofing, tools, appliances, etc. expected of a big box home improvement/builders supply store.  The addition of O Gauge Stuff to their branded offerings is interesting.  An offshoot of their other holiday offerings?  When I visit family in Michigan, I check out the close-by Menard's stores and I only find the train stuff during the holiday period.   +1 on the practice of ordering on-line and shipping to a store for local pickup, although delays in Menard's shipping from a Wisconsin warehouse have missed my travel window and caused long delays in finally getting the order from family members.

Late last year the USPS here in Tampa began delivering Amazon and Priority Mail packages on Sundays.

I would expect the price of labor (the order handlers) be rolled into the prices of all merchandise, not applied in a piecemeal manner.  When I go to a supermarket, no one says that can of soup is $1.00 with an extra 10c to pay the person who puts it in your shopping bag.  The price of the merchandise usually reflects labor costs. 

I have to agree in that with the useless (non on-line applicable) rebates and the somewhat pricey "handling" fee, I now think twice before I decide to buy train merch from Menards.

From what I understand and I could be wrong. When you order on-line from Menards they take stuff from different stores and send it to a staging facility. Once they put it all together then they ship it to you. I have a Menards in my town so I don't have to order on-line unless their out-of-stock and then it will still go to the staging facility before it comes to the store. I found this out when I ordered lighted billboard that had free trees and it was coming from Wisconsin, but was sent to upper Michigan and I couldn't figure out why it didn't just come straight to the store here, but I was told it went to a staging facility to combine the order.  So maybe that's where the processing fees are coming from. 

Denny....this is great! Greg

"Good judgement comes from experience and experience comes from bad judgement

Don't rock the boat if you can't swim"

"Processing fees" are a kick in the pants. Those of us who've purchased Menards items via mail-order buy them because there's no Menards near our homes and because we want the relatively unique RR-related items they sell and because Menards offers promotions fairly regularly. However, if a train shop started tacking on processing fees on top of shipping I think customers would find another store.

Paul Kallus posted:

"Processing fees" are a kick in the pants. Those of us who've purchased Menards items via mail-order buy them because there's no Menards near our homes and because we want the relatively unique RR-related items they sell and because Menards offers promotions fairly regularly. However, if a train shop started tacking on processing fees on top of shipping I think customers would find another store.

Paul this is from my post above:

I have a Menards locally, and will occasionally order online to pick up in-store. They still charge a processing fee (only $2 for my $55 order). I will say that sometimes Menards will offer a better online price vs. in store. My $55 would have been almost $100 if I would have bought it directly at the store.

That processing fee even applied to me with a local Menards which had the stuff I wanted on the shelf. Someone at Menards still had to go around and collect my items, box them up, and place them in the pick-up warehouse. I know we all would like that service to be free, but this is reality.

As for customers finding another store. Menards builds excellent stuff at an even more excellent price.  Who is going to build the giant Morton Salt, Pepsi Bottling, or Power station and deliver it to your front door for under $150?

Yeah Processing & Shipping fees always grind us the wrong way. But head to a car dealership and buy a car without "Document" fees, a train show without an admission fee, or buy a concert ticket without a small facility fee.

Fees are everywhere, and we pay for the convenience of having things done for us, sometimes not by choice.

As always: 

1. Decide what item you want to acquire.
2. Decide how much you are willing to pay for it.
3. Shop to see where you can get it for that price or less, remembering that price equals whatever the sticker says PLUS any fees PLUS any shipping.
4. If you cannot get it anywhere at the price point selected, either modify your decision or go without.

Too many people just look at the price tag/Buy-It-Now number, or Final Selling amount.  You have to train yourself to add all the prices together to get the total. 

If you can buy it locally for $100 and online for $50 + $14 fees + $40 S&H, you are NOT saving 50% but spending $4 more.

Again:  train yourself to look at the TOTAL price and ignore the parts that make it up.  It doesn't matter if the tag says $4 and the S&H is $50 or the tag says $50 and the S&H is $4:   the total is the same.  Why should you care how it's distributed?

Fortunately, we have gotten, I think 4 now, Menards stores in the last couple of years. Seems they are moving South. Don't know about East or West? They do seem to be expanding though, and their stores are really something to see. Maybe we will all have one nearby someday?

A possible return to brick and mortar stores due to shipping costs? 

romiller49 posted:

Shipping/handling goes right to the bottom line. It is a money maker as it should be.

Shipping and handling are money makers? How in the world do you come up with that?

There is no "profit" in passing along shipping costs.

As for the handling, someone has to pick, pack and ship your order. Does that person work for free? NO! What about the box and packing materials...are they free? NO!

Anyone who thinks that "shipping and handling" are a profit center doesn't understand the costs involved in running a business.

As someone who has shipped all sorts of objects worldwide for the last 55+ years (including sewing machines in cardboard boxes LCL from here in upper NY to Puerto Rico - never had one damaged or lost) let me offer a few points.

USPS Flat Rate boxes  are inexpensive as the Postal Service is dealing with fewer than 12 standard size boxes uniform in their markings - hence more efficient (cheaper) to handle.

When an item that won't fit in a Flat Rate box gets up around 20 pounds or more in weight UPS tends to cost less than USPS, and even less if it is shipped to a business address rather than a residence.

Finally there is a third relatively unknown method of shipping those large and/or heavy packages: Fastenall. Yes, if you have a Fastenall location near you and the recipient is also near one, anyone can use their inter location transfer service for much less than UPS or the USPS. Maybe it will take up to a week (usually less) longer and the recipient will have to pick it up, but the cost savings is big.

Of course, secure packaging is a must: items should be wrapped in either bubble wrap, commercial foam of lots of newspaper, and then put in a sturdy box well padded with either crumpled paper, excelsior, foam peanuts, or air-pack. It should not rattle or move in the box.

Some businesses have not looked into the most inexpensive ways to ship, and often make their shipping departments a profit center with excessive handling or processing charges often for tax reasons. It is rather complicated, but was explained to me by a tax lawyer several years ago.  It costs no more to put an item in a box, weigh it and slap on a pre-printed address label than it does to check out a customer at the register and then help them out to their car with some heavy and/or large object.

In "some cases" shipping and handling are absolutely a money-maker. They "pad" the shipping and handling much higher than the actual cost to ship!  I'm not sure if I totally agree with handling costs in general. To me that's factored into the profit from the selling of products. It's like paying shipping and handling at the supermarket to have the butcher  wrap up and hand you your steak.

I think having to hire someone EXTRA to slap on a sticker and put it in a proper place is why they charge handling.   Like many BAY sellers charge more than actual shipping to pay for their time and supplies to ship things.   And somehow I can imagine Menards has more than one person "slapping on a sticker" to send things to us. Everything I have ordered online from them has been shipped fairly cheap !  Heck I got 4 jeeps so far this year!!! : ) 

Jim 

     I don't know about Menard's shipping, but last week I wanted to order some basswood strips from one of the OGR recommended scenery sources. The four strips of wood totaled $7.06, fine. The shipping was $18.66 Fedex Ground. Total for four, lightweight basswood strips- $25.72. It seems to me that four 22" long pieces of basswood could be shipped at under $10.00, but this outfit uses only Fedex Ground. Did they ever consider other shippers that may be able to ship small hobby items at a lower rate, thus possibly creating more interest and more customers?  I guess not. I will shop elsewhere.

OGR Webmaster posted:

romiller49 posted:

Shipping/handling goes right to the bottom line. It is a money maker as it should be.

Shipping and handling are money makers? How in the world do you come up with that?

There is no "profit" in passing along shipping costs.

As for the handling, someone has to pick, pack and ship your order. Does that person work for free? NO! What about the box and packing materials...are they free? NO!

Anyone who thinks that "shipping and handling" are a profit center doesn't understand the costs involved in running a business.

Well Rich, obviously you do not know how to run a business. You don’t pass shipping costs on. If UPS gives your business a 20 % discount on shipping and you pass that on to the customer then that’s your stupidity. Anybody that doesn’t make money on shipping and handling is not doing justice for their company.

Shipping is not a profit center and anybody who uses it as such would loose my business. You can always tell who is fair and somebody that is ripping off their customers.

I have been selling and buying on eBay since the beginning and I charge my buyers what I pay for shipping, no less, no more. 

Dave

Dave, I’m not talking about the stuff we sell or get from eBay or the OGR forum. To me that’s freight recovery and should be expected. I’m talking about businesses that do a lot of shipping. When we buy parts from the train companies and they ship via USPS for 3-5 dollars but charge us $10.00 isn’t that making money on shipping? If they cut a deal with trucking companies and get 35% rate reduction due to volume and keep that in their pocket instead of passing on to the consumer isn’t that making money on shipping?

I always try to avoid these types of discussions, but am compelled to weigh in on this one.
I do not disagree with Rich as he makes an excellent point about good, decent, honest business owners shipping responsibly.
However, it has been my unpleasant experience to see on Evilbay, folks will sell an inexpensive product or a product for way less than it should, only to discover the price to ship the item is astronomical!   Is this limited to one or small number of eBay sellers?  Sadly, it is my opinion that this practice is common on eBay.
In the one case, Shipping is most definitely a Cost Center.

A PLUG FOR MENARDS: What an awesome company!  
In Fort Wayne, IN, I live about 3.5 miles from a Menards store.
It's a fact, I have spend a bundle of cash in that store and have enjoyed every minute of it.
Their O Gauge train products are of the highest quality.

Bryan Smith posted:

I always try to avoid these types of discussions, but am compelled to weigh in on this one.
I do not disagree with Rich as he makes an excellent point about good, decent, honest business owners shipping responsibly.
However, it has been my unpleasant experience to see on Evilbay, folks will sell an inexpensive product or a product for way less than it should, only to discover the price to ship the item is astronomical!   Is this limited to one or small number of eBay sellers?  Sadly, it is my opinion that this practice is common on eBay.
In the one case, Shipping is most definitely a Cost Center.

A PLUG FOR MENARDS: What an awesome company!  
In Fort Wayne, IN, I live about 3.5 miles from a Menards store.
It's a fact, I have spend a bundle of cash in that store and have enjoyed every minute of it.
Their O Gauge train products are of the highest quality.

 

Could not agree more. 

Best way to make out with Menards are with the free items on a purchase more than $19.99. It helps ease the pain.

Bryan Smith posted:

I always try to avoid these types of discussions, but am compelled to weigh in on this one.
I do not disagree with Rich as he makes an excellent point about good, decent, honest business owners shipping responsibly.
However, it has been my unpleasant experience to see on Evilbay, folks will sell an inexpensive product or a product for way less than it should, only to discover the price to ship the item is astronomical!   Is this limited to one or small number of eBay sellers?  Sadly, it is my opinion that this practice is common on eBay.
In the one case, Shipping is most definitely a Cost Center.
 

IME - it is NOT common...but it does happen. And the reason is simple - people are lazy and stupid.

The eBay shipping calculator works wonderfully.

Enter your package dimensions and weight, and the proper postage will displayed for whoever/wherever happens to be viewing the item.

Problem is - lazy sellers can't seem to make reasonable estimations of size - and probably don't have a postal scale - so they just set the postage at a "safe" number...which results in these exorbitant shipping prices. 

Often these vendors - if you read the fine print - will refund the overcharge...ok - but still a dumb practice from a marketing POV. 

But - as mentioned numerous times - shipping EAST > WEST has become very expensive - past the Mississippi - it goes up FAST!