Modern O gauge Casting Failures and Outgassing - The Master List

K-Line

K713-1891 Operating Log Dump Car- Catalog 2005 First edition(housing for control w/ K-line remote on bottom of frame expands, becomes brittle,, a breaks)

May also apply to K712-1891 Operating Coal Dump Car- Catalogs(2004 1st & 2nd Editions)

Lionel CC Niagara 28069. Drivers pitting, loss of paint.

AtlasO 6892 Washington Terminal Alco RS-1 couplers fail

MTH 20-4071 NYC Madison Passenger Cars trucks failing.

Pete

MTH Premier Amtrak Amfleet Couplers Zinc Rot Failure

I consider the early MPC modern painted pass car sets NYC, UP NW etc paint failures if not careful paint chips very easy when handling

Two well recognized issues of zamac failure. 

MTH Railking PRR  3768 Torpedo tender shell casting,  PS1 era.  Warrantee replaced because the failures occurred in a timely fashion.

MTH Premier PRR  P5 Boxcab shell casting.  Specifically the PS2, 3V version.  These can take years before failure is evident.

Bruce

MTH

20-80007B    F-7 ABA Diesel Set - Norfolk Southern - A Units 4270 & 4271 (Paint outgassing and orange peel)

This 2007 Dealer Appreciation Program (DAP) set had 200 production units of the NS Office Car Special (OCS).  Both of my A-units were repainted under warranty by MTH.  My dealer at the time said there were others.  Interestingly the B unit was/is fine.

I have the 30-2717-1 Grand Trunk and Western F-3 A-B-A diesel locomotive set, which did indeed have frame casting issues.  I didn't notice the problem until years later, so I ended up buying another set of Railking F-3s to serve as frame donors - made the GTW set mighty expensive.  Might the problem also extend to other similar engines which were produced around the same time (2006)?

Years ago, I had a NIB K-Line circus TOFC where the roof of the trailer warped and cracked.  Sorry, but I don't have the item number, but it was probably produced in the early 1990s.

Are we sure that the internet is big enough to hold the entire list of modern trains with casting issues?

I started a previous thread on this at the link below:

https://ogrforum.com/...nc-rot-issues?page=1

@Norton posted:

Lionel CC Niagara 28069. Drivers pitting, loss of paint.

Don't forget about the drop deck plate hinges failing on the CC Niagara. 

This is true though they break due to poor design and not zinc rot. Same result though.

Pete

Lionel 6-11103.  The side frames of my tender have crumbled to bits.  I would love another run of the PS-4 Pacific's.

Photo is from the Lionel Website.

-Brian

I have a number of Atlas O steel side reefers.    The bolsters have failed on them and on some also the trucks have fallen to many small pieces.     I also have 2-3 Atlas O  USRA hoppers where the underframe and the hopper doors are failing.    They are swelling up and showing cracks.    At some point they will fall apart.

I have lots of other types of Atlas cars and have not noticed any problems with them.

I would like to add that my  Williams by Bachmann Scale GG1 shows signs casting failure for the trucks. I purchased this used year ago and this issue only appeared over the past year. The metal is starting to flake. I have ordered replacement parts and will repair it when I have the time to do so

Bryce

Lionel

Sold as new between 2011 - 2015

6-12073    FasTrack 1-3/8" Straight Track
6-12026    FasTrack 1-3/4" Straight Track
6-12025    FasTrack 4-1/2" Straight Track
6-12024    FasTrack 5" Half Straight Track
6-12014    FasTrack 10" Straight Track
6-12042    FasTrack 30" Straight Track

6-12023    FasTrack O36 Quarter Curve Track
6-12022    FasTrack O36 Half Curve Track
6-12015    FasTrack O36 Full Curve Track

6-12017    FasTrack O36 Manual Switch - Left Hand
6-12018    FasTrack O36 Manual Switch - Right Hand
6-12045    FasTrack O36 Remote Left-Hand Switch
6-12046    FasTrack O36 Remote Right-Hand Switch

Zinc Pest on Lionel O Gauge FasTrack connecting pins of many different lengths of straight and O36 Curves and O36 Switches sold as new (to me) between 2011-2015.  The problem with the pins (center and outer) having zinc pest is that they swell and become very brittle, often easily breaking off inside adjoining rails.

Here is a picture of the differences in appearance between the older pin and it's 2021 replacement.

My black Union Pacific #844 FEF-3 (6-11131) is showing signs of decay on the locomotive chassis under the cab and pilot.

My C&O #2699 Berkshire (6-38076) has small spots of paint bubbling on the locomotive.

Williams/WbB Peter Witt trolley truck sideframes. At least one of mine has suffered this phenomenon.

Once this list is compiled I'm fearful we'll find that this issue is across the entire line.

It's a matter of who has the misfortune of buying a" hidden"  bad/defective casting.

Do the other scales have regular issues with crumbling trains as well?

Adding to the MTH list: Smoke units. The ones I've seen are in late PS1 engines.

Adding to the Williams list: FA side frames.

Adding to the K-Line list: Heavy Weight trucks and coupler assemblies. Also Heavy Hauler tractor trailer vans.

Well known: Atlas O woodside reefers.

All the above are zinc pest  casting failures.

Chris

LVHR

Edit: Per a suggestion below, pictures added.

I've got some very old Auel trucks that have crumbled spring planks ... 😊

Mark in Oregon

Trucks crumbled on my Atlas 50’ Sargento Reefer.

I have a early MTH PRR RS1 that is showing gassing on the underside fuel tank...I own three of these (all the same all PRR) and this is the only one doing it.

  What I find amazing is I own a fair amount of MTH Die-cast freight cars...boxcars reefers hoppers gondolas and cabooses (63 in all) and I have inspected all of them and found no evidence of problems....yet !

These posts will surely get newcomers to Ogauge trains.

Outgassing,

MTH N&W Unshrouded J

First run of the Erie Triplex

Lionel First Big Boy engine

First run of the W&ARR Overton cars  coupler crumbles

Those are my experiences

Scott Smith

Hey all,

Thanks for the quick additions. I'd like to add these all to the list at the top instead of making people scroll through what could eventually be pages of stories. If you could, please format your initial response as we've formatted the list at the top. That way I can just copy and paste it into the list. If you'd like to tell stories below that, that's all good, just please help me out with getting info into the list.

Thanks,
Derek

@romiller49 posted:

These posts will surely get newcomers to Ogauge trains.

I highly doubt a thread on an O gauge forum about trains that are mostly 10+ years old is going to stop someone from making an entry level decision. This is as much about protecting those of us buying in the secondary market as it is anything else. The Union Pacific 18" Lionel cars for example can be very deceiving as some trucks look fine until inspected with a loop. I've seen more of these fail than I care to admit. Folks might as well know what they're buying at this point.

Agreed Derek, and before this thread goes sideways into the guard rail, this can be a useful list if we just stick to the facts... I know, really hard for some of you, but help Derek out here.

To make the list even better, photo evidence/samples would be great to help people who might not be familiar with the particular piece, zero in on the possible infected areas.

Thanks for starting this Derek.

Charlie

Lionel Dockside Switchers (conventional) - Coupler failure

@Charlie posted:

To make the list even better, photo evidence/samples would be great to help people who might not be familiar with the particular piece, zero in on the possible infected areas.

For other than the most publicized and well-known cases, I actually think it should be required, along with proof the photo is recent (i.e. include a recent newspaper).

Thanks for starting this Derek.

Yes, a resource like this will be invaluable for future collectors.

18134 Santa Fe dummy A unit.  The side frames of the rear truck broke off.  Fortunately I was able to buy a replacement truck and so far so good.

Zinc pest is the result of substandard raw materials used in the casting mix.  Trace this back to the foundries and you will have your answer.

lionel 6-25646 SF “Scout” heavyweight  4 pack truck casting failures (truck side frames not usable, completely disintegrated when run), bought new from dealer.

Lionel 6-25651 SF “Scout” heavyweight 2 pack truck casting failure (truck side frames not useable, completely disintegrated when run) , bought new from dealer

Lionel 6-38081 JLC C&O Allegheny, tender water doors- casting failures, running board warping-casting failure, cylinder exhaust piping- casting failure.

Atlas O 3001001 53’ American express reefer, trucking casting failure

Lionel Classics std gauge 400e blue comet engine, frame casting failures , I do not own this one , but I have seen several examples of this issue at York train show.

Lionel 6-28255 SPSF SD-40T-2 side frames have zinc pest. This probably affects the entire lot, I have seen many examples

6-29115 and 6-25416 Daylight 18” car sets, underbody detail has zinc pest. Hit and miss, of my 7 cars, 2 have crumbling parts

6-21797 Daylight 4-4-2, paint on drivers bubbled. Every example I have ever seen has this flaw

K-line diecast 4 bay hoppers, zinc pest. I had 3 of the Blue Coal hoppers, one of them exploded

The JLC Allegheny in the post above saddens me, I have one of these that hasn’t been out in a few years. Looks like I need to check it. It is one of the nicest locomotives Lionel made.

I’ll try to help Derek out on this one so he doesn’t have to repeat himself a third time. When replying to this thread with additional entries, format the info like he did so he can paste it to his original list above (and not have spend a significant amount of time retyping the information).

Correct:

18374 JLC Silver PRR GG-1 (Casting Failure)

incorrect:

I have a Lionel JLC Series GG1. I think the stock number is 18374. It’s painted silver for the Pennsylvania RR. It’s got zinc rot.

Some older ATLAS O Front Runner 3-rail trucks crumbled apart

Andrew

Hey Derek - Hope all’s well

Great topic - I think this is going to be a very helpful / useful thread going forward

If I can add a little to the MPC 2500 series aluminum passenger car concerns - I do believe some of the “painted” cars had issues however I think the Powhatan Arrow N&W cars are / were OK - I think they are anodized aluminum and not painted

Talk to you soon

Joe

@dorfj2 posted:

If I can add a little to the MPC 2500 series aluminum passenger car concerns - I do believe some of the “painted” cars had issues however I think the Powhatan Arrow N&W cars are / were OK - I think they are anodized aluminum and not painted

Talk to you soon

Joe

The Powhatan Arrows are painted anodized aluminum cars. I have four of the MPC painted aluminum sets, and haven't noticed a problem with any of them.

As at least one other person has reported, I've had couplers crumble on an older Atlas O RS1 (CNW version). Also truck/couplers on several Atlas O Frontrunners. And also on some trucks on Lionel scale heavyweight passenger cars (Southern Crescent no. 25654).

@RickO posted:

Once this list is compiled I'm fearful we'll find that this issue is across the entire line.

It's a matter of who has the misfortune of buying a" hidden"  bad/defective casting.

Do the other scales have regular issues with crumbling trains as well?

Yep - I picked up a small lot of N scale items and got an InterMountain SD45 that had zinc pest do a number on its frame - I was put on a waiting list for over a year, and they eventually ran a new batch of models and Intermountain kindly sent me a replacement chassis.

All of the Lionel Milk cars cataloged in 06. Western Dairy and Atlantic & Pacific specifically. Had a few I opened still brand new and the couplers turned to dust.

My MTH P5a and my only problem with Williams was Zink Pest on the Williams high gloss era trains made in the 1990s.