Mogul Returning Home ?

superwarp1 posted:

Just got off the phone with Lionel. I don't get a refund as in cash in my hand. I'll get store credit of equal amount. Makes me wonder if I even want to bother??

That is worse than the defect.  They are not being reputable.  Definitely not doing any pre-orders.  Sorry for your frustration.

I'm just amazed by the lack of caring or concern on Lionel's part. It's just-  take people's money and move on to the next thing. In a case like this, you would think they would cut him a check on the spot and overnight it with an apology letter!  

"

As for this example, Gary is entitled to a cash refund.  I'd be insistent with Lionel that if they don't refund his money, he will be complaining to his state and federal consumer agencies.  His dealer should back him up, and if the dealer doesn't, there is always small claims court, which usually covers up to $2,000.  I'd hate to do this to a dealer I had a good relationship with, but if the dealer won't back Gary up with Lionel, he does have this option.  A guaranteed win, I'd think.

This is somewhat depressing. We can only hope that Lionel really learns from these locomotives dying and reeling like they did. I know I am trying to be somewhat optimistic, but given the stories of their track record its not likely. I really did want one of these, but other stuff took me away when these were in the catalog. I wonder if they will ever try and run them in future catalogs or call it a day on them?

Landsteiner posted:

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a few examples of product failure or occasional lemon....

Now thats funny!!  😂😂😂

The Mogul issue makes me lean away from BTO and then wait for reviews first.

superwarp1 posted:

Just got off the phone with Lionel. I don't get a refund as in cash in my hand. I'll get store credit of equal amount. Makes me wonder if I even want to bother??

Now THAT is completely unacceptable! I'm sure glad that I had no issues at all when it came to getting my money back for my Mogul several months ago. I did not wait for a fix. After 8 months, I said that was it.

I would not be letting that slide by. In fact, I'd consider being told that I'd only get a "store credit" (whatever that means) serious "fightin' words". That wouldn't fly. I'd be in a full out war at this point if they would not give a refund. After nearly a year and a half, Lionel has been, from day one, absolutely shameful and disgusting in their handling of this matter.

Plus, aren't most (all?) of the locos Lionel is selling in their online store REFURBISHED and not New In Box From the Factory units?

I am done not one more red cent , i have enough trains already to last me 2 life times . IF you want something , the secondary market has more trains ,than Warren Buffet could afford to buy, and in the next ten years or so , there will be more collections with pristine items for sale !!! So take a load off sit down and tip a few cold ones . THINK ABOUT ALL THE GREAT STUFF YOU ALREADY OWN AND RUN IT. Ignore all the nonsense and it will just fade away !  techman  

I am sticking with my Standard gauge(old)  and post war and avoid the frustration. This thread will be closed soon.

I can’t complain as mine came back working just fine.

Gary, I am so sorry that happened to you. Lionel is completely disconnected with the factory, almost like some Chinese manufacturer is making garbage products and slapping Lionel's name on them. It's almost not their product anymore. Lionel should have given you a full cash refund. Sending a defective engine back to the factory, waiting for over a year to get it back, and having a worse engine in the end is beyond unacceptable.

If you ever use that store credit, I suggest spending it on Lionel's new H10 (if you can find one). Mine's been great, and I've heard mostly positive things from others on this forum. Just make sure you get one with the larger CC2-type tender, I heard that there were some problems with the Atlantic-type tenders (but all the locomotives themselves seem just fine).

Update, now Lionel wants to look at it again.  I think they want to know how the SF hybrid sounds got into my engine.  The story continues.

thanks for all the comments everyone.  I’ll keep you posted.

Gary,

They should locate a new replacement locomotive, get it fixed right, test it and make sure it operates perfectly, drive it to your house, open it and put it on your track, verify you are 100% satisfied, and then take you and your family out to dinner with all you’ve put up with! Did I miss anything?

superwarp1 posted:

Update, now Lionel wants to look at it again.  I think they want to know how the SF hybrid sounds got into my engine.  The story continues.

thanks for all the comments everyone.  I’ll keep you posted.

Interesting that Lionel changed their mind HOURS later.

I wonder if this forum discussion had something to do with it? 

FWIW, mine seems to have come back ok.

Richie C. posted:

FWIW, mine seems to have come back ok.

Huh...the level of jerkiness to begin with was inconsistent between locomotives; I’ve heard of some Moguls that exhibited no jerking. Product run comes back even more inconsistent. I hope the year-long wait was worth it.

superwarp1 posted:

Whine is not from the smoke unit.  What’s got me is why would they mess with the tender and change the sounds?  Makes no sense, to me

With the different (ATSF) sound chip installed, I would question if you received the same loco that you sent back. Maybe there was a mixup at the factory and/or whoever worked on your Rutland was also working on an ATSF and just mixed up the innards when reassembling.

superwarp1 posted:

Just got off the phone with Lionel. I don't get a refund as in cash in my hand. I'll get store credit of equal amount. Makes me wonder if I even want to bother??

superwarp1 posted:

Update, now Lionel wants to look at it again.  I think they want to know how the SF hybrid sounds got into my engine.  The story continues.

thanks for all the comments everyone.  I’ll keep you posted.

 I too think you should be entitled to a FULL cash refund, but since you seemed to fully document the issue and if you originally paid by credit card, I would inquire w/ your credit card company for the full credit.  Also, most cards now automatically come with double mfr warranty extension.

Lastly I'd politely but firmly counter-offer the Lionel's "store/product" credit offer with the MSRP value of your loco NOT the discounted street price; stating the MSRP value would be Lionel's showing of customer goodwill, satisfy the number of to/from repair shipments AND the increase in Lionel's prices (both street and catalog) of new replacement Lionel products that occurred over the past 16 months since you returned the Mogul to Lionel.  You lost an opportunity cost to purchase another product in that time frame and gave Lionel a number of chances to make the Mogul work properly.  The fact that it took Lionel 12+months to figure a possible solution which ended up w/ re-engineering components and in effect can be described as a full product recall to attempt to correct the original flaw.

Good luck Gary, in the end I hope that everything is settled to your liking.

TrainMan1225 posted:

 I’ve heard of some Moguls that exhibited no jerking.

 Thats the rumor, but have you or anyone else ever SEEN one that didn't jerk?

While it's far from the entire run there is NOT ONE legacy mogul on YouTube that doesn't jerk.

There are folks that don't realize there's a problem,but they all have a problem.

I'm not buying that the whole run of moguls weren't defective. If most were'nt. There should have been enough to simply exchange them out.

These should have all been recalled just like the waterlogged Pennsy turbines several years ago.

At that time. Owners were given the option of a full refund or waiting for the repair, right off the bat.

RickO posted:

TrainMan1225 posted:

 I’ve heard of some Moguls that exhibited no jerking.

 Thats the rumor, but have you or anyone else ever SEEN one that didn't jerk?

While it's far from the entire run there is NOT ONE legacy mogul on YouTube that doesn't jerk.

There are folks that don't realize there's a problem,but they all have a problem.

I'm not buying that the whole run of moguls weren't defective. If most were'nt. There should have been enough to simply exchange them out.

These should have all been recalled just like the waterlogged Pennsy turbines several years ago.

At that time. Owners were given the option of a full refund or waiting for the repair, right off the bat.

I would tend to agree. I think they all had levels of problems. My Mogul originally was “jerky” but it never locked up. It was missing front wheel set bushings. I crudely replaced them and it was a little better but still not as smooth as my 2 other tmcc moguls.  So it went back to Lionel and I am happy to say it came back running very well.  I can’t imagine being in Gary’s shoes

~Bill